1680 insert--what color is this?

[southtexas]

I picked up this insert recently, but comparing it to mine, it doesn't appear to be a faded black on silver font. It looks like a faded black or blue with faded gold font.

Thoughts?






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[nsumner]

First, very nice insert!

This did start life as a black with silver font but has faded to give the silver an almost brown color. I've had a few of these before, I believe the batch of paint in these just faded a bit different then some. I love the look on these.

[CrownMe]

great insert i bet it would look great fitted to your Red. font matches the patina nicely

[nycpassat]

Originally Posted by CrownMe

great insert i bet it would look great fitted to your Red. font matches the patina nicely

Agreed, swap it out and it will match nicely with your markers and hands.

here's mine with the gold tone insert bezel

[PoderEsBueno]

Lovely fade on that insert

[MitchSteel]

That blue insert looks very nice.

[springer]

It is oven baked or spent some time in a fry pan - hence the the brown color. It is done to fade the bezel but usually turns out like this.

[Goula1979]

Looks same to me as this watch. Do you think it's the same "baking" process to create a fade?

http://www.hqmilton.com/watches/1970...box-and-papers

[southtexas]

Interesting differences of opinion here, followed up with examples of similarly colored inserts from a well-known legit dealer's website.

What other "tells" would there be on the insert if it indeed was "fake baked"?

[Goula1979]

I don't know enough to have an opinion, but I think it's interesting to see a very trusted seller with a 1680w/insert that looks similar. If you search 1680s at their site you will see others with a similar "bronze-ish" look, but none quite as much as this one. It would be good to know if there were any other indicators as you said. Scary to think altered inserts could be so common.

[springer]

Originally Posted by Goula1979

Looks same to me as this watch. Do you think it's the same "baking" process to create a fade?

http://www.hqmilton.com/watches/1970...box-and-papers

No, not even the same ballpark as the one in Robbie's post.

[springer]

Originally Posted by southtexas

Interesting differences of opinion here, followed up with examples of similarly colored inserts from a well-known legit dealer's website.

What other "tells" would there be on the insert if it indeed was "fake baked"?

The insert on Jacek's Sub is not similar at all. The silver is not "bronze, brown or yellowed" like the one in the first post.

Let's stay on topic and not draw in other inserts alright guys. Robbie, you wanted an opinion and I gave mine. Heat turns them brown, maybe not the one in your post, but I would not bet against it...not at all. There could be other explanations, but seriously, this is not common at all.

[springer]

Originally Posted by Goula1979

I don't know enough to have an opinion, but I think it's interesting to see a very trusted seller with a 1680w/insert that looks similar. If you search 1680s at their site you will see others with a similar "bronze-ish" look, but none quite as much as this one. It would be good to know if there were any other indicators as you said. Scary to think altered inserts could be so common.

I'm sure Jacek will be around to straighten you out!!!

[CrownMe]

Originally Posted by springer

The insert on Jacek's Sub is not similar at all. The silver is not brown.

Let's stay on topic and not draw in other inserts alright guys. Robbie, you wanted an opinion and I gave mine. Heat turns them brown, maybe not this one, but I would not bet against it...not at all.

its nice to see people give a honest opinion even if its not good news.

[nsumner]

Originally Posted by springer

The insert on Jacek's Sub is not similar at all. The silver is not brown like the one in the first post.

Let's stay on topic and not draw in other inserts alright guys. Robbie, you wanted an opinion and I gave mine. Heat turns them brown, maybe not the one in your post, but I would not bet against it...not at all. The could be other explanations, but seriously, this is not common at all.

Yeah, the one from HQ isn't nearly as brown but I'm still not too sure this isn't a legit fade. I wish I had a pic, I've had at least two very similar and from the same time frame. Both of which were from primary sources, original owner watches that had their inserts swapped at service time for service pieces.

One question.....What does the back look like?

[nsumner]

Originally Posted by CrownMe

its nice to see people give a honest opinion even if its not good news.

Yes it is!

