Omega manufacturing

[Andad]

This bothers me more Brian:

"Omega Speedmaster "Ed White" Calibre 321 Unworn Full Set B&P... for AU$28,107 for sale from a Trusted Seller on Chrono24."

Pre-owned Omega Speedmaster Moonwatch Ed White 321 Limited Release 311.30.40.30.01.001 for sale in Sydney, Australia. Free shipping worldwide.
$31,000.00 · Free delivery

[RW16610]

Originally Posted by brandrea

Thanks guys. Make no mistake, I love the reference and the quality is certainly top notch, I haven’t wavered in that regard. I guess I’m just wrestling with what I thought was an exclusive piece entirely made by Omega. It’ll take some time to let this cink in.

Not to worry, Brian! I totally understand and agree with you.

Originally Posted by Andad

This bothers me more Brian:

"Omega Speedmaster "Ed White" Calibre 321 Unworn Full Set B&P... for AU$28,107 for sale from a Trusted Seller on Chrono24."

Pre-owned Omega Speedmaster Moonwatch Ed White 321 Limited Release 311.30.40.30.01.001 for sale in Sydney, Australia. Free shipping worldwide.
$31,000.00 · Free delivery

My goodness, I don't usually browse those and had no idea.

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by Andad

This bothers me more Brian:

"Omega Speedmaster "Ed White" Calibre 321 Unworn Full Set B&P... for AU$28,107 for sale from a Trusted Seller on Chrono24."

Pre-owned Omega Speedmaster Moonwatch Ed White 321 Limited Release 311.30.40.30.01.001 for sale in Sydney, Australia. Free shipping worldwide.
$31,000.00 · Free delivery

That’s pretty optimistic pricing


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[Easy E]

Ok, I have another question. This may make this situation worse,IDK. Can anyone find out where all the parts from the original 321 came from? Or maybe two questions, how long has this multi-sourced situation been around?

[RolexBHR]

Originally Posted by Andad

Do we know the source of the long metal bars?

"Bracelet making starts off with long metal bars, which arrive at the manufacture pre-shaped with a lengthwise recess down the center."

They also don't mention anything about clasp manufacturing.

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by Easy E

Ok, I have another question. This may make this situation worse,IDK. Can anyone find out where all the parts from the original 321 came from? Or maybe two questions, how long has this multi-sourced situation been around?

That would be above my pay grade I’m afraid. It took enough just to find this information out

Someone like @travelller or @logo may know. Kind of surprised they haven’t chimed in here yet ….

[alllexandru]

This is my take

1) Looking from price point of view and considering how much these watches cost now days it should say what and where are made in / out etc

2) Having said the above I much prefer to point and rely on feeling, quality and problem free when im paying for something, in this regard Omega didnt disappoint me at all.

What is MADE IN ?
What represents MADE IN?
Is this the same as MANUFACTURED IN?

As I see more and more ask chatgpt.....maybe can they solve the mystery

The terms "made in" and "manufactured in" are often used interchangeably, but they can have slightly different connotations:

Made In: This phrase typically refers to where a product is created or assembled. It emphasizes the origin of the product and may suggest the final form of the item or artisan craftsmanship. For example, "Made in Italy" might evoke notions of luxury, quality, or traditional artistry.

Manufactured In: This term is more focused on the industrial process of producing goods. It highlights the production, machinery, and labor involved in creating a product. "Manufactured in China" emphasizes the large-scale production processes typical of many factories operating in that country.

In summary, "made in" focuses more on the final product and its origin, while "manufactured in" refers to the process and facilities involved in production.



My 2cents, I would still buy Omega watches
My second 2 cents, I consider them overpriced as almost anything in our days? YES - same with Rolex - PP - AP - IWC - etc

We will end up paying 20k retail for a diver 300meters

[Cru Jones]

Originally Posted by alllexandru

This is my take

1) Looking from price point of view and considering how much these watches cost now days it should say what and where are made in / out etc

2) Having said the above I much prefer to point and rely on feeling, quality and problem free when im paying for something, in this regard Omega didnt disappoint me at all.

What is MADE IN ?
What represents MADE IN?
Is this the same as MANUFACTURED IN?

As I see more and more ask chatgpt.....maybe can they solve the mystery

The terms "made in" and "manufactured in" are often used interchangeably, but they can have slightly different connotations:

Made In: This phrase typically refers to where a product is created or assembled. It emphasizes the origin of the product and may suggest the final form of the item or artisan craftsmanship. For example, "Made in Italy" might evoke notions of luxury, quality, or traditional artistry.

