Gronefeld Principia discontinued?

[jcarm981]

Website says that is the case. Anybody know what is going on? Refresh for 2025?

[notknifescience]

Edit: never mind, it says it when you click through to the Principia

[Gebbeth]

Does it really matter when it's almost impossible to get one direct from them anyway?

[ap1]

Hype is gone on these, secondary is the way

[WatchEater666]

They're selling for way less than retail now. I've seen a few on moda in the 20s from reputable sellers.

Very nice watches IMO. The case is AWESOME, same with the hands and indices.

[notknifescience]

I've always been thinking about getting one of these and might finally pull the trigger. Think this increases prices for them?

[WatchEater666]

Originally Posted by notknifescience

I've always been thinking about getting one of these and might finally pull the trigger. Think this increases prices for them?

no

[GB-man]

Originally Posted by notknifescience

I've always been thinking about getting one of these and might finally pull the trigger. Think this increases prices for them?

Watch market 2025

[Bearxj86]

Generally speaking it's a good time to go grey on these. I wouldn't get it at retail

[GB-man]

Correct. I can think of better ways to waste 20k in the Netherlands

[enjoythemusic]

Originally Posted by GB-man

I can think of better ways to waste 20k in the Netherlands

[Gebbeth]

I can’t be the only one thinking the watch is rather plain for it to command that kind of price at retail.

Nicely made watch, but honestly did not know what the big deal was.

[GB-man]

Originally Posted by Gebbeth

I can’t be the only one thinking the watch is rather plain for it to command that kind of price at retail.

Nicely made watch, but honestly did not know what the big deal was.

I think it was like 30k euro on release…then price crept up.

[Calatrava r]

The hype on the brand was amazing. Dress watches, overall, are definitely feeling the softening watch market.

[GB-man]

Originally Posted by Calatrava r

The hype on the brand was amazing. Dress watches, overall, are definitely feeling the softening watch market.

Except journe where it’s the opposite. Sports watches no love. Dress watches lots.

[dchang81]

The thing that I don't get is are they that behind that the order books have been closed for 2.5 years? Id get it if all their models are selling for crazy money, but in this case principias are going for nearly half off...id be interested but at the same time makes me wonder the longevity of the brand

[Ichiran]

Not just Journe but the likes of Akrivia, Rexhep Rexhepi, Roger Smith, Philippe Dufour, Simon Brette, Petermann Bedat, Sylvain Pinaud, Remy Cools, Kari Voutilainen, Raul Pages, Vincent Deprez etc are experiencing the opposite of softening. Their watches are so hard to get and mostly only seen in high profile auctions.

[Ichiran]

In my view the formula to success is increase the degree of hand-finishing, limit production to no more than 30 per year, create an interesting dial design, appear in numerous watch channels, and let influencers do the rest.

FP Journe is taking another route but he can because of his charismatic Resonance and early Tourbillon.

[WatchEater666]

Originally Posted by Ichiran

Not just Journe but the likes of Akrivia, Rexhep Rexhepi, Roger Smith, Philippe Dufour, Simon Brette, Petermann Bedat, Sylvain Pinaud, Remy Cools, Kari Voutilainen, Raul Pages, Vincent Deprez etc are experiencing the opposite of softening. Their watches are so hard to get and mostly only seen in high profile auctions.

Demand for a lot of those brands has fallen a lot. Roger Smith down in auctions and I've seen voutilainen go cheaper than 2021/2022 recently via moda. Not sure this is accurate.

[Ichiran]

Originally Posted by WatchEater666

Demand for a lot of those brands has fallen a lot. Roger Smith down in auctions and I've seen voutilainen go cheaper than 2021/2022 recently via moda. Not sure this is accurate.

Not true. I don't think you are following any of these brands enough.

[GB-man]

You can’t make real money producing 30 watches per year. It’s hard for me to entertain any brand with such production levels but I do understand it’s the world of micro indies.

[GB-man]

I’m convinced nobody would give two craps about dufour outside Japan if hodinkee didn’t spend the better part of a decade blowing him.

Tongue in cheek but still lol

[WatchEater666]

Originally Posted by GB-man

I’m convinced nobody would give two craps about dufour outside Japan if hodinkee didn’t spend the better part of a decade blowing him.

Tongue in cheek but still lol

Yeah, his work is nice, but its nothing you can't get out of some of these other watchmakers nowadays.

[Ichiran]

Originally Posted by GB-man

You can’t make real money producing 30 watches per year. It’s hard for me to entertain any brand with such production levels but I do understand it’s the world of micro indies.

Rarity, interior angles and collectability.

[GB-man]

Originally Posted by Ichiran

Rarity, interior angles and collectability.

I understand the joy that brings a collector I just don’t understand it as much as a business. I won’t rehash the interior angle obsession lol I understand why it’s loved.

[Ichiran]

Originally Posted by GB-man

I understand the joy that brings a collector I just don’t understand it as much as a business. I won’t rehash the interior angle obsession lol I understand why it’s loved.

PD sells 7 watches a year at CHF 640k each. He has very low overheads and no staff. I would say it's a very comfortable lifestyle for him due to the low output and having CHF 4.4m to spend on his recreation and cigars. Not bad at all.

[GB-man]

Originally Posted by Ichiran

PD sells 7 watches a year at CHF 640k each. He has very low overheads and no staff. I would say it's a very comfortable lifestyle for him due to the low output and having CHF 4.4m to spend on his recreation and cigars. Not bad at all.

Fair point.

[ChetBaker]

The Principia does not have any internal angles. A Laurent Ferrier gives you a more beautiful movement at the same price. What may be hurting the brand somewhat is that the movement is strictly not inhouse, similar to LF. I do wonder to what extent all of the currently hot micro-independents design and manufacture their movements inhouse?

[WatchEater666]

Originally Posted by Ichiran

Not true. I don't think you are following any of these brands enough.

Edit: Nvm will let you eat glue

[WatchEater666]

Originally Posted by GB-man

I understand the joy that brings a collector I just don’t understand it as much as a business. I won’t rehash the interior angle obsession lol I understand why it’s loved.

I personally don’t care much about interior angles.

They should be there on a nice watch, but it’s one part of what makes a watch great imo.

For example the Logical 1 is probably my all time favorite.

Beautiful design, amazing “complication”, and high level of finishing. A very good value for what they go for second hand imo.