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Tools · 19 March 2009, 10:14 AM

If there is a weak part in the Rolex 3135 movement, it is likely the Rotor Axle. This piece provides the pivot point for the self-wind counterweight (Rotor) that rides on top of the movement and it is always in motion when the watch is worn. It extends into the reverser module bushing and rides on the Rotor Axle Jewel..

Lubrication of this item is critical for the auto-wind mechanism to function properly...

Here is where the part that we are talking about is located.......

Here is what it looks like when removed from the rotor:

The Rotor Axle is another tiny part, and although it is easy to see in these overgrown photos, it isn't much bigger than one of the dots on your Rolex dial:

Looking more closely at this part, we can see the wear and tear and why it is a good candidate for change-out at service time. A new one will not have the ridge and flat top like shown as this is where the jewel rides and provides a bearing surface.

Speaking of Jewels, here is the rotor jewel that also required replacement. You can see the damage and can easily see why the axle would no be held securely in place and allow the oscillating counter weight to wobble, hitting the top of the movement case and bridges.

Placing the two together, you can see how these fit together during use:

And, lastly, you can see how the broken and worn Rotor Axle Lower Jewel is a poor fit on an already worn axle....Both of these Rotor Axles are worn beyond serviceable use.

JF23 · 19 March 2009, 11:42 AM

Thanks Vanessa and Larry! Very informative.

Vanessa CW21 · 19 March 2009, 01:19 PM

Well done once more Larry!

onkyo · 19 March 2009, 02:17 PM

Thanks Larry for those great close up pics!

Skutt50 · 19 March 2009, 04:03 PM

Great info Vanessa and Lary. Many thanks!

I also wonder how often the problems you describe occur. Could you try some rough estimate on how often you have to change parts like in this tread the rotor axis. One in every 100:d watch or perhaps 10, 25 or even 50 out of 100?

JJ Irani · 19 March 2009, 04:12 PM

Hey guys.....this is absolutely superb information and so damn interesting.

Thanks a million!!!

Latrodectus · 19 March 2009, 05:27 PM

Wow, it is getting better and better...if that is possible. Thank you guys!

buz-lh · 19 March 2009, 06:48 PM

Excellent illustrations and explanations. How long did it take these rotor axles and jewels to get to this stage? Why has Rolex never used ball bearings on their rotor axles as most other manufacturers have?

Vanessa CW21 · 20 March 2009, 01:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skutt50

Great info Vanessa and Lary. Many thanks!

I also wonder how often the problems you describe occur. Could you try some rough estimate on how often you have to change parts like in this tread the rotor axis. One in every 100:d watch or perhaps 10, 25 or even 50 out of 100?

70%?? It is the most common problem. (the axle, not the jewel)

Usually it's caused by impact... So it can happen to a 1 year old watch (which is under warranty) or a 15 year-old watch that's never been serviced before, you just never know.

This is the reason why some recommend not to golf with your watch on, unless you NEVER hit the ground

That kind of impact could be enough to hurt the rotor axle.

Vanessa CW21 · 20 March 2009, 01:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buz-lh

Excellent illustrations and explanations. How long did it take these rotor axles and jewels to get to this stage? Why has Rolex never used ball bearings on their rotor axles as most other manufacturers have?

The ball bearing is patented by ETA I believe.

diablojota · 20 March 2009, 01:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vanessa

70%?? It is the most common problem. (the axle, not the jewel)

Usually it's caused by impact... So it can happen to a 1 year old watch (which is under warranty) or a 15 year-old watch that's never been serviced before, you just never know.

This is the reason why some recommend not to golf with your watch on, unless you NEVER hit the ground

That kind of impact could be enough to hurt the rotor axle.

Thanks for the information Larry and Vanessa.

I think that my last golf outing is what caused my watch to go wonky, hence the send off for servicing. I don't take my watch off, ever. Although I don't have a tendency to grind my clubs. The first question they asked me was if I had dropped the watch. Impossible for me to do, since it doesn't leave my wrist. But after five years, it was time for a service. It was looking a bit beat up.

SSD · 20 March 2009, 01:43 AM

Excellent information, superbly illustrated! Thanks, guys!

Nods · 20 March 2009, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vanessa

70%?? It is the most common problem. (the axle, not the jewel)

Usually it's caused by impact... So it can happen to a 1 year old watch (which is under warranty) or a 15 year-old watch that's never been serviced before, you just never know.

This is the reason why some recommend not to golf with your watch on, unless you NEVER hit the ground

That kind of impact could be enough to hurt the rotor axle.

Thank goodness I hate golf! But what about Clay Target shooting, should I take it off to shoot? (I hate taking my GMT off.)

hwilsdorf · 22 March 2009, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vanessa

This is the reason why some recommend not to golf with your watch on, unless you NEVER hit the ground

That kind of impact could be enough to hurt the rotor axle.

good thing I couldn't afford a Rolex then, when I used to play golf (now I don't have spare time for it).

Wesley Crusher · 13 January 2015, 01:27 PM

Sorry to bring up such an old thread, but I have a few questions.

1) Larry, you mentioned that this is a problem with the 3135. Is this issue most commonly seen on the 3135 or can it happen with other movements, too?

2) Would this issue cause the rotor to wobble? When I hold my 1675 and gently shake it, I feel, what I believe to be the rotor, wobbling (keep in mind, I am not rotating the watch to make the rotor spin). It feels and sounds as if the rotor is wobbling around the central point (i.e., the rotor axle).

I have tried to replicate this with a new Rolex and I cannot replicate the feeling/sound. In fact, with the new Rolex, I don't hear anything. It's as if the