More secure trade between forum member.

[Verifier]

Since people luring others and there is a lot of money involved in watch trading, I say this forum must take a step forward and think about the people that sells and buys watches trough this forum.

Now the current way of selling and buying on this forum is basically ; the buyer/seller contacts the buyer/seller and they come to a conclusion on how to continue with their deal, sometimes it could go smooth, but sometimes if could go wrong. People getting lured of expensive watches and sometimes money.

I say let's start another way to trade. Let me introduce the MM! Aka middleman.

The middleman is a man/woman that is highly trusted on this forum, he/she must be a mod or high reputable user on this forum. The middleman acts like a middleman and what he/she will do is to get both parts stuff and send it to both the buyer/seller. So instead of the buyer/seller sending the watch or money between themselves they send it to the middleman and then the middleman send both parts to its final destination which is to the buyer/seller.

Now the middleman could do this for a fee.
But he/she musy verify that the watch is legit, and if money involved he/she must verify the amount of money.


So here the website, the mods and the users are benefitting from this.


Good day.

[subtona]

Not going to happen... due to Current shortage of Trusted Middlemen.

If it were to come to this, it would be called....AD

[powerfunk]

The facilitator/mods of this site are here to keep this an awesome watch discussion site, and they happen to be gracious enough to let a sales forum thrive here.

Middlemen that take a fee already exist. They're called professional watch sellers.

[HL65]

Never going to happen. We allow the sales forum as an accommodation here. If people would listen to the numerous times we say if you are going to buy here only deal with WELL KNOWN ESTABLUSHED SELLERS WITH GREAT REPUTATIONS problems would be avoided. It is up to members to do their homework. Why anyone in US would ever send watches or money to someone in Romania is beyond me. There are plenty of great sellers here that have had 100% flawless transactions going back years and many of them. When people take it on themselves to go out of the box stuff happens. Too bad and I hope scammers get theirs but the internet is a big place and taking proper precautions is a must and common sense always prevails. We all have choices to make and in the end choose carefully.

[cali kid]

Buy the seller, plenty of good guys selling on this forum and if you stick to them you'll be happy...

[elcompa]

Originally Posted by cali kid

Buy the seller, plenty of good guys selling on this forum and if you stick to them you'll be happy...

Yep, agreed. I have down this twice and will do again.

[Presa canary]

Originally Posted by SteelerFan65

Never going to happen. We allow the sales forum as an accommodation here. If people would listen to the numerous times we say if you are going to buy here only deal with WELL KNOWN ESTABLUSHED SELLERS WITH GREAT REPUTATIONS problems would be avoided. It is up to members to do their homework. Why anyone in US would ever send watches or money to someone in Romania is beyond me. There are plenty of great sellers here that have had 100% flawless transactions going back years and many of them. When people take it on themselves to go out of the box stuff happens. Too bad and I hope scammers get theirs but the internet is a big place and taking proper precautions is a must and common sense always prevails. We all have choices to make and in the end choose carefully.

Well put... I feel bad for those that were taken, but it seems like lots of people were contacted by him, and they felt something was wrong and moved on. You have to really check all your resources if you're going to buy anything online. Especially a wire transfer to Romania.... Sorry op, but a midleman IMO would solve nothing

[Welshwatchman]

Originally Posted by Verifier

Let me introduce the MM! Aka middleman.

The middleman acts like a middleman and what he/she will do is to get both parts stuff and send it to both the buyer/seller.

So instead of the buyer/seller sending the watch or money between themselves they send it to the middleman and then the middleman send both parts to its final destination which is to the buyer/seller.

Now the middleman could do this for a fee.

But he/she must verify that the watch is legit, and if money involved he/she must verify the amount of money.

So here the website, the mods and the users are benefitting from this.

Good day.

Reads easily enough but .......

Consider the practicality for me as the middleman.

Today I receive 25 watches and 10 watch accessories. Perhaps 10-20 deliveries to my home.

I have to unbox 35 parcels, scrutinise all watches and then box everything back up. That's a good 20 hours work that need to be done today since tomorrow there'll be another 35 items for me to accept delivery/verify scrutinise/repackage.

I can't even arrange 35 parcels to be sent throughout the world yet since there's the additional system of payment verification and clearance to be dealt with.

