Opinion on 1978 Cosmograph 6263

[Modiferous]

The pushers and crown might have been changed in service, remain Mk III, believe the dial, bezel (Mk II), hands, bracelet and end pieces all original. Am I correct?

Serial range 5.5 M








I already have a 6263 Big Red with silver dial, wanted to acquire this one too.

[Modiferous]

Movement

[swish77]

That poor case is extremely over-polished. The lugs are toothpicks.

If you can get past that issue (I couldn’t) .... pushers are later (relatively minor) and you’d want to see more detailed photos of the dial, including a UV shot. Looks like it’s missing parts of some of the hour dots (3,6,9,10), which is common, and depending on your tolerance level might be acceptable. Should definitely be a bargaining point either way.

Who’s the seller?

[Modiferous]

Lugs are fine. For me, what matters is that the watch is as original as possible and looks GOOD. I just wanted to make sure that my impression of what is and is not original, as posted in the first couple lines, was correct, that's why I posted. Thanks for confirming that.

On this very forum there are sellers trying to get six figures for four digit Cosmographs that look beat up in some way, scratched up dial, dingy dials, scratched up bezel, etc. Those sorts of things are show stoppers for me. I'd rather not wear a beat up looking watch, at any price.

The dial is fine too.



The price is right, it's lower than any other (including the beat up) 6263s around right now, and the owner has had it in the family since the beginning, so its provenance is hard to match, especially at the price I am paying. What I am paying is not a steal, but fair.

True, I paid about nothing relatively speaking for my other 6263 (white dial), which is all original and very clean looking too, but that was almost twenty years ago. I also have a 6265 from around that same time. My second 6265 I got more recently than that, but also like my other 6263 immaculate looking - clean, whew-wee, so clean!

Love those four digits! (In this instance, Low Digit - is a good! thing.)

And I have an almost immaculate 6239 (from 196_) that I did literally pay close to nothing for. I can't even wear that one without having people who know (but don't know me) trying to buy it off my wrist.

[swish77]

Maybe I’m too picky about cases, but that one wouldn’t appeal to me because of the over-polishing. The lugs are visibly thin, especially the top left.

Still, as long as you’re happy and you’ve fully vetted the watch, that’s all that matters. Congrats.

[1665fan]

Case would kill me….if I bought it I would have care laser welded….

[Kingface66]

This it?

https://ebay.us/m/y5beF1

[swish77]

Originally Posted by Kingface66

This it?

https://ebay.us/m/y5beF1

Yes, that looks like it.

If I’m already close to $90K, I’d stretch my budget a little and get a better example. Sure, you can save a couple grand by bargain-hunting, but is it really worth it?

I actually don’t think the eBay watch is such a great deal for the money based on its condition, unless the seller accepts a considerably lower offer.

[springer]

Gentlemen, and not being well-versed but admittedly somewhat knowledgeable with the vintage Daytonas, the case is obviously in poor condition as mentioned but what about the rest of the watch?

I'm not seeing any comments on the remainder of the watch. Am I too assume that it is in average condition and correct for the stated year? Besides the price being excessive for the condition, what else is there about this watch - whether correct, incorrect or having replacement parts - i.e. dial, pushers, bracelet. hands, bezel etc? I'm not seeing any red flags besides the case. Of course my opinion is based on the photos.

and easy to ascertain the poor condition.

[Modiferous]

Part of why I don't like posting on here for advice, is that busy bodies maybe trying to be helpful instead of answering the questions at hand try to track down where the watch is from, and if it is a good deal, who knows, maybe some will try to snatch it up. And I am paying nowhere near $89K for this watch, and my price is out the door no sales tax.

But actually, I'd rather just say that sure, I'm paying $150K for it, and let people not follow that train of thought of price, all I was interested in was confirming that I was correct about everything being original on the watch other than the Mk III crown and pushers, which was already confirmed.

The case is fine, I will now have about a half dozen of these four digit Daytona watches, some polished less than others, some beefier lugs than others, but all original and looking CLEAN is what matters most to me. When I look at the watch I want to see a nice clean watch that could pass for new or close. Granted some of my others are even nicer looking than this one, but this one looks good.

[swish77]

Originally Posted by springer

I'm not seeing any comments on the remainder of the watch.

