Hello!

[rnothog]

Admirer of Rolex since James Bond, grew up and bought a Submariner when overseas many years ago. Wore it and wore it. Sold it for a good bit more than I paid. Bought a new one about 8 years ago - another Submariner.

Seldom got to wear it. I'm a law enforcement type, and used to wrestle the occasional thug, necessitating a long and scratched up history of Casio stuff.

At any rate, I still think that the Submariner is perhaps the most recognizable and classic watch of all times.

Now - on to my dilemma. My watch was like new. Only problem was it needed service due to what I presume was my own goof in setting it (trying to snap the stem down in the wrong position).

Took it to a local official dealer and service center. They did a dandy job of cleaning and repairing the internals - and a dandy job buffing the "I am not kidding like-new case" with nice sharp edges that aren't sharp anymore.

I complained, but have no photo of the timepiece taken at the time I handed it over (when the receiving saleslady said, "Oh, this is like new!") or any statement on the work order as to condition except what I told them about it stopping and starting.

Took it back to complain. Left it for the watchmaker to examine in light of my complaint. Was told, briefly, "well, it was 8 years old and couldn't have been in perfect condition. Watches get beat up in that amount of time."

No offer of a refund, partial or otherwise on the service and repair.

Very disappointed. That watch was perfect. It looks like it came out of an estate sale or pawnshop now.

Any suggestions? Would a complaint to a manufacturer rep be of any use? Seems to me that I can't prove my case, but I know - and they know - I'm right.

I'll be happy to cite which dealer here in Phoenix, if asked.

[Tools]

Welcome to the forums..

Sorry to hear about your watch .....

You know, there are actually a few Rolex Service Centers that make your watch look like new...........and they are not associated with your dealer..

Sounds like your Dealer had their watchmaker fix the watch and then just run the entire watch over a buffer....

A real Service Center (New York, Beverly Hills, or Dallas) can return the case to like new.. Phone numbers are under our FAQ section

[frostie]

Welcome to TRF have a great time here and enjoy the forum

[tandrup]

Welcome to TRF - enjoy!

[SPACE-DWELLER]

Welcome to TRF!

Sorry to hear about this!

Do you have the receipt for the service rendered at the "official dealer and service centre"?

You must be sure that the "official dealer" is indeed an AD (Authorized Dealer) and that RSC (Rolex Service Centre) has approved that he can service the watch without voiding the guarantee.

As I see it, your dealer HAS to set it right, if indeed is entitled to service the watch, or else he might lose his status as an AD.

So first make sure that he is listed as an AD (see Rolex Dealers on rolex.com). After that, contact him again with the information that he has to set it right. If he refuses, contact RSC.

Best of luck!

BTW.: Now that you are a James Bond, check out this passage that "Padi56" wrote about James Bond as the Submariner. Excellent read!

Originally Posted by padi56

Although the cinematic different James Bonds have worn Rolex, Omega,and Seiko watches,to many the choice of which watch Bond wears can only come form his origins. Undoubtedly, the origins of James Bond lie with Ian Fleming and Bond's earliest incarnation in the cinema today.

No one knows exactly why Ian Fleming chose a Rolex for the wrist of James Bond. Perhaps Fleming was impressed by the fact that during World War II, British prisoners of war could write Rolex and receive a watch free of charge delivered directly to their prison camp. Perhaps it was for Rolex's legendary toughness and dependability, or perhaps it was because Fleming wore a Rolex himself. Whatever the reason, Ian Fleming chose a Rolex for his most famous gentleman spy with a license to kill and as such should be considered the main brand of the James Bond watch.

But just what model of Rolex Fleming chose for his spy, he never makes quite clear. Like his clothing choices for Bond, Fleming is vague about the model of Rolex that Bond wears. One of the few references Fleming gives can be found in Chapter 16 of On Her Majesty's Secret Service when Bond prepares to use his Rolex as a knuckle duster: When Bond was brought to the large screen however, the producers clearly had to pick their own model.