To say that this is impractical is to say the least of it.

Perhaps a bespoke clearing house with a staff of 3 could handle it but then you've got a daily running cost of $1,500 a day ......

If the sales section causes us / members too much grief we will either lock it right down or close it completely.

[padi56]

Originally Posted by SteelerFan65

Never going to happen. We allow the sales forum as an accommodation here. If people would listen to the numerous times we say if you are going to buy here only deal with WELL KNOWN ESTABLUSHED SELLERS WITH GREAT REPUTATIONS problems would be avoided. It is up to members to do their homework. Why anyone in US would ever send watches or money to someone in Romania is beyond me. There are plenty of great sellers here that have had 100% flawless transactions going back years and many of them. When people take it on themselves to go out of the box stuff happens. Too bad and I hope scammers get theirs but the internet is a big place and taking proper precautions is a must and common sense always prevails. We all have choices to make and in the end choose carefully.

Originally Posted by Welshwatchman

Reads easily enough but .......

Consider the practicality for me as the middleman.

Today I receive 25 watches and 10 watch accessories. Perhaps 10-20 deliveries to my home.

I have to unbox 35 parcels, scrutinise all watches and then box everything back up. That's a good 20 hours work that need to be done today since tomorrow there'll be another 35 items for me to accept delivery/verify scrutinise/repackage.

I can't even arrange 35 parcels to be sent throughout the world yet since there's the additional system of payment verification and clearance to be dealt with.

To say that this is impractical is to say the least of it.

Perhaps a bespoke clearing house with a staff of 3 could handle it but then you've got a daily running cost of $1,500 a day ......

If the sales section causes us / members too much grief we will either lock it right down or close it completely.

Have to agree with my fellow mods its not going to happen its up to the buyer or seller to do there own homework.

[Wesley Crusher]

A middleman would never work simply because a scammer would never agree to it in the first place. The only sellers who would agree to ship his/her watch to a middleman is somebody who is an honest person to begin with.

Having said that, I do believe there are a few ways to help prevent scams.

My first problem with the current setup is the WTB section. I would get rid of it. By putting it out to the world that you're looking for a watch, any number of scammers can contact you, pretending to be a trusted seller. If you know what you want, it's easier to contact one of the big sellers here. I would be very surprised if one of the big sellers couldn't get a hold of a specific watch, assuming that it isn't something exceedingly rare.

My second problem is who can view the Classifieds section. At the very least, the Classifieds should be viewable to members only. I also believe that the Classifieds should not be available to new members for a short period. 30 days? 60 days? Finally, I think members should have a minimum post count before viewing and posting in the Classifieds. I'm not talking about something crazy, but maybe 50-100 posts. All of this combined, I believe, is enough to deter a scammer from joining the forum with the sole purpose of ripping somebody off.

I don't think my suggestions are out of this world, but enough to increase the safety of TRF. Beyond that, it's up to the buyers to do their homework before making a purchase.

[subtona]

Originally Posted by Wesley Crusher

A middleman would never work simply because a scammer would never agree to it in the first place. The only sellers who would agree to ship his/her watch to a middleman is somebody who is an honest person to begin with.

Having said that, I do believe there are a few ways to help prevent scams.

My first problem with the current setup is the WTB section. I would get rid of it. By putting it out to the world that you're looking for a watch, any number of scammers can contact you, pretending to be a trusted seller. If you know what you want, it's easier to contact one of the big sellers here. I would be very surprised if one of the big sellers couldn't get a hold of a specific watch, assuming that it isn't something exceedingly rare.

My second problem is who can view the Classifieds section. At the very least, the Classifieds should be viewable to members only. I also believe that the Classifieds should not be available to new members for a short period. 30 days? 60 days? Finally, I think members should have a minimum post count before viewing and posting in the Classifieds. I'm not talking about something crazy, but maybe 50-100 posts. All of this combined, I believe, is enough to deter a scammer from joining the forum with the sole purpose of ripping somebody off.

I don't think my suggestions are out of this world, but enough to increase the safety of TRF. Beyond that, it's up to the buyers to do their homework before making a purchase.