Really? Here were my first comments:

Originally Posted by swish77

That poor case is extremely over-polished. The lugs are toothpicks.

If you can get past that issue (I couldn’t) .... pushers are later (relatively minor) and you’d want to see more detailed photos of the dial, including a UV shot. Looks like it’s missing parts of some of the hour dots (3,6,9,10), which is common, and depending on your tolerance level might be acceptable. Should definitely be a bargaining point either way.

Originally Posted by Modiferous

Part of why I don't like posting on here for advice, is that busy bodies maybe trying to be helpful instead of answering the questions at hand try to track down where the watch is from.

All I was interested in was confirming that I was correct about everything being original on the watch other than the Mk III crown and pushers, which was already confirmed.

The case is fine.

I didn’t find the watch online, but I’m not sure it’s fair to call another member a “busy-body” for trying to help and give an opinion. Any public listing is fair game, especially on eBay, which is open to the entire world. It’s not a secret.

As I commented previously the pushers are not original to the watch and should be MK2s to be period correct. The bezel does indeed appear to be an MK2.

And if you’re OK with the case, great, but most vintage collectors would not consider it “fine.” It’s all about your tolerance level.

Congrats on your purchase. Sounds like quite the collection you’re putting together.

[Kingface66]

Apologies for posting the (public) eBay link to this (overpriced, and overly-polished) watch. I promise I, and my watch collecting friends, have no interest in purchasing it for any price.

[springer]

Originally Posted by swish77

Really? Here were my first comments:




I didn’t find the watch online, but I’m not sure it’s fair to call another member a “busy-body” for trying to help and give an opinion. Any public listing is fair game, especially on eBay, which is open to the entire world. It’s not a secret.

As I commented previously the pushers are not original to the watch and should be MK2s to be period correct. The bezel does indeed appear to be an MK2.

And if you’re OK with the case, great, but most vintage collectors would not consider it “fine.” It’s all about your tolerance level.

Congrats on your purchase. Sounds like quite the collection you’re putting together.

Swish.....yes really - believe it or not, no I didn't see your post. Now, settle down and go have a drink.

[Dan S]

I will never understand why someone would post on the forum, hoping to crowd-source free feedback publicly from other enthusiasts (including some actual experts), and then push back and complain about the responses.

If I am hoping to get unbiased feedback, I ask my question, and then sit back and read the answers, without attempting to steer the conversation or to inhibit responses that might be counter to my own opinions. If I disagree with an comment, I can just ignore it in making my decision.

If I couldn't tolerate a range of responses, or I didn't want to publicize a watch for sale, there is always the option of approaching people privately, or paying a consultant for an expert opinion.

[alwayshere]

Originally Posted by Dan S

I will never understand why someone would post on the forum, hoping to crowd-source free feedback publicly from other enthusiasts (including some actual experts), and then push back and complain about the responses.

If I am hoping to get unbiased feedback, I ask my question, and then sit back and read the answers, without attempting to steer the conversation or to inhibit responses that might be counter to my own opinions. If I disagree with an comment, I can just ignore it in making my decision.

If I couldn't tolerate a range of responses, or I didn't want to publicize a watch for sale, there is always the option of approaching people privately, or paying a consultant for an expert opinion.

Well said.

There are plenty of members who behave / or think like OP which is some notion that a posting is "proprietary". Please...

[Modiferous]

Originally Posted by swish77

Congrats on your purchase. Sounds like quite the collection you’re putting together.

Thank you, and appreciate your input on the parts. The difference between Mk II and Mk III pushers doesn't mean much to me, but the dial and bezel would need to be original and they are. Thanks again for confirming that what I wrote in the OP about the authenticity and originality of the parts was exactly correct. And as you may note from the UV pic, the dial is fine too, but that was a good idea to look into that too.

Originally Posted by 1665fan

if I bought it I would have case laser welded….

How does that work? How much would it cost? Where would you suggest having this done? What would the end result be on a watch like this? They could make the lugs less pointy and beefier?

People really do that with vintage watches like this? I hope it's not like plastic surgery where the patient sometimes ends up looking worse in the long run.

[Modiferous]

Three 6263s. Which one you picking, beefy lugs wise?

[swish77]

Originally Posted by springer

Swish.....yes really - believe it or not, no I didn't see your post. Now, settle down and go have a drink.

