GMT and so forth, buying tips?

[lavaman]

A question:

As in, for example, collectible cars, the general rule is to buy the newest and most well documented you can afford...


So, does the same pertain to Rolex?

Ex: I am looking at several GMTs, one in the y2k era, one from early 1980s, and a few in between. All things being equal (seller and condition) , should I always go for the newer one (16700/16710) , or is it ok to go for an older one (16753) if it's what I really love?

In other words, forget how much I may love the older one, with improvements in quality control and technology, if price point is not a factor, are the newer ones are nearly always a better deal?

*disclaimer: I am assuming the watches are otherwise equal, i.e. nothing unique or collectible about one over the other. Note that this watch would NOT be a safe queen, but would be expected to perform to daily wear and abuse, with the usual consideration that maintenance will be incurred in proportion


Thanks!

[landroverking]

I think you are on the right track. But you might want to first look a vintage 1675.

[77T]

It really starts with your goal for the GMT. Are you buying as a lifetime keeper? Are you hoping to flip it quickly?

In my case I wanted a GMT that was vintage and a tad different so went with a Root Beer from mid-80's.

So for me the newer ones didn't really matter.

[HL65]

Not in my world....Sorry. Whatever you do though get best example to your liking & era from the best possible source.

[Paksent]

Documented is a good path but 'newest' isn't always best. Look at the different models, do you want crystal or plexi, gold surrounds our matte, Ellen 6/9s or closed. Many factors but get one you love. Good luck!
Paul

[lavaman]

yea something about that two tone black/gold on a Jubilee just goes "POP!" to me

but then, I also like the industrial "strength and honor", up for anything look of the Oyster band.....

and yea, this one wont be for sale unless dire financial need. My (very) modest collection is for me to enjoy for my own (often goofy) reasons. that being said, it needs to be able to take some punishment (eg the two tone GMT I I am looking at would have to have the crystal upgraded for my peace of mind. no longer authentic, per se, but I don't care)

thanks for the intel as ever

[Pup]

Well, you've been around awhile, so you most likely know that you've got a laundry list of options you can write down and see which model fits...
--do you want plexi or sapphire?
--Tritium (which won't glow anymore) or Luminova or Super Luminova?
--SEL's on the bracelet ends or the stamped end links?
--Old style "pops open at the most inopportune moment" clasp or the fliplock?
--Lug holes or solid lugs?
--GMT or GMT II
--Quick set (beginning with 16750) or non quick set (1675)
--a "Fat Lady" that has a cool fatter case but a movement that is harder to service.....etc., etc.
For each "upgrade" (and I know some would disagree with the nomenclature), there is a different start/end year. You just need to see what you want, or research the differences and then pick a model.

Having said that, and having bought and flipped a few, I can tell you that, from a price standpoint, I've noticed that over the past year and a half, the 60's 1675 in good to mint condition has skyrocketed in price. Then, on the time continuum, the late 80's and all of the 90's (sapphire, tritium, lug holes and no SEL's) are the lowest priced and a bargain can be had. When you get to the F's, D's, and Z's with Super Luminova, SEL's, solid lugs (and a coronet engraved in the sapphire at 6:00), and the "Great White Whale" M, (with the new 3186 movement), the price goes back up at least $1K over the 90's models.
Hope this helps. It's really less confusing when you look to one of the many GMT model continuum threads. Good luck. I've seen the same serial with books and papers going for very different prices because some sellers (not TRF trusteds) are trying to set the market higher because the 16710 and 16700 (especially the Pepsi's) were discontinued after 2007. It's makes for some surprising and exciting shopping comparisons. Happy hunting!

[lavaman]

thanks Pup....is that an Indian Scout by chance in your avatar? Fender says Harley, but then you look at the end....


anyway, the oldest one I am looking at is circa 1982, which is OLD by my standards, given the amount of punishment this thing may be asked to take from time to time.

I prefer the GMT II, but no one has yet explained to me the (thread?) advantage of SEL vs non-SEL (they feel better, more substantial?) or LUG vs solid (ditto?)

[Pup]

Originally Posted by lavaman

thanks Pup....is that an Indian Scout by chance in your avatar? Fender says Harley, but then you look at the end....


anyway, the oldest one I am looking at is circa 1982, which is OLD by my standards, given the amount of punishment this thing may be asked to take from time to time.

I prefer the GMT II, but no one has yet explained to me the (thread?) advantage of SEL vs non-SEL (they feel better, more substantial?) or LUG vs solid (ditto?)

1937 HD Flathead photographed in 1994.

Okay, here goes...I prefer SEL's to the stamped because of precisely that: more solid and substantial. The link is longer and I believe more aesthetically pleasing as well. Hey, the model never made it to a glide lock so the "tuna can" bracelet needs a fliplock and SEL's IMHO to give it a modicum of heft and security.
With all due respect to Gus (Subtona) and all the other "lug hole Mafia," I prefer the cleaner look of the concealed spring bars with no lug holes. The argument for simplicity of on/off with the lug holes (exposed spring bar ends that can be compressed, and the bracelet detached with a paper clip or the like), is countered with my fine fork Bergeon 6767F spring bar tool that can be found new on eBay for $15 (what I paid) to $25 (which is also what Amazon sells it for). Whatever model you choose, buy the tool cuz the end opposite the fork is a solid steel pin that will work your lug hole set up as well.

Also FWIW, unless you're going to take the plunge and go farther back in time for a 1675, I'd skip the '82 because IMHO the plexi vintage crystal really adds to the older cherished models but just becomes a "whack it on the door knob" maintenance issue for a daily wearer. I'd go sapphire from late 80's on up. Again, if you don't need SEL's, you don't mind lug holes, and you don't care if you can't read your watch in the dark, the 90's sapphire tritium models are a relative bargain right now.

[Pup]

BTW...before the "Lug Hole Mafia" to which I referred in my previous post comes out in force with pitchforks and torches, let me just say that most of them have owned their GMT's longer than I have and have probably forgotten more GMT lore and anecdotes than I ever knew.

I'm a "tweener"...I like the newest GMT II features I can get without going to ceramic. You of all TRF'ers should appreciate how an obsession, as a young man with MPI up to and through the exploding Ferrari and "Mack is Back" has necessitated an addiction to a Pepsi. I simply cannot have a GMT model without popping the bezel off and swapping the insert out for a Pepsi (if it doesn't have one already). This is something that cannot, as you know, be done with the GMT IIc. Also, I had a white faced Daytona 116520 and the PCL's drove me crazy (repeatedly checking throughout the day to see if the mirror had been scratched while rooting around in a file cabinet, etc.). I never worry about the 16710.
Hope this helps you sign on someone's dotted line!

[lavaman]

You of all TRF'ers should appreciate how an obsession, as a young man with MPI up to and through the exploding Ferrari and "Mack is Back" has necessitated an addiction to a Pepsi.

nope, no clue!

Actually I don't like the Pepsi exactly for that reason....there is already a 328 in the family and the last thing I need is a Pepsi GMT to go with my numerous Aloha shirts

[Pup]

Oh well, I hope the on-topic stuff helps then, rather than the digression!
Let us know what you finally end up with!

[kryten2001]

Originally Posted by landroverking

I think you are on the right track. But you might want to first look a vintage 1675.

Very this.