Can an AD charge MORE than list price?

[tnt]

Originally Posted by veilstylez

I think what you need to do is, go to your AD that you put your deposit on and talk to them. Ask them if the prices of the two watches your buying is going to go up if the price increase happens since you put a deposit before the increase. Tell them the reason you put a deposit on them is because your trying to buy the watch before the increase. Of course this depends on the watch your ordering....if its a SS Daytona, GV, or even regular Milgauss forget about it......but if your looking for a DJ/Sub/SD/YM/GMTc should be okay. Or find a AD that has one in stock now(if hes going to raise prices on you).
However, I do know that if I order a watch now my AD will let you pay for the watch in full now if you want the current list prices. He might take a deposit even. Again these are for non rare models.

So if you want current prices, its best you find a AD that has what you want in stock and buy it now. Unless your AD says he wont increase on you. So you need to find out forsure from them.

I ordered 2 midsize Datejusts with black diamond dial. He just got one in stock but oyster bracelet.

My sale rep is kind of quite person. He seems unlike to talk much, that makes me mad sometimes

The reason I have stucked with him in hope that he promised will sell me another black daytona for my son, and also GV milgauss (which he doesn't have one yet). If I don't get any Daytona this year, he will loose me for life !

have found other AD has better price than he is, without asking, I still believe it is long list for Daytona.

Hate to talk on the phone, but I think I have to call him monday to see what is going on.

[veilstylez]

Originally Posted by tnt

I ordered 2 midsize Datejusts with black diamond dial. He just got one in stock but oyster bracelet.

My sale rep is kind of quite person. He seems unlike to talk much, that makes me mad sometimes

The reason I have stucked with him in hope that he promised will sell me another black daytona for my son, and also GV milgauss (which he doesn't have one yet). If I don't get any Daytona this year, he will loose me for life !

have found other AD has better price than he is, without asking, I still believe it is long list for Daytona.

Hate to talk on the phone, but I think I have to call him monday to see what is going on.

Yeah I really think you should talk to him. Remind him of how much you've bought from him and since you put a deposit for the 2 DJ then the price some stay current. Tell him that you have the choice to buy from another AD that has one in stock with the current MSRP, but you chose to stay with him in hopes that he will get you the Daytona later. But honestly if hes going to increase prices on you, I would look for another AD that has one in stock now and buy them before the increase, unless you dont mind.

Let us know what happens good luck~

[CoopJr]

Originally Posted by crimscrem

I for one would refuse to pay an increased price on an older serial number.

Ditto for me too! I was offered a D serial SD at 10% off the Z serial price...but said no. I've never had a business class that taught the principal that if your old stock is not selling, you raise the price

[hienpham04]

In the US, an AD is not allowed to charge more than MSRP on the watches. As for discounts, there's a maximum limit they can discount on new Rolex watches. AD must follow the rules, if not, Rolex will suspend the AD account. ~Hien

[crimscrem]

Originally Posted by hienpham04

In the US, an AD is not allowed to charge more than MSRP on the watches. As for discounts, there's a maximum limit they can discount on new Rolex watches. AD must follow the rules, if not, Rolex will suspend the AD account. ~Hien

I'm not sure that's correct. I'm not an antitrust lawyer, but that might be price-fixing. It's my understanding that in addition to federal laws, each state has their own competition laws. Manufacturers can set suggested retail prices (MSRP), but the actual price at which goods are sold are often determined by the seller. If they want to charge more, they will. If they don't want to, they won't. THat's my understanding.

[buz-lh]

Originally Posted by vh_bu98

If you put down a deposit, then the AD would be obligated to sell the watches for the price that was agreed upon when the deposit was made.

I don't think so, because all contracts for that type of transaction that I've ever seen include a manufacturers price increase clause. The really interesting thing here is that when there is a price increase it affects every watch that is already in the AD's inventory. The msrp goes up but their cost doesn't.

[crimscrem]

Originally Posted by buz-lh

I don't think so, because all contracts for that type of transaction that I've ever seen include a manufacturers price increase clause. The really interesting thing here is that when there is a price increase it affects every watch that is already in the AD's inventory. The msrp goes up but their cost doesn't.

Not always true on the inventory point. I was at a local AD this past week and he had two different MSRP prices on the exact same watch. The only difference was the serial number. One was a D and the other was a Z.

I agree that if an AD has a Z or M in stock when a price increase in Feb. takes place, the Z and M will go up with any new shipments. But it's not always the case.

[buz-lh]

Originally Posted by crimscrem

Not always true on the inventory point. I was at a local AD this past week and he had two different MSRP prices on the exact same watch. The only difference was the serial number. One was a D and the other was a Z.

