Fake? Need some help please

[lindawmn]

Looking for some help here.

My friend and I were on liveauctioneers.com and she bid on this vintage Rolex watch and won:

http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/8736112

I went over the appraisal and noticed there was no serial number. In addition, the price was inflated (expected) and the band style in the appraisal was wrong. My friend notified Visa and they are helping us keep tabs on this situation.

We had to dig, but in reviewing other closed auctions by SAA we noticed that five auctions closed in February as sold using the same photo and the same appraisal! We called the auction house today and was told that the auctions were indeed marked sold, but that reserve wasn't met. When I informed the man on the phone that in that case, the auction would read passed, not sold, he got pretty flustered. Major suspicious.

He did give me the serial number and case number on the phone, and told me that the sticker was still on the back. Given the serial number puts this watch in the early-mid 60s, the sticker should not be a hologram, and I'll be making sure of that.

Long story short, we have good reason to believe this watch is a knock off. We know that the bracelet and bezel are not original Rolex, and that's ok so long as they are solid 18K and real diamonds. What we are concerned about is that the watch itself, i.e. the movement, face, etc. is not Rolex.

We intend to bring this to an authorized dealer when we receive it for inspection (and will only open the box in the jeweler's presence, probably recording at the same time.

Can someone here weigh in with their opinions? We plan to go through the proper channels and have no problem paying to get this piece properly appraised so if it is fake, we can have Visa go after Bang The Gavel, the auction house that we paid.

[rmfnla]

There are so many red flags here I don't know where to begin, but I suspect you know that.

A genuine movement might salvage this somewhat but with aftermarket dial, bezel and band why would you even want this thing?

Let us know how it works out.

[lindawmn]

I guess a better question is why is it important that the dial, bezel and band to be Rolex? Really, it's the movement and case that make the watch - all after that is purely decorative. After all, I could easily sell the bracelet that's on it and buy a Rolex bracelet, right? Ditto dial and bezel. But case and movement? Much more difficult.

I guess for purists, it's critical that all parts be Rolex but even Rolex didn't make all their parts from what I understand.

I view the watch as jewelry. Therefore if I pay for solid 18K, I expect to get it, not filled or rolled gold. If I pay for diamonds, I expect not to get moissanite.

If there's the case and movement are Rolex and the amount I paid for the watch on the whole is fair market value, I'm happy.

Guess I'm not so much of a purist?

[lindawmn]

UPDATE:

Movement and case are indeed Rolex, circa late 50s, early 60s (I need to look at the serial number again...forgot if there was a 1 or not in front of the 6 digit number - getting old sucks :))

I'm happy with the purchase. I wanted what I wanted, and this had all I wanted. Thanks to all who responded.

Linda

[lindawmn]

BTW, if you really want blasphemy, my friend has the same watch and she plans on removing the 18K Rolex band and putting on a...


....wait for it....




Orange ostrich band


(anyone need smelling salts? LOL!)

[Frogman4me]

If I told you that the condition and originality of the dial and hands are the most important aspect of a vintage watch would you believe me?

[rmfnla]

Originally Posted by lindawmn

I guess a better question is why is it important that the dial, bezel and band to be Rolex? Really, it's the movement and case that make the watch - all after that is purely decorative. After all, I could easily sell the bracelet that's on it and buy a Rolex bracelet, right? Ditto dial and bezel. But case and movement? Much more difficult.

I guess for purists, it's critical that all parts be Rolex but even Rolex didn't make all their parts from what I understand.

I view the watch as jewelry. Therefore if I pay for solid 18K, I expect to get it, not filled or rolled gold. If I pay for diamonds, I expect not to get moissanite.

If there's the case and movement are Rolex and the amount I paid for the watch on the whole is fair market value, I'm happy.

Guess I'm not so much of a purist?

A lot of it has to do with quality. Yes, Rolex does source many of their parts from outside parties but those parts are subjected to rigorous quality requirements and are closely inspected to make sure they conform to the Rolex standard. If you ever get the opportunity to compare a Rolex band with any of the aftermarket offerings you will understand; the difference is that obvious.

