Are you ok with "Swiss made" watches having Chinese-made parts?

[Cru Jones]

Many thanks, Brian, for following up.

Cliff notes version: Omega outsources bracelets and clasps "from carefully selected external suppliers who meet [Omega's] high-quality standard" sourced "mainly from European countries".

Up to each person to decide whether that's ok for them. At least now there's some transparency regarding Omega.

Now about all those other "Swiss made" manufacturers.... Who wants to be the private investigator for VC or JLC, for example?

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by Cru Jones

Many thanks, Brian, for following up.

Cliff notes version: Omega outsources bracelets and clasps "from carefully selected external suppliers who meet [Omega's] high-quality standard" sourced "mainly from European countries".

Up to each person to decide whether that's ok for them. At least now there's some transparency regarding Omega.

Now about all those other "Swiss made" manufacturers.... Who wants to be the private investigator for VC or JLC, for example?

You’re welcome my friend

“Transparency”

I’m not sure whether to thank you or use the “ignore” feature here for you from now on, for fear of what else might be uncovered

[Cru Jones]

Originally Posted by brandrea

You’re welcome my friend

“Transparency”

I’m not sure whether to thank you or use the “ignore” feature here for you from now on, for fear of what else might be uncovered

Well, technically, you are the one who wrote to Omegal! Maybe I should "ignore" you??

Luckily that beautiful 321 is on your wrist. Take a moment, admire the movement, and think about all this later.

[Duke Nukem]

Originally Posted by brandrea

Well it took some doing but here is the official response from Omega regarding its bracelet and clasp manufacturing



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BOOM! Confirmed our suspicions all along. Note how they didn't say where those external suppliers are as significant production is done outside the EU. These producers aren't under the Swatch Group.

Doesn't mean you shouldn't enjoy your 321 any less, but the added transparency is beneficial to all.

Omega's website advertising is blatantly false with "every part of an Omega watch is made in Switzerland". Perhaps omar-rye will come out of his Omega 100% made in Switzerland bubble now.

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by Duke Nukem

BOOM! Confirmed our suspicions all along. Note how they didn't say where those external suppliers are as significant production is done outside the EU. These producers aren't under the Swatch Group.

Doesn't mean you shouldn't enjoy your 321 any less, but the added transparency is beneficial to all.

Perhaps omar-rye will come out of his Omega 100% made in Switzerland bubble now.

I started a thread over in the Omega Forum. Hoping to get some constructive comments …. Errrr validation


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[Duke Nukem]

Originally Posted by brandrea

I started a thread over in the Omega Forum. Hoping to get some constructive comments …. Errrr validation


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I looked over there and couldn't find it. Do you have a link?

Great job, again. I'm half shocked they openly admitted in writing they don't produce them.

Edit: Nvm, I realized you posted in the Omega sub-forum here. I thought you meant the actual Omega Forums site.

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by Duke Nukem

I looked over there and couldn't find it. Do you have a link?

Great job, again. I'm half shocked they openly admitted in writing they don't produce them.

Edit: Nvm, I realized you posted in the Omega sub-forum here. I thought you meant the actual Omega Forums site.

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[RW16610]

Thanks for looking into this and sharing that update, Brian!

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by RW16610

Thanks for looking into this and sharing that update, Brian!

[DoricSpiker]

I am a bit late to this one but I wholeheartedly agree with the sentiment that a part being made elsewhere is not really a big deal, it has been going on for a long time, but reassurance should be given that the parts have been produced ethically and humanely.
I also agree that some of the text Omega have been using is misleading but that has been going on with lots of Swiss manufacturers for decades. These manufacturers therefore have no problem doing it, it has become legitimised in their eyes.

[Duke Nukem]

Originally Posted by omar-rye

How so? I re-read their statement multiple times and couldn’t reach that conclusion. My only remaining question is whether the bracelets and clasps are included in the “watch” they described as “developed, produced, assembled, and tested in Switzerland” under the same standards.

Earth to omar-rye. Waiting for an attempted witty response in trying to defend Omega's 100% made in Switzerland claim after brandrea's email below.

Originally Posted by brandrea

Well it took some doing but here is the official response from Omega regarding its bracelet and clasp manufacturing




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[Alex_TA]

People are buying fake parts and draw conclusions. Others copy pasting it.


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[omar-rye]

Originally Posted by Duke Nukem

BOOM! Confirmed our suspicions all along. Note how they didn't say where those external suppliers are as significant production is done outside the EU. These producers aren't under the Swatch Group.

Doesn't mean you shouldn't enjoy your 321 any less, but the added transparency is beneficial to all.

Omega's website advertising is blatantly false with "every part of an Omega watch is made in Switzerland". Perhaps omar-rye will come out of his Omega 100% made in Switzerland bubble now.