Manufactured In: This term is more focused on the industrial process of producing goods. It highlights the production, machinery, and labor involved in creating a product. "Manufactured in China" emphasizes the large-scale production processes typical of many factories operating in that country.

In summary, "made in" focuses more on the final product and its origin, while "manufactured in" refers to the process and facilities involved in production.

From a plain language point of view, makes sense.

That being said, for a watch (& related marketing) to "proudly wear" the "Swiss made" text, the watch must adhere to the Swiss federation definition of "Swiss made".

That's why when it comes to watches, I refer to "manufacturing" instead of "made", because a watch can be "made" in Switzerland with 39% of components being manufactured in China. YMMV.

[RolexBHR]

So is it safe to say that we feel the same thing about Breitling, IWC, Zenith, Panerai etc etc etc, or we just hating on Omega here?

[Cru Jones]

Originally Posted by RolexBHR

So is it safe to say that we feel the same thing about Breitling, IWC, Zenith, Panerai etc etc etc, or we just hating on Omega here?

That's part of the issue....Overall, the industry is not very clear on this, other than Rolex, Patek and Moser, all of which make clear statements on their websites or on the Internet.

Looking at your list, from the research I've done and an exchange just today I had with the Head of IWC in France, their bracelets are manufactured in Switzerland.

I would love to know more about the others.

[Tools]

Originally Posted by Easy E

Ok, I have another question. This may make this situation worse,IDK. Can anyone find out where all the parts from the original 321 came from? Or maybe two questions, how long has this multi-sourced situation been around?

You have to go pre-80s.

During the quartz invasion of the 70s, Omega, and others, went out of business. Omega became a brand-name watch and rolled up with a dozen other "Swiss" watchmakers under a single owner umbrella. The Omega facility was boarded up and parts were sourced from several shops to churn out these watches under these collaboration brand-names. The Omega movement factory was only recently re-opened when the latest movements (and demand) were developed. It is likely that Swatch uses outside vendors for some parts on all, or most, of their watch brands.

[Nodzex]

Originally Posted by cuppa_watch

Owner of 321 and I don't care. First there's no solid evidence that 321's bracelets are not made in house. Second, I only care about quality, and so far Omega still seems to be one of the bests. If the quality gets poor, yes I'd be mad.

I work in engineering and this is a common practice. Gay Frères has been making Rolex bracelets for decades.

As for the price, if Omega does everything in house, I'm sure the price would be even higher and many of us would be even more unhappy. It's a public company, and their margin (albeit at the group level, not for each brand) is all there for people to see.

In all, I'd rather see them focus their spending on things like designers, material, finish, and not on things like who manufacturers it. They should have the freedom to pick the supplier with the highest finish and quality, and lowest price, like every other industrial products manufacturer.

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I 2nd this!

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by brandrea

Thank you for your perspective

I did confirm with Omega just this morning. They do not manufacture bracelets or clasps. They are sourced from approved third party suppliers as in the OP.

You can read about it here: scroll to bottom of page 4

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthre...=972706&page=4

Originally Posted by Nodzex

I 2nd this!

Have a read above

Again, Omega does not manufacture bracelets or clasps.

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by RolexBHR

So is it safe to say that we feel the same thing about Breitling, IWC, Zenith, Panerai etc etc etc, or we just hating on Omega here?

Certainly not hating on Omega whatsoever. I own a 321 and love everything about the reference. I’d go so far as to say it’s the prefect chronograph (for me).

The thread is intended to gauge how it makes owners or the watch enthusiasts in general “feel” knowing that the brand outsources what I would call major components from “mainly Europe” possibly elsewhere.

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by alllexandru

This is my take

1) Looking from price point of view and considering how much these watches cost now days it should say what and where are made in / out etc

2) Having said the above I much prefer to point and rely on feeling, quality and problem free when im paying for something, in this regard Omega didnt disappoint me at all.

What is MADE IN ?
What represents MADE IN?
Is this the same as MANUFACTURED IN?

As I see more and more ask chatgpt.....maybe can they solve the mystery

The terms "made in" and "manufactured in" are often used interchangeably, but they can have slightly different connotations:

Made In: This phrase typically refers to where a product is created or assembled. It emphasizes the origin of the product and may suggest the final form of the item or artisan craftsmanship. For example, "Made in Italy" might evoke notions of luxury, quality, or traditional artistry.