[Goula1979]

Hopefully, no straightening out is needed. I didn't draw the comparison to call Jacek's items into question. I thought SouthTX's insert looked familiar so I was looked for something somewhat similar to ask about spotting differences. Thanks for the insight on the differences.

[jdmi32]

I actually prefer the one that you have on right now. Any reason why you're considering swapping it out? Gorgeous red you have there, BTW.

[southtexas]

Originally Posted by springer

The insert on Jacek's Sub is not similar at all. The silver is not "bronze, brown or yellowed" like the one in the first post.

Let's stay on topic and not draw in other inserts alright guys. Robbie, you wanted an opinion and I gave mine. Heat turns them brown, maybe not the one in your post, but I would not bet against it...not at all. The could be other explanations, but seriously, this is not common at all.

Here's a pic from the other insert. It certainly has a "non-silver" tint to my eyes from this angle.

The one in my possession looks normal (silver) at certain angles, at other angles it has the bronze look (I took the pics in such a way as to emphasize the bronze).

I started this thread bc I did have questions about it and don't want to pass along a compromised piece, and I certainly welcome all opinions (I did ask for them after all!).

It is what it is; I'm just curious what "it" is. Seller has graciously offered a no-questions return, so there's nothing at stake other than determining if it's legit.

Would there be any other effects from heat to the insert?




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[JerimiahLee]

Originally Posted by springer

No, not even the same ballpark as the one in Robbie's post.

Agreed. These are very different types of patina.

As John mentioned I have also seen other brown "baked" inserts. Some don't mind them, I typically pass on those or replace them.

[the_general_trader]

Well, I think springer has brought up an interesting point. i think theres got to be some one out there with a nos 1680 insert. take a picture before. put tape on the back. pop it in an oven 450 for a couple of hours like a turkey. and show us what the result looks like vs the original. if we have two nos inserts, someone could drop it into a frying pan too ;-)

what a fun experiment!

[MitchSteel]

I've read a thread on a certain German Rolex forum about guys baking their inserts in the oven and such, they all had a darkest numeral plots.I guess the clear coat darkens with baking, that's a bit of a giveaway.
Baking dials too.......

[michel33]

IMHO:

Your insert is 100% Kosher. It is a Mark I "Kissing four" insert and features a "bronze-ish" font color tone along with a Blue/greysih fade.
When you bake/ fry an insert, the black color never fades to blue/grey, it becomes "brown/chocolate/tropical". If you fade it chemically, the insert may turn gray/blue, but will lose its varnish, it is easy to spot one.

I think yours is a very nice example.

Jacek's 1680 insert is also a Mark 1 "Kissing four" featuring a blue/greysih hue, and to my eyes it appears that the fonts are not silver at all, but more in a bronze-ish tonality, like yours. The fonts nearly have the same patina as the dial markers...
A very lovely example as well imho.

See the NYCPASSAT'S insert posted above (third pic), same story, a MK1 insert.

To finish with, my Mark 1 kissing four, coming directly from a retired watchmaker's stock, the hue is also blueish/greyish, the fonts are not as bronze-ish than Jacek's or yours, but are definitely not silver anymore.

My guess is that the varnish used for these inserts turned the original silver font in this "bronze-ish" colour tone.

[watchcrank]

Seems to be many ways to fade an insert now days. and you can not always tell from back 'there are ways I'm told to coat the back before artificial fade. I have seen a lot of inserts and there are very few natural faded brown ones imho and from specific periods of manufacture. That said, I still like the look and as long as advertised as such no problem to me. m

[southtexas]

More pics. It's interesting to note the ring of color change, which is fairly consistent around the entire bezel. It is more blue around the outside-middle and darkening as it moves toward the crystal.






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[Vincent65]

Looks gorgeous to me. No way of saying definitively what experiences it has been though, of course - except the previous owner/s. I've seen quite a few like this.

[Jetkopite]

I think it looks like a gorgeous genuine insert as is the original insert you are replacing...