According to the book James Bond the Legacy Bond would not just drink champagne, it would be Dom Perignon, and "he could not just wear a watch, it needed to be a Rolex".Now when Rolex declined to provide one of their watches for the production of the film And the budget did not allow for the purchase of one, Cubby Broccoli took his off his wrist and gave it to a member of the art department for use in the film. That Rolex was a Submariner with a very large crown, no crown guards, a coin edge bezel and on a black leather strap.

Many vintage Rolex collectors call all early Submariners without crown guards the James Bond Submariner, while others in the watch collecting field believe, that the watch Connery wore in Dr. No was the Rolex Submariner model 6538. Still other collectors believe that the Submariner Connery wore was more than likely one of four models they are the 6200, 6538A, thick cased 6538 and the 5510. Now IMHO I believe that it is impossible to nail it down to one of the four models, and I'll get into the specifics later.

All four models share the same thick case, a large crown marked Brevet (from the French word Brevette meaning patented), a coin edge non ratcheted bezel, an acrylic crystal, a depth rating of 200m/660ft and Mercedes hands. I should add that only the "thick cased" shoulder-less Submariners had the large winding crown. now, it should also be noted that the 6538 existed first as a thin cased model with a small crown. It became a thick cased model as the 6538A and was available alongside the 6200.

Once the thin cased versions were gone, the 6538A became the 6538 remaining the same until it and the 6200 were replaced by the 5510,well thats Rolex for you confusing as ever.. Since Sean Connery as James Bond only wore the thick cased Submariner (evident by the large crown), none of the thin cased, small crown so called James Bond Submariners without crown guards will be discussed.

IMO the only proper Sean Connery James Bond Submariner

Is one of the thick cased Submariners with the large crown first appeared on Connery's wrist in Dr. No, From Russia With love, Goldfinger, and Thunderball. It is assumed that Connery also wore this watch in You Only Live Twice, but I don't recall seeing it in that movie and to my knowledge it is not in the movie. If someone can direct me to a scene that shows otherwise, I'll happily revise this. By analysing close ups of the Connery Submariner, it is clear that the watch has the big crown with no crown guard,and has a gilt dial , and has Mercedes hands. The bezel insert is the non-graduated version, meaning there are no extra minute markings between 0 and 15 and the bezel pearl is in the centre of a silver triangle. Later versions of the Submariner had the extra minute markings between the 0 and 15 including the ones without crown guards. These observations are important because the watch has characteristics of a 6200, a 6538A, a thick cased 6538 or even a 5510 (depending on whether you discern the depth rating of Connery's watch as white or gilt) despite what so called experts say about it being only a 6538.

To me the proper Bond Submariner, has always had contradictory characteristics with respect to the exact model. In fact I have never seen another untouched version exactly like it. Firstly, the non-graduated bezel insert is that of the earliest thick cased, large crown Submariners, the 6200. However, on the mid 50's version of 6200, there is only one line of printing on the lower part of the dial, the word "SUBMARINER" in gilt, because although it was rated to a depth of 200m/660ft it did not yet appear on the dial.

The late 50's 6200, 6538A and 6538 did have the two lines of printing on the lower part of the dial (chronometer versions of the 6538A and thick cased 6538 had 4 lines) and the depth rating was printed in white while the word "SUBMARINER" was in gilt. As Now On the 5510, late 50's models had both the depth rating and the word "SUBMARINER" in the same colour, gilt. To further make things even harder, the late 50's 6200, 6538A, 6538 and 5510 had graduated bezel inserts, and the triangle containing the luminous pearl was red. As I said before, the Connery Submariner has a non-graduated bezel insert and the triangle containing the pearl was silver.

So what does all that mean, probably not much. The fact of the matter is that at this time Rolex often used up older parts even when they went to a new model. So it would be entirely possible to have 6538A with a 6200 bezel insert. Also, it's quite possible that a 6538 or 5510 could have been serviced during its ownership by a service centre having older parts which means that a 6538 or a 5510 might end up having a 6200 bezel insert.