Ha! I’m one of the few Scotsmen in the world who doesn’t drink at all. I like to be fully sober so I can accurately read all comments on this wonderful forum.

[TuRo]

Blimey, bit of a circular firing squad on here today. Its ok but I bought similar one full set for £65k here in UK (78350 correct end links) I don't get excited over lugs SHWR can do wonders for £500-600.

[1665fan]

Originally Posted by Modiferous

Thank you, and appreciate your input on the parts. The difference between Mk II and Mk III pushers doesn't mean much to me, but the dial and bezel would need to be original and they are. Thanks again for confirming that what I wrote in the OP about the authenticity and originality of the parts was exactly correct. And as you may note from the UV pic, the dial is fine too, but that was a good idea to look into that too.


How does that work? How much would it cost? Where would you suggest having this done? What would the end result be on a watch like this? They could make the lugs less pointy and beefier?

People really do that with vintage watches like this? I hope it's not like plastic surgery where the patient sometimes ends up looking worse in the long run.

You’re getting ready to spend 50-100k on a watch and I assume you have done that before and you have never heard of laser welding?? They add metal to the lugs then re polish/re cut the watch to look brand new……I don’t like it and prefer original unpolished examples

[Modiferous]

Correct I've spent that much each on dozens of watches, most of them brand new unworn, and my vintage ones haven't needed anything to be done to them, other than one of them needed a polish of the acrylic crystal. However I really do appreciate the knowledge about this laser welding thing, because I am having the watch checked for that, and will probably have it done if I go through with the sale, which it looks like I will.

Actually, hold on, I have a 16808 and something needed to be done to its band or clasp years ago that was along the lines of welding. And my 16628 with MOP ruby dial the bezel had an ever so slight line on it and it was somehow filled so that might have been something like that, I just know I shipped it to my buddy and he handled it for me.

Over the years my 6239 did need a new mainspring. Actually I don't even know what was put into it I was just a kid then didn't even know what I had, I just know it stopped running and a friend of the family was the local AD and he had it taken care of.

I still note no one has taken a stabbing opinion at which of the above three has the "beefiest" lugs.

[Kingface66]

I’ve completely lost the plot of what this thread is even about.
Not wanting input from members after asking for insight.
A beefy lug quiz?
Casually mentioning the spending of hundreds of thousands of dollars on dozens of watches?

[Modiferous]

Are numerical skills needed to discern beefy lugs from non-beefy ones?

[1665fan]

Originally Posted by Modiferous

Correct I've spent that much each on dozens of watches, most of them brand new unworn, and my vintage ones haven't needed anything to be done to them, other than one of them needed a polish of the acrylic crystal. However I really do appreciate the knowledge about this laser welding thing, because I am having the watch checked for that, and will probably have it done if I go through with the sale, which it looks like I will.

Actually, hold on, I have a 16808 and something needed to be done to its band or clasp years ago that was along the lines of welding. And my 16628 with MOP ruby dial the bezel had an ever so slight line on it and it was somehow filled so that might have been something like that, I just know I shipped it to my buddy and he handled it for me.

Over the years my 6239 did need a new mainspring. Actually I don't even know what was put into it I was just a kid then didn't even know what I had, I just know it stopped running and a friend of the family was the local AD and he had it taken care of.

I still note no one has taken a stabbing opinion at which of the above three has the "beefiest" lugs.

Gold watches can be laser welded also….a lot of day dates have been polished soo bad their lugs look like vampire fangs….if I had one like that I would get it laser welded also…..

[swish77]

Originally Posted by Modiferous

I still note no one has taken a stabbing opinion at which of the above three has the "beefiest" lugs.

That might be because the photos aren’t good enough to fully evaluate. Based just on those three photos, I’d say the first one has the best lugs, although not sure I’d call them “beefy.”

For comparison, see below for my 6.0 serial 6263 with what I’d describe as a thick case.

Originally Posted by TuRo

I don't get excited over lugs SHWR can do wonders for £500-600.

Yes, cases can be completely rebuilt, and dials can be completely refinished and made perfect too. But then they’d no longer be original, of course.

Surprises me how some collectors are fine laser-welding a case, but it’s totally taboo to touch a dial. Makes little sense to me.