Manufactured In: This term is more focused on the industrial process of producing goods. It highlights the production, machinery, and labor involved in creating a product. "Manufactured in China" emphasizes the large-scale production processes typical of many factories operating in that country.

In summary, "made in" focuses more on the final product and its origin, while "manufactured in" refers to the process and facilities involved in production.



My 2cents, I would still buy Omega watches
My second 2 cents, I consider them overpriced as almost anything in our days? YES - same with Rolex - PP - AP - IWC - etc

We will end up paying 20k retail for a diver 300meters

I appreciate hearing from you Alex … attending therapy as we speak

[brandrea]

Of course there are other folks who tend to either disagree / report without fact checking / or maybe Omega customer service doesn’t know?

https://www.swisswatchexpo.com/thewa...-watches-made/




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[brandrea]

I think we need to get Jose on the case


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[Rolex tom]

The Swiss made debate is fair game given how loose the term is but its totally unreasonable to expect any of these brands to make absolutely every component in-house, we don't judge a £40,000 Mercedes or a £300,000 Rolls Royce for not making everything in house so why expect it of a watch brand? Contractors have been used in watchmaking for centuries and in modern watchmaking circa 1900 always.

I'd prefer in Switzerland or Europe but quality is always king regardless of origin

One thing I will add is recently exchanged a bracelet on a JLC reverso and the end links were stamped MADE IN FRANCE so points for honesty there

[Mach]

Originally Posted by brandrea

Now we know …

Omega outsources bracelets and clasps from “carefully selected external suppliers who meet Omega’s high-quality standards” sourced from “mainly European countries”.

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=972706

The question I have for the Omega community and in my specific case, owners of the 321 Ed White …

Does this change the way you “feel” about your Omega timepiece?

When I bought my 321 a couple of years ago it was a highly emotional purchase. Of course much has been written about the 321. The history, the lengths that Omega went to recreate the movement, the hand assembly in Bienne etc etc.

Separate from this is of course the “ price” which has been a much debated aspect of this reference and one I’ve defended.

Realizing everyone has their own reasons for owning any given reference, does the fact that Omega does not manufacture its own bracelets and claps (especially on a reference of this stature and price point) change how you feel about ownership?

Whether you own a 321 or another Omega, I’m interested in the conversation.


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I've always been suspicious of what the term, "Swiss Made" truly entails, Brain. Prior to the internet, how often did we question this notion? The lack of full transparency from the Swiss doesn't help either.

Originally Posted by brandrea

I guess this is all new to me my friend, and perhaps I am overthinking it.

Borrowed from @cru jones

Here is what qualifies a watch as being "Swiss made" according to the the Federation of the Swiss Watch Industry FH (https://www.fhs.swiss/eng/whoweare.html):

"Art. 1a Definition of the Swiss watch

A watch is to be regarded as a Swiss watch if:

a. its technical development has taken place in Switzerland;
1. in the case of exclusively mechanical watches, at least the mechanical
construction and prototyping of the watch as a whole,

2. in the case of watches that are not exclusively mechanical, at least the
mechanical construction and prototyping of the watch as a whole, together
with the conception of the printed circuit or circuits, the display and the
software;
a bis. its movement is Swiss;

b. its movement has been cased up in Switzerland;

c. final inspection by the manufacturer took place in Switzerland and

d. at least 60% of the manufacturing costs is generated in Switzerland"

(https://www.fhs.swiss/file/8/Guide_FH_v.5_en.pdf)

… but it’s somewhat disappointing to to me, to learn that this reference isn’t at least made with components coming 100% from Switzerland at this price point.

From my research, the last time these legal terms were updated was January 1, 2017. Another debate I've been seeing on various forums is 'hand-made' vs "machine-made' and what constitutes the differences. Once again, my suspicions would have me believe that these are loose terms as well, which just may make people more upset the more we dig into a specific brand's manufacturing process.

Since bracelets were brought up, I thought it was interesting to see 'Italy' on the standard bracelet for my 60th Anniversary James Bond Seamster:


And then you have 'France' on the bracelet for my Silver Snoopy Speedy:


It's funny how neither of these packages state "Made in . . ." But at the end of the day, it doesn't change how I feel about my Omega pieces. I still love my Ed White Calibre 321!

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by Mach

I've always been suspicious of what the term, "Swiss Made" truly entails, Brain. Prior to the internet, how often did we question this notion? The lack of full transparency from the Swiss doesn't help either.



From my research, the last time these legal terms were updated was January 1, 2017. Another debate I've been seeing on various forums is 'hand-made' vs "machine-made' and what constitutes the differences. Once again, my suspicions would have me believe that these are loose terms as well, which just may make people more upset the more we dig into a specific brand's manufacturing process.