So unless the Broccoli family, who are rumoured to have the original watch, furnishes the exact model number, we may never know the exact model number of the Connery Bond Submariner. However with the wealth of parts available, it is possible to achieve the same look using the 6200, 6538A, thick cased 6538 or the 5510 Submariner because they all share the same case and big Brevet crown. But, be warned, some collectors and myself hate to restore or change watches. And IMHO its better to have an original beat up watch, than a pristine restored one. Luckily, there is a building trend now toward gentle restoration.

Movements in the Different Models

The 6200, 6538A, 6538 and the 5510 all had different movements. The 6200 had the A296, while the 6538A and thick cased 6538 had the 1030. The movement in the 5510 was the 1530 (although some military versions had the 1520 movement).Rolex at this time done a lot of strange things,and used any part movement to make a complete watch.


The 1530 and 1520 movement are the same movements used in the later 5513 Submariners of Lazenby and Moore fame. The 15XX series of movements are considered among the best Rolex ever made, so the 5510 with the old style case coupled with the newer movement make it the most wearable of the Connery Bond Submariners, however it was made in very low numbers and is considered quite rare,and now very collectible.

The Bond Strap

In Dr. No and From Russia With Love, Connery wears his Submariner on a crocodile or perhaps alligator strap; if you look at close-ups of the strap, you'll see striations consistent with a crocodile or alligator skin. However, by Goldfinger and later Thunderball, Connery sports his Submariner on an 18mm black cloth NATO/MOD type strap with twin grey service stripes. So, why the change? Although this is conjecture on my part, it is possible that the producers became aware of the early military Submariner that was available to the Royal and Canadian Navies. By extension, I believe the nylon strap was chosen to give the on-screen Bond a military bearing, especially to those in the know.

The early military Submariner was differently optioned than civilian Submariners and was, among other things, fitted with fixed bars between the lugs instead of spring bars to accommodate a cloth NATO/MOD type grey strap. The reasons for such straps were that they were anti-reflective, and easily cut off, if necessary. For this reason some have speculated that the Submariner that Connery wears in Goldfinger and Thunderball was an early military Submariner, however I don't believe that is true. When you look at close-ups of Connery's Submariner, you can clearly see that the strap is attached with spring bars between 20mm lugs as evidenced by holes in the lugs. A military Submariner would have filled lug holes.

George Lazenby, Roger Moore and the Rolex 5513 Submariner

In On Her Majesty's Secret Service, George Lazenby dons a Rolex Submariner 5513. It has been written that Lazenby wanted the part of Bond so bad that he went out and bought his own Rolex and got one of Connery's suits from Anthony Sinclair. It's quite possible that the watch Lazenby wore in his first outing as Bond was his own purchase. The Lazeby Submariner had crown guards, and a metal riveted bracelet.

In Roger Moore's first and second outings as Bond, he wears a 5513 Rolex Submariner. Unlike Lazenby's Submariner, Moore's Rolex is seen in more detail, at least in Live and Let Die. In this instance the dial has white printing and inducer's. It should be noted however that the depth rating on Moore's Submariner is shown above the word Submariner on the lower part of the dial rather than below it. The depth also appears as 660ft=200m rather than 200m=660ft. This is important because 5513's are available with the alternate dial printing as described. The reason for these differences had to do with the regions for which the Submariners were made and the years in which they were produced.

Moore's Submariner also had a bezel with a saw tooth edge. The original bezel was re-cut to accommodate the watch, with a little movie magic, functioning as a saw. The hyper-intensified magnet function of the watch was shown to be activated when the watch induces turned red. Separate 5513 Submariners were re-worked by the prop department to accommodate these functions. When Moore returned in The Man With The Golden Gun he was again seen wearing a 5513, however the watch had no special function used in the movie and is easily missed. Moore began sporting Seiko's in all subsequent outings as Bond probably because of a better endorsement deal on the part of Seiko.