I agree that if an AD has a Z or M in stock when a price increase in Feb. takes place, the Z and M will go up with any new shipments. But it's not always the case.

That I could see because now a D is two years old. Z and M are still current.

[Earl Camembert]

Originally Posted by crimscrem

I'm not sure that's correct. I'm not an antitrust lawyer, but that might be price-fixing. It's my understanding that in addition to federal laws, each state has their own competition laws. Manufacturers can set suggested retail prices (MSRP), but the actual price at which goods are sold are often determined by the seller. If they want to charge more, they will. If they don't want to, they won't. THat's my understanding.

Rolex is not a US company. What can the US of A do if Rolex drops a dealer? I assume about as much as they can about OPEC. Gas and watch dealers can't get together and set prices but a foreign cabal can.

[Alcan]

Originally Posted by Earl Camembert

Rolex is not a US company. What can the US of A do if Rolex drops a dealer? I assume about as much as they can about OPEC. Gas and watch dealers can't get together and set prices but a foreign cabal can.

Rolex U.S. is a completely different entity from Montres Rolex S.A.

[Arturo]

Not allowed and a basis to pull the charter. I am an attorney and have read the ad agreement. Not allowed. Now if they get a used one, they can try that. Never buy an ss Daytona new over list. It is a myth that they can charge more.

[Arturo]

Perhaps there are differing AD agreements. As I understand it, Rolex can hold an AD to MRSP in its contract. No self respecting AD charges more than MRSP even for SS Daytona. After the Brighton case, I do think there will be a tendency to keep prices at MRSP without discount if Rolex decides to prevent that. That is not price fixing which is a different animal. A manufacturer can set its prices to hold the value of its product. You will never see "for sale" signs in a Rolex store for Rolex watches I would surmise. The thing is, keeping MRSP as a ceiling but allowing some play with the floor has benefitted Rolex and getten a good custoner base so I doubt it will change from the current tendency to allow AD's to give small discounts to good customers. I would say, however, I think it silly to pay more than MRSP for anything.

[SPACE-DWELLER]

Originally Posted by Jocke

Bo, ask your dealer about it, in Sweden they are not allowed to sell the new
watches over listprice.

I suppose Rolex will control the pric market too.

Jocke

Denmark is not Sweden. We also don't have any "System Bolaget"

[TonyD]

Soooo... the answer is yes/no/no/yes/yes/yes/no/yes/no then?

Oh well. We may never know fir sure I guess!

[Felly Jr.]

Originally Posted by lynntonyd

Soooo... the answer is yes/no/no/yes/yes/yes/no/yes/no then?

Oh well. We may never know fir sure I guess!

I think the answer is a definitive "MAYBE"!

[VESUVIO]

T in NY will charge around 12K for a SS Daytona

[Earl Camembert]

Originally Posted by Alcan

Rolex U.S. is a completely different entity from Montres Rolex S.A.

Interesting but the watches are made and distributed by the company in Switzerland. It's all about the watch. I doubt Rolex USA could set up a plant in China and start popping out Rolexes. Hmmmmm perhaps they already do.

[llamaofdoom]

Originally Posted by hienpham04

In the US, an AD is not allowed to charge more than MSRP on the watches. As for discounts, there's a maximum limit they can discount on new Rolex watches. AD must follow the rules, if not, Rolex will suspend the AD account. ~Hien

Haven't seen any language in an AD agreement that limits discounting, save Rolex USA's right to repurchase the dealer's inventory at cost should the dealer go out of business and liquidate.

[veilstylez]

There in AD here in So Cali. that has each black and white SS Daytonas on there case with a price sticker of $13,900 openly. He even told me he pays his Rolex rep $$$ under the table to get him more Daytonas and this is why he has to charge more for them.
This is also how he gets 12+ Daytonas a year.

[BigDanC]

Originally Posted by vh_bu98

Rolex prices are based on current MSRP even if the watch is several years old. As long as it can be sold as new, the current price is the going rate.

Actually, Rolex really can't dictate their prices at all. Anti-Trust laws ftw. Sure it's written in the contract, but all it would take to get them nuked is one good class action lawsuit.

If you've ever read any of the Rolex Authorized dealer agreements they have a lot of poorly worded grey conditions. From what I've heard that's mostly so Rolex can pull your AD status for reasons that wouldn't get them in trouble.