What are you on? Aren’t you the genius who insinuated that most of Omega is made in China? When did I say 100% of Omega is made in Switzerland? The last thing I said in this thread was this: :



Thank you Brian for getting that part clarified

[Duke Nukem]

Originally Posted by omar-rye

What are you on? Aren’t you the genius who insinuated that most of Omega is made in China? When did I say 100% of Omega is made in Switzerland? The last thing I said in this thread was this: :

Thank you Brian for getting that part clarified

Try re-reading my post again. I said Omega's claim of 100% made in Switzerland that you pulled from their website and were defending elsewhere in this thread.

Originally Posted by omar-rye

There’s only one “source” that posted a receipt showing a half link with China listed as the origin. I’d hardly consider that hard evidence, so let’s not go around presenting that as fact. I’ve looked at every photo users have posted, and each one lists a different country. Are we really expected to believe Omega has factories making bracelets and parts in China, Thailand, Germany, Italy, France, and so on? Why wouldn’t they just manufacture it all in Asia? I can’t imagine it’s cheaper to produce in Germany, Italy, or France than in Switzerland. Something doesn’t add up. But I’m still open to be convinced otherwise. I did email Omega yesterday for clarification, so we’ll see if they get back to me with a clear answer.

I personally bought a Speedmaster in person from Swatch Group at 555 Richmond in Toronto, and it didn’t have any country of origin listed on the packaging. I also have an Omega buckle I purchased a few years ago that didn’t have a country of origin on the packaging. Furthermore, Archer, a top notch and trustworthy Omega watchmaker I know and have worked with personally, pointed out that he has $50k worth of Omega parts, and none of them show the country of origin on the label. I trust him and Omega’s statement on their site more than some random posts on Watchuseek.

Lastly, I had a Datejust serviced at RSC in February 2023, and it’s since gone in for warranty repair for the same issue four or five times. I dropped it off last Thursday, and it’s currently with them for repair. I’d be happy to post documentation for transparency sake. I’m sure many others could share similar experiences with Rolex warranty repairs. Let’s not generalize Omega or its service work based on isolated cases like yours, and I won’t do the same for Rolex.

Thailand


Italy

Germany


France


Italy


France

Going by Omega's response and confirmation, yes, we are expected to believe so that they are made in elsewhere, including Asia.

Originally Posted by omar-rye

Actually, they still have the wording “Every part of an OMEGA watch is made in Switzerland, which goes far beyond the industry’s required standard” on their site.

[omar-rye]

Originally Posted by Duke Nukem

Try re-reading my post again. I said Omega's claim of 100% made in Switzerland that you pulled from their website and were defending elsewhere in this thread.

Lol nice try backpedaling. You obviously got offended a few days ago, which is why you posted two comments today singling me out and accusing me of being in a “bubble”. I’m not going to waste any more time with you. Have a good day my friend

[omar-rye]

Originally Posted by Duke Nukem

Try re-reading my post again. I said Omega's claim of 100% made in Switzerland that you pulled from their website and were defending elsewhere in this thread.



Going by Omega's response and confirmation, yes, we are expected to believe so that they are made in elsewhere, including Asia.

I was just going off the information we had at hand at the time, then some members and I took the initiative to contact Omega directly and got the full picture. You’re welcome.

[Duke Nukem]

Originally Posted by omar-rye

Lol nice try backpedaling. You obviously got offended a few days ago, which is why you posted two comments today singling me out and accusing me of being in a “bubble”. I’m not going to waste any more time with you. Have a good day my friend

Must be hard being incorrect this whole time. I can't imagine the frustration of paying full retail for a new Speedmaster from the boutique and finding this out afterwards. How dare Omega lie to you.

Me offended? I claimed they were made in Asia this whole time that you tried to refute. Sounds like something a denier would say.

Originally Posted by Duke Nukem

This is why Rolex is superior because they've vertically integrated their entire production supply throughout Switzerland. Sure, some of the raw metals may come from outside the country, but the foundry, design, and assembly all take place in Switzerland.

Any of the other swiss watch brands that belong to a luxury conglomerate (Swatch, Richemont, LVMH, etc.) will have parts made elsewhere.

The Omega parts made in China/Thailand, etc. has been well known for a long time but there's still some deniers out there. I've ordered parts straight from the Omega boutique near me and they even acknowledged that parts are produced outside of Switzerland especially since the packaging states the country of production (China/Thailand). Omega abuses the "Swiss-Made" loopholes.

[rajurama]

Makes me wonder what part of my Moon Swatch is not made in Asia

[enjoythemusic]

So.... time for H. Moser for those who desire Swiss made timepieces :)

[stockae92]

depends on price segment. I bet there are more "swiss made' watches with majority of the part made and finish in China than we know.

I would prefer not to have swiss made watch containing parts from other countries. but the reality is that the definition of "swiss made" is far from that, very far actually.

[Paul C]

Good article on this topic released today. In summary there are loopholes in the 'Swiss Made' mark. Some watch companies use components produced elsewhere such as China mainly because of scaling as China has bigger factories. Takeaway: Holy Trinity are strict with the 'Swiss Made' mark.