Movements of the Rolex 5513

The movement in the 5513 Submariner is either the 1530 or 1520. Again, the type of movement is dependant on where and when they were made. The 1520 was the less expensive version having fewer jewels. As I said before, the 15XX series of movements are considered some of the best movements that Rolex ever used. For this reason, the 5513 is probably one of the best vintage Submariners for everyday wear.

Timothy Dalton and the Rolex 16800/168000 Submariner

When Timothy Dalton assumed the role of James Bond he was wearing a Rolex Submariner with a date function, the first Bond ever to do so and also the last Bond to date to wear a Rolex. Because of the time frame when Dalton made his Bond movies, it is likely that Dalton wore the 16800 and later perhaps the 168000 Submariner.

From what I've been able to ascertain, the only difference between these two models is the upgrade in stainless steel from316 L to mixed 316L and 904L grade SS,and crystal.
__________________

[Lol-x]

Welcome
That is a crying shame and I would feel so angry if a watchmaker polished the hell out of a case. The problem is you can't put metal back that has been polished off.
You can get a new case from Rolex, that is your only option, but they will want to service the whole watch.
Proof is going to be your word against the watchmaker (butcher). They may settle out of court. You could give it a go in a small claims type court. If you show you know what you are talking about to the judge/magistrate, there is every chance you will be believed over the watchmaker. Don't delay if you are going ahead.
Good Luck I feel your loss.

[Alcan]

Hi there, welcome aboard!

You'll be in good company here, we have quite a few police and military members.

The issue of an over-polished watch case is going to be a tough row to hoe without having before pix, pretty subjective. Good luck with it and keep us posted.

[Robb]

Welcome!

[Earl]

sorry to hear this.. but, this happened due to it's not being sent to a
RSC. I feel for you man, live and learn is my motto!

[mdx77]

Welcome! Enjoy your stay....

You'll soon see we're all a bunch of nuts!

......hey Bo...stop clogging up the poor mans 1st post....sheesh

[marty mehl]

Originally Posted by rnothog

Admirer of Rolex since James Bond, grew up and bought a Submariner when overseas many years ago. Wore it and wore it. Sold it for a good bit more than I paid. Bought a new one about 8 years ago - another Submariner.

Seldom got to wear it. I'm a law enforcement type, and used to wrestle the occasional thug, necessitating a long and scratched up history of Casio stuff.

At any rate, I still think that the Submariner is perhaps the most recognizable and classic watch of all times.

Now - on to my dilemma. My watch was like new. Only problem was it needed service due to what I presume was my own goof in setting it (trying to snap the stem down in the wrong position).

Took it to a local official dealer and service center. They did a dandy job of cleaning and repairing the internals - and a dandy job buffing the "I am not kidding like-new case" with nice sharp edges that aren't sharp anymore.

I complained, but have no photo of the timepiece taken at the time I handed it over (when the receiving saleslady said, "Oh, this is like new!") or any statement on the work order as to condition except what I told them about it stopping and starting.

Took it back to complain. Left it for the watchmaker to examine in light of my complaint. Was told, briefly, "well, it was 8 years old and couldn't have been in perfect condition. Watches get beat up in that amount of time."

No offer of a refund, partial or otherwise on the service and repair.

Very disappointed. That watch was perfect. It looks like it came out of an estate sale or pawnshop now.

Any suggestions? Would a complaint to a manufacturer rep be of any use? Seems to me that I can't prove my case, but I know - and they know - I'm right.

I'll be happy to cite which dealer here in Phoenix, if asked.

what dealer was it i live in the area i do not want to make a mistake

[rnothog]

Thanks for the warm welcome.

I responded privately to Marty regarding the service center - and it is an authorized Rolex Service Center.

Looking at the watch, it does look nice, if not new...and I know enough to be pretty sure I have no case against the place.

Next time, I will have them document the heck out of the condition no matter where I take it. Funny, but I have a Harley motorcycle and the service writers always go over it with a fine tooth comb, documenting any little flaw, before accepting it for service - and I do the same when I pick it up.

Why I did not think to do this with a very valuable timepiece is a mystery to me...

Anyhow, thanks for the welcome and all of the info!