I think the current situation /scammer would have met all those requirements

[Wesley Crusher]

Originally Posted by subtona

I think the current situation /scammer would have met all those requirements

You're right. And that's why I'm confused about what's going on with that guy. I'm hoping this is a big misunderstanding, but I'm not holding my breath...

Since we're on the topic of scammers, why not try to come up with ways to prevent future scams?

[jolimont]

Originally Posted by mailman

The Buy/Sell Board is solely for the use of "The Rolex Forums" (TRF) members as a convenience to members who wish to purchase, sell, or trade watches and watch related paraphernalia only. It is not to be used for any commercial purposes.

TRF has no control over the authenticity or quality of the items advertised, the truth or accuracy of the descriptions, the ability of sellers to deliver items, or the ability of buyers to pay for items. TRF cannot ensure that a buyer or seller will actually complete a transaction. TRF cannot verify the actual identity of buyers or sellers or the authenticity of the goods for sale. TRF accepts no responsibility or liability whatsoever for any transaction or purchase made between any parties as a result of any postings made on any TRF forum.

Buyers are strongly recommended to undertake due diligence with any questions being satisfactorily answered prior to a cent/penny being handed over. If in doubt, walk away from the deal.

This site is not to be used for the commercial exploitation or self-promotion of a business or for any other commercial activity, unless specifically approved by the site administrators. Dealer posts within the "Buy/ Sell" Board are not permitted. Any posts that have a link, or similar, to the user's own or any other business or commercial activities are not permitted and will be deleted.

Any non-genuine, replica or fake watches or any other goods are not permitted to be sold on TRF and will result in a ban.

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=9423

[MonBK]

Originally Posted by Welshwatchman

Reads easily enough but .......

Consider the practicality for me as the middleman.

Today I receive 25 watches and 10 watch accessories. Perhaps 10-20 deliveries to my home.

I have to unbox 35 parcels, scrutinise all watches and then box everything back up. That's a good 20 hours work that need to be done today since tomorrow there'll be another 35 items for me to accept delivery/verify scrutinise/repackage.

I can't even arrange 35 parcels to be sent throughout the world yet since there's the additional system of payment verification and clearance to be dealt with.

To say that this is impractical is to say the least of it.

Perhaps a bespoke clearing house with a staff of 3 could handle it but then you've got a daily running cost of $1,500 a day ......

If the sales section causes us / members too much grief we will either lock it right down or close it completely.

Agree 100% as I've done it a couple of times.

[Rashid.bk]

So now I'd have to worry about two people, twice the amount of concern. I love to be able to do business one on one, I would never do business with a middleman involved.
Another moving part?....no thank you, "kiss"...
It sucks to be a new guy..which at one point I was too, but do the right thing and stick to your word exactly as you say and people will begin to develop trust.

Do not like this idea at all, and just look at the logistics nightmare as described by Paul, that is real and just one of the many concerns. No thanks.

[HL65]

Originally Posted by Wesley Crusher

You're right. And that's why I'm confused about what's going on with that guy. I'm hoping this is a big misunderstanding, but I'm not holding my breath...

Since we're on the topic of scammers, why not try to come up with ways to prevent future scams?

Again this guy Tony1 was a member for 1 year and he had a total of 6 positive feedbacks left on TRF. He was not a long time well known established seller. He also lived in Romania--not that there is anything wrong with that but for me being in the US I would NEVER have done business with a guy with limited feedback living in Romania...Sorry. If you stick to people with long track records and well known history with solid reputations you avoid getting scammed.

[Wesley Crusher]

Originally Posted by SteelerFan65

Again this guy Tony1 was a member for 1 year and he had a total of 6 positive feedbacks left on TRF. He was not a long time well known established seller. He also lived in Romania--not that there is anything wrong with that but for me being in the US I would NEVER have done business with a guy with limited feedback living in Romania...Sorry. If you stick to people with long track records and well known history with solid reputations you avoid getting scammed.

Agreed.

I hate to say it, but I also wouldn't do any business with somebody in another country. There are just too many things that can go wrong. I know Tony wasn't a long time seller, but one could certainly argue that he was on his way to becoming one. It's hard to believe that somebody would invest a year and a have few positive transactions to build somewhat of a reputation all with the intent of scamming somebody in the end, but this situation is huge and there is a lot of money involved, so.... You never know.