If this is not important to you why buy a Rolex in the first place? If you just like the look Invicta makes some nice-looking homage pieces.

[lindawmn]

I'm a vintage jewelry dealer. I know jewelry, I know construction. And I know that there are different levels of craftsmen on the market. My friend has the watch with the original Rolex band. We have compared. The quality of both are excellent.

Why not buy an Invicta? Because I appreciate the Rolex movement. To say that I should not own a Rolex unless it is 'virgin' is imposing one's opinion on another, i.e. "you can't buy one unless you buy it my way". If I feel the original dial is ugly, I have a right to change it. ditto on the other bits. I might change out the bracelet eventually for a Rolex one, I might not. But really, it's my choice. I didn't lease it from Rolex, it's an outright purchase.

Regarding 'important aspects of a vintage watch'. that depends on why one purchases it. If one plans on re-selling, then yeah, all original is the way to go.

I have earrings in my possession for instance that simply will NOT sell unless I switch out the clip findings to pierced. Ditto goes for rings - if I size them to a 6.5 or 7, they turn over almost immediately. A size 5 will sit forever, even if I say "this ring is sizeable.".

[Speed]

Hope you got what you came for :-)

[lindawmn]

I did - I just wasn't expecting to be chastised for my decisions. That's...odd...

[never2late]

Originally Posted by lindawmn

I did - I just wasn't expecting to be chastised for my decisions. That's...odd...

Unfortunately, it might not be too odd. As a recently new forum member I posted two questions about my explorer II and immideately got accused of being a TROLL. I proved them wrong and still no apology. Most folks here seem very nice, others however, not so much.

[HL65]

As long as you are happy with it that is all that matters! Happy it worked out for you!

[supastar2]

Originally Posted by rmfnla

A lot of it has to do with quality. Yes, Rolex does source many of their parts from outside parties but those parts are subjected to rigorous quality requirements and are closely inspected to make sure they conform to the Rolex standard. If you ever get the opportunity to compare a Rolex band with any of the aftermarket offerings you will understand; the difference is that obvious.

If this is not important to you why buy a Rolex in the first place? If you just like the look Invicta makes some nice-looking homage pieces.

So true, That's why my original is staying with stretch!

[rmfnla]

If that's your 'Vette I doubt anyone is going to notice a little band stretch...

[SS Oyster]

Good luck with the watch

[lindawmn]

Originally Posted by never2late

Unfortunately, it might not be too odd. As a recently new forum member I posted two questions about my explorer II and immideately got accused of being a TROLL. I proved them wrong and still no apology. Most folks here seem very nice, others however, not so much.

Sorry that happened to you. I don't understand the behavior. Some have been kind.

[Andad]

Originally Posted by lindawmn

I did - I just wasn't expecting to be chastised for my decisions. That's...odd...

Hi Linda. Welcome to the Forum.

You did ask 'Can someone here weigh in with their opinions'?

Perhaps you should have added, 'provided they are nice opinions and don't annoy me'. - just saying.

[toph]

you are happy, you seem wise enough to know what you wnated and worked out that you got it. as long as you are happy and appreciate what is the most important genuine parts to you then enjoy!

[rmfnla]

Originally Posted by directioneng

Hi Linda. Welcome to the Forum.

You did ask 'Can someone here weigh in with their opinions'?

Perhaps you should have added, 'provided they are nice opinions and don't annoy me'. - just saying.

Or "agree with what I want to hear..."

[harry in montreal]

its not a vette. looks like a silver viper to me. harry

[Frogman4me]

Originally Posted by harry in montreal

its not a vette. looks like a silver viper to me. harry

It's a vette, see the emblem on the the front

[supastar2]

Originally Posted by rmfnla

If that's your 'Vette I doubt anyone is going to notice a little band stretch...

It's a vette ZR-1, It's a stick so my stretched band is hanging out out all over the steering wheel all the time!