See link, https://robbreport.com/style/watch-c...ch-1236164753/

[enjoythemusic]

Originally Posted by Paul C

Takeaway: Holy Trinity are strict with the 'Swiss Made' mark.

Agreed, the Modern Holy Trinity of MB&F, H. Moser, and Rexhep Rexhepi are truly Swiss made

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by Paul C

Good article on this topic released today. In summary there are loopholes in the 'Swiss Made' mark. Some watch companies use components produced elsewhere such as China mainly because of scaling as China has bigger factories. Takeaway: Holy Trinity are strict with the 'Swiss Made' mark.

See link, https://robbreport.com/style/watch-c...ch-1236164753/

Thanks for posting this

Transparency would go along way IMHO.

[RW16610]

Originally Posted by Paul C

Good article on this topic released today. In summary there are loopholes in the 'Swiss Made' mark. Some watch companies use components produced elsewhere such as China mainly because of scaling as China has bigger factories. Takeaway: Holy Trinity are strict with the 'Swiss Made' mark.

See link, https://robbreport.com/style/watch-c...ch-1236164753/

Thanks for sharing this.

[Paul C]

Originally Posted by enjoythemusic

Agreed, the Modern Holy Trinity of MB&F, H. Moser, and Rexhep Rexhepi are truly Swiss made

I see what you did there. I like it!

Originally Posted by brandrea

Thanks for posting this

Transparency would go along way IMHO.

Originally Posted by RW16610

Thanks for sharing this.

You're welcome!

[dakkonmc]

Originally Posted by ChetBaker

Nope. There’s many reasons why I would not but primarily it would be for China’s manufacturing reputation for mass produced, low cost and low quality.

That's such a ridiculous take

China is currently the biggest manufacturer in the world. They can produce high-end products and cheap products. IPhone is almost 60% in the market share in the US. I think most of us would agree that iPhone is considered a higher-end product.

I hope more watch brands utilize the best possible supplier to help them make the best watch. Inside or outside of Switzerland.

[ChetBaker]

Originally Posted by dakkonmc

That's such a ridiculous take

China is currently the biggest manufacturer in the world. They can produce high-end products and cheap products. IPhone is almost 60% in the market share in the US. I think most of us would agree that iPhone is considered a higher-end product.

I hope more watch brands utilize the best possible supplier to help them make the best watch. Inside or outside of Switzerland.

Sure they can produce high-end products, but that’s not what their reputation is for. And a single example of a higher-end product does nothing to take away the literally tens of thousands of cheap, low quality stuff they’re pushing out across the world. The EU has been suffering from years of extremely cheap Chinese products flooding our markets, and we’re now finally trying to turn the tide by introducing tax measures to make these imports less attractive. I think this is a great thing.

[rajurama]

Originally Posted by dakkonmc

That's such a ridiculous take

China is currently the biggest manufacturer in the world. They can produce high-end products and cheap products. IPhone is almost 60% in the market share in the US. I think most of us would agree that iPhone is considered a higher-end product.

I hope more watch brands utilize the best possible supplier to help them make the best watch. Inside or outside of Switzerland.

Iphone , Tesla , other 90% of consumer products are accepted made in china or asia but you really think an official Rolex / Omega or any 'Swiss' origin brand even though same quality but Made in China/or anywhere other than Swiss will ever be accepted? I doubt hence we have this thread and majority of mechanical watch buyers would want their watch to be made in Switzerland as thats deep rooted connection with this hobby.

I would want the brand origin and manufacture from same country it could be Switzerland, China or Japan.

[enjoythemusic]

Originally Posted by Paul C

I see what you did there. I like it!

We need to get magazine editors and owners knowing that the Modern Holy Trinity is MB&F, H. Moser, and Rexhep Rexhepi. Spread the word far and wide

[brandrea]

I’ve had a lot of time to digest this …

To me, it all boils down to the Swiss watch industry’s definition of Swiss Made and how different manufacturers choose to play between the lines of that definition.

I was naive in thinking “Swiss Made” meant everything was made in Switzerland. I honestly didn’t have a clue and I’ve been in this hobby my whole life. Should I have to ask? Should I have to research what “Swiss Made” really means?

I honestly still don’t know how I feel about it. I’ve reached out to people whose opinions I respect, and for the most part, they tell me that this is just the way Swiss watchmaking works. They tell me very few brands actually build watches at scale entirely in Switzerland. That it’s just always been a case that Swiss brands “outsource” components. Again, I’m not talking screws or tiny odds and sods …

In my specific case, I bought into the idea that a watch was hand assembled and made in an exclusive workshop in Switzerland. It never occurred to me that major components come from “mainly Europe” or possibly elsewhere.

When pressed for a better understanding, the reply I received was and I’m paraphrasing… “we can’t tell you the country of manufacture due to confidentiality”

I think it’s that last part that leaves me a bit cold.

EDIT: maybe I do know how it makes me feel … Swiss Luxury, Swiss Made, in??????