Vintage Sub No Date - Collectible?

[Oyster Lover]

Howdy friends! I've seen a few people on TRF comment that a good condition, collectible vintage Rolex for the future will be a vintage sub no date. Could a few knowledgeable TRF'ers elaborate? How old of a vintage do you suppose? Is there a particular reference? What to look for? What to pay?

Cheers!

[Oyster Lover]

No one has an opinion?

Maybe a vintage sub no-date not that collectible?

[mike]

OL,

I think the vintage Submariner is an excellent choice for someone looking to get into the vintage arena. It provides a watch with a lot of history, one that can be worn, and purchased correctly has upside potential.

As to which is most collectible, wow! So may ways to answer. LOL!

For the well heeled, knowledgeable collector/investor it's not to hard to get into high five digits pushing six. References such as the 5517, 5510, etc... are out of reach to all but the most savy and capable collector.

Normally, I think, when NDs come up two references spring to mind--the 5512 and the 5513. Both are plastic and should be of matt dial configuration. (Not a problem with the 5512 as they were only issued this way. The 5513 received a gloss dial with WG surrounds circa 1985).
Both references will have only acryllic crystals--another requirement for the purist.

Of the two the 5513 is probably the easier to get (read cheaper), however here again it's easy to break the 10K barrier easily if one considers gilt dials and in some cases the addition of Box and papers.

In it's white matt dial configuration and like all vintage pieces CONDITION is paramount--expect to look at 4K-4.5K and up depending.

Factors which enter into the equation are dial markings--meters or feet first, maxi dial, insert, and of course service and time keeping.

My own preference (others may differ) is for the maxi-dial configuration if a feet first dial. I find the slightly oversize markers to be a lovely dial with so much character. Originally issued beginning circa 5.5 mil. and extending at least till 6.7 mil or so the lume plots just touching the hash marks give a "full" look to the dial.

Interestingly, there has been a lot of talk recently about the maxi in vintage circles with those favoring the dial and others wondering what the big deal is. LOL! -- One of the great things about vintage.

What does appear to be the case is that the maxi was used on watches with serial numbers much lower than the initial run due to it's apparant use as a service replacement dial for a time back in the day.

Still it's my favorite. Mine--6.04 mil hacking,

[SPACE-DWELLER]

The 5513 is increasingly sought-after and demanding corresponding high prices.

The newly discontinued Sub OP 14060M would also become a very good investment in near future, IMHO.

And if we speculate even more, the current, COSC rated, 14060M will be VERY rare, IF it is discontinued when and if an updated Sub range with ceramic bezels (etc.) comes.

[scottschoe]

Does anyone know rough production #s comparing the 14060M to the GMT II 16710? Always been curious.

[Oyster Lover]

Originally Posted by mike

OL,

I think the vintage Submariner is an excellent choice for someone looking to get into the vintage arena. It provides a watch with a lot of history, one that can be worn, and purchased correctly has upside potential.

As to which is most collectible, wow! So may ways to answer. LOL!

For the well heeled, knowledgeable collector/investor it's not to hard to get into high five digits pushing six. References such as the 5517, 5510, etc... are out of reach to all but the most savy and capable collector.

Normally, I think, when NDs come up two references spring to mind--the 5512 and the 5513. Both are plastic and should be of matt dial configuration. (Not a problem with the 5512 as they were only issued this way. The 5513 received a gloss dial with WG surrounds circa 1985).
Both references will have only acryllic crystals--another requirement for the purist.

Of the two the 5513 is probably the easier to get (read cheaper), however here again it's easy to break the 10K barrier easily if one considers gilt dials and in some cases the addition of Box and papers.

In it's white matt dial configuration and like all vintage pieces CONDITION is paramount--expect to look at 4K-4.5K and up depending.

Factors which enter into the equation are dial markings--meters or feet first, maxi dial, insert, and of course service and time keeping.

My own preference (others may differ) is for the maxi-dial configuration if a feet first dial. I find the slightly oversize markers to be a lovely dial with so much character. Originally issued beginning circa 5.5 mil. and extending at least till 6.7 mil or so the lume plots just touching the hash marks give a "full" look to the dial.

Interestingly, there has been a lot of talk recently about the maxi in vintage circles with those favoring the dial and others wondering what the big deal is. LOL! -- One of the great things about vintage.

What does appear to be the case is that the maxi was used on watches with serial numbers much lower than the initial run due to it's apparant use as a service replacement dial for a time back in the day.

Still it's my favorite. Mine--6.04 mil hacking,

Awsome answer Mike - thanks so much! You are awsome! I am definitely interested in the sub no-date - just saw one on the Paul Duggan website - it was the 5513 with acrylic going for $3,500 (no box or papers) which I thought was a pretty good price, but it was sold. It's such a good looking watch - I'll definitely watch out for the next one! Thanks again!

[Oyster Lover]

Originally Posted by SPACE-DWELLER

The 5513 is increasingly sought-after and demanding corresponding high prices.

The newly discontinued Sub OP 14060M would also become a very good investment in near future, IMHO.

And if we speculate even more, the current, COSC rated, 14060M will be VERY rare, IF it is discontinued when and if an updated Sub range with ceramic bezels (etc.) comes.

Thanks Bo - always can count on you and Mike for educated and well-informed answers to all questions!