So, legally rolex can't dictate prices, but deviating more than 10% or so from MSRP on a regular basis would probably get their dealer status revoked on other, unrelated grounds:P

[Arturo]

Read Brighton...new USSC case several months ago. Manufacturers can insist on MRSP if they choose and that is in agreement. Current antitrust laws very toothless, and not enforced, especially by Bushies. This is USSC new caselaw...not antitrust violation for manufacturer to bar dealer from selling below MRSP. I would think same would go above that. Brighton is a very important case. Rolex is too smart to get rigid like Brighton did with its line of watches. But the principle is the same.

That being said, Rolex can do what it wants. If it thinks that the value of Rolex is being diluted by an AD that puts its watches next to Siekos, or does not have a proper display with sufficient inventory, or gives discounts too frequently, or gets complaints from customers going over the MRSP, they can pull the plug.

[unclesallie]

so, bottom line is, the usual: ethical AD's follow the rules, and the cheats take their chances, or sell through grey marketers, and if they get caught, and if Rolex is in the mood, they lose their franchise. In the interim, sounds like there is very uneven enforcement, until Rolex for its own reasons steps on violators. In a similar vein, what is Rolex doing to stop all the illegal sales on the internet of look-alikes? Looks like zero, zippo...you can go to ten sites and buy look alikes(i mean the good ones, all day long for about $250 each; has to amount to millions of dollars in illegal trading/violations of tradename, trademearks, patents.
best,dan

[Earl Camembert]

Originally Posted by unclesallie

In a similar vein, what is Rolex doing to stop all the illegal sales on the internet of look-alikes? Looks like zero, zippo...you can go to ten sites and buy look alikes(i mean the good ones, all day long for about $250 each; has to amount to millions of dollars in illegal trading/violations of tradename, trademearks, patents.
best,dan

Rolex does more than any other watch company to protect its copyright. There was a link in a thread about Rolex sewing scores of internet fake sellers. It is like shoveling crap against the tide.

[kobieta]

Rolex is not allowing ADs to sell over the MSRP, however the ADs will ask for a premium, but the invoice will say MSRP. That's how those ADs make extra money over the ticket prices.

[crimscrem]

Originally Posted by Arturo

Read Brighton...new USSC case several months ago. Manufacturers can insist on MRSP if they choose and that is in agreement. Current antitrust laws very toothless, and not enforced, especially by Bushies. This is USSC new caselaw...not antitrust violation for manufacturer to bar dealer from selling below MRSP. I would think same would go above that. Brighton is a very important case. Rolex is too smart to get rigid like Brighton did with its line of watches. But the principle is the same.

That being said, Rolex can do what it wants. If it thinks that the value of Rolex is being diluted by an AD that puts its watches next to Siekos, or does not have a proper display with sufficient inventory, or gives discounts too frequently, or gets complaints from customers going over the MRSP, they can pull the plug.

Doesn't that case basically say that a manufacturer may insist on a price if it has a reason to do so? My understanding is that it used to be a per se violation, but now may not be so. In other words, insisting on MSRP may still very well be a federal violation. The other thing is that each state has their own anti-competition law, which may prevent Rolex from requiring certain pricing.

[veilstylez]

Originally Posted by kobieta

Rolex is not allowing ADs to sell over the MSRP, however the ADs will ask for a premium, but the invoice will say MSRP. That's how those ADs make extra money over the ticket prices.

I have 2 invoices that says I paid 10.5k for a SS daytonas. Can I bust the AD? Should I

[Arturo]

Let em get ahold of Brighton and read it again. I could have read it very narrowly. I thought the issue was the enforceability of the contract between Brighton and the dealers to not sell below MRSP, and I know that the manufacturers won. crimscrem you could be right.

[crimscrem]

Originally Posted by Arturo

Let em get ahold of Brighton and read it again. I could have read it very narrowly. I thought the issue was the enforceability of the contract between Brighton and the dealers to not sell below MRSP, and I know that the manufacturers won. crimscrem you could be right.

To put it in legal terms, my understanding (I haven't read the case, just talked about it with someone) is that the case changed the standard from per se to the rule of reason. That was the importance and big shift caused by the case. So manufacturers may be able to insist on certain prices under the rule of reason. Ultimately, it might not matter based on stricter state laws.

All I know is that none of the 4 ADs I've spoken with claim to never sell a watch over MSRP. This includes the SS Daytona. Moreover, they all are willing to discount.

[cmr]

i have a friend of mine that is in the appliance business and he told me that subzero has put into effect that none of there dealers are allowed to discount their products. they audit their dealers records and if they find them discounting the products they pull their dealership. with that said it was about 5 years ago that he told me that and it may be different now. he said there were price wars going on to sell the product and subzero felt the image of there company was being diluted and harmed by it. i got my subzero refrigerator a couple of years before all this happened and got a great price on it. i can't imagine life without it now!!! lol