Since bracelets were brought up, I thought it was interesting to see 'Italy' on the standard bracelet for my 60th Anniversary James Bond Seamster:


And then you have 'France' on the bracelet for my Silver Snoopy Speedy:


It's funny how neither of these packages state "Made in . . ." But at the end of the day, it doesn't change how I feel about my Omega pieces. I still love my Ed White Calibre 321!
]

Great post Mark, and lovely shot of your 321

I’m still trying to determine which country (at least) the flat link 321 bracelet and clasp is manufactured in. I sent another email to Omega headquarters last week but haven’t heard anything back …

I’m leaning towards “somewhere in Europe” but not Switzerland … who knows.

Is it important to know … I guess for me it is. I’d just like to know where the main components are manufactured.

When I bought this reference, I assumed everything was manufactured at their Bienne workshop. Now it would appear that this just refers to the case, dial and movement.

Hoping to update here if I hear anything back

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by Rolex tom

The Swiss made debate is fair game given how loose the term is but its totally unreasonable to expect any of these brands to make absolutely every component in-house, we don't judge a £40,000 Mercedes or a £300,000 Rolls Royce for not making everything in house so why expect it of a watch brand? Contractors have been used in watchmaking for centuries and in modern watchmaking circa 1900 always.

I'd prefer in Switzerland or Europe but quality is always king regardless of origin

One thing I will add is recently exchanged a bracelet on a JLC reverso and the end links were stamped MADE IN FRANCE so points for honesty there

Yes indeed, transparency is nice. Kudos to them

[cuppa_watch]

Originally Posted by brandrea

Great post Mark, and lovely shot of your 321



I’m still trying to determine which country (at least) the flat link 321 bracelet and clasp is manufactured in. I sent another email to Omega headquarters last week but haven’t heard anything back …



I’m leaning towards “somewhere in Europe” but not Switzerland … who knows.



Is it important to know … I guess for me it is. I’d just like to know where the main components are manufactured.



When I bought this reference, I assumed everything was manufactured at their Bienne workshop. Now it would appear that this just refers to the case, dial and movement.



Hoping to update here if I hear anything back

If you want to know everything, there are other things that are commonly outsourced: crystals, hands, jewels, lubricant, springbars, pins, lume, coating, etc.

You may also want to know where they buy their steel from. Since the quality such as pitting resistance varies a lot between steel suppliers for the same grade of 316L, and high quality ones are much more expensive.

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[brandrea]

Originally Posted by cuppa_watch

If you want to know everything, there are other things that are commonly outsourced: crystals, hands, jewels, lubricant, springbars, pins, lume, coating, etc.

You may also want to know where they buy their steel from. Since the quality such as pitting resistance varies a lot between steel suppliers for the same grade of 316L, and high quality ones are much more expensive.

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Well that would be an impossible rabbit hole

I’m really mostly interested with the major components as described earlier.

[Tools]

Originally Posted by brandrea

. . .

I’m still trying to determine which country (at least) the flat link 321 bracelet and clasp is manufactured in. I sent another email to Omega headquarters last week but haven’t heard anything back …

I’m leaning towards “somewhere in Europe” but not Switzerland … who knows.

Is it important to know … I guess for me it is. I’d just like to know where the main components are manufactured.

When I bought this reference, I assumed everything was manufactured at their Bienne workshop. Now it would appear that this just refers to the case, dial and movement.

Hoping to update here if I hear anything back

It would be nice if folks would spend as much time on Omega (and others) researching these interesting tid-bits and compiling them like we do for Rolex.

When I had my fathers old Omega Seamaster rebuilt I did go out of the way to have an Omega leather strap, and ensure that the crystal had the Omega sigil stamped in it. Now I wonder where these parts actually came and were made from.

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by Tools

It would be nice if folks would spend as much time on Omega (and others) researching these interesting tid-bits and compiling them like we do for Rolex.

When I had my fathers old Omega Seamaster rebuilt I did go out of the way to have an Omega leather strap, and ensure that the crystal had the Omega sigil stamped in it. Now I wonder where these parts actually came and were made from.

Attachment 1483244

That’s a great looking reference, what a keepsake

It would be so nice to know, but it would appear there is a bit of mystery surrounding where parts are sourced.

It would appear modern references have their cases, dials, hands, movements made in Bienne, but the other odds and sods are from parts unknown.

In the case of older references I really have no clue.


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