Omega Speedmaster Pre-Moon....

[onkyo]

Could someone please educate me as to the significance of an Omega speedy Pro Pre-moon?

Are these rare pieces?

I am being offered one with original b/p in very nice condition.

Thanks!

[jwalther]

"Pre-moon" denotes a case back wit a case back looking like this:



as opposed to either the "transitional" case back ("first watch on the moon" text only) produced in 1970, or the case back used beginning in 1971 or so and continuing to today.

Value will depend on the movement. . .If it's a cal. 321, meaning 1967 (roughly) or earlier, it's worth more. Less for a cal. 861 (roughly 1968 or later). . . If you can't open the watch to determine the movement, check the dial. If the Omega logo is metal and applied to the dial, as opposed to being painted on, it's almost certainly a cal. 321, as there were very few "applied logo" dials on 861 watches. Condition obviously matters greatly. Original boxes and accessories add value as well. Post some pics if you can!

[onkyo]

Originally Posted by jwalther

"Pre-moon" denotes a case back wit a case back looking like this:



as opposed to either the "transitional" case back ("first watch on the moon" text only) produced in 1970, or the case back used beginning in 1971 or so and continuing to today.

Value will depend on the movement. . .If it's a cal. 321, meaning 1967 (roughly) or earlier, it's worth more. Less for a cal. 861 (roughly 1968 or later). . . If you can't open the watch to determine the movement, check the dial. If the Omega logo is metal and applied to the dial, as opposed to being painted on, it's almost certainly a cal. 321, as there were very few "applied logo" dials on 861 watches. Condition obviously matters greatly. Original boxes and accessories add value as well. Post some pics if you can!

Thanks for the info.... I believe it was '69 and in nice condition. The hands looked newer than the dial to me. I will try to get some pics if the watch hasn't sold yet. Someone else looked at it after me.

[ciclisto]

is the movement better in the pre moon s

[ciclisto]

those are great old watches

[achova]

If you want more info on Speedmasters, spend some time on the late Chuck Maddox's site, ChronoMaddox - http://www.chronomaddox.com (hope it's okay to post the URL). His site references a thread of this nature on TZ with Chuck weighing-in. To snip a couple relevant passages...

In simple terms, the manual-wind Speedmaster IS the "Moon Watch." Before the moon landing in 1969, of course, they did not say "First Watch on the Moon." Because there were only 12 years of Speedmasters before the moon landing, and 30 years since, the "pre-Moon" versions are more rare and, therefore, more expensive. Also, because the first watch actually worn on the moon was one of those earlier models not engraved with reference to the moon, they are more "historically accurate" and are more expensive, Lastly, the models actually worn on the moon and earlier, used Caliber 321 instead of 861, and they are more rare and more expensive.

Again, in simple terms, the manual-wind Speedmaster IS the "Professional." But the dial was not marked "Professional" until 1966. Since there were only 9 years of production before the "Professional" marking and 33 years after, the "pre-Pro" models are more rare and more expensive. The pre-Pro models also had a smaller case with different lugs and no crown guard. Again, they are rarer and more expensive.....
<snip>

<follow-on post>
....The only elaboration I would make, is that the c.321 movement which Omega used through 1967 was replaced with the simpler, robust, and less expensive c.861 in 1968. However, from what I and others have been able to determine NASA had an accumulated store of Speedmasters already on hand and used them [c.321's] throughout the Moon Missions and Skylab. We have been unable to document that if c.861's were worn into space at least until Apollo Soyuz when a commemorative production run of 500 units with the c.861 was made. However, while few of the pictures I have of the astronauts who made this flight are clear, Alexsei Leonov wore a Flightmaster on a bracelet, and it appears that none of the three American astronauts wore a commemorative model. The pictures that I have seem to show ordinary Speedmasters. Only Slayton's Speedmaster appears clearly enough for me to make a
tenative id as a c.321, Stafford's and Brands have reflections on the crystal that make identifing dicey enough that I can not determine the specifics other than they do not look to be the commemorative model.

By the time John W. Young and Robert L. Crippen flew Space Shuttle Columbia on the first flight of the Space Transportation System (STS-1), NASA had retested for flight chronographs with the c.861 Speedmaster Professional as the representative from Omega (as opposed to the c.321). The c.861 passed the same tests as used earlier and was adopted as the standard astronaut chronograph. It is not known if either Astronaut wore a c.321 or c.861. John Young would probably have retained his c.321 (from his 2 Gemini, and 2 Apollo missions), and Crippen might have had a c.321 as he was a backup astronaut for one of the moon missions, and capsule communicator during the Apollo Soyuz Test Project.

So, the Moonwatch is generally considered to be the metal back manual-wind Omega Speedmaster in c.321 or c.861 with no elaborations (like date, moonphase, display-back, etc.). The actual watches worn on the moon were almost certainly of the c.321 variety, although other watches _were_ worn on the moon.

Here's my Pre-Moon watch. A ~1966 Speedmaster Professional c.321 145.012 (listed for sale HERE at TRF).

GROUP SHOT

[Speedmeister]

Bottom Line:
Make sure :

1 it has a .321 movement. You can tell by the horseshoe shaped bridge. Great watch.

2.it has applied white gold omega dial with long minute markers.

3. the chrono hand is smaller at the base than the new ones (not always, but prefered)

4. ref 1039 bracelet is original

[achova]

If it is a '69 model it'll probably be a 145.022 with the c.861 movement. Again check the link above, but here is a direct link to a relevant point in the chronology -

http://chronomaddox.com/pay.html#The...ost%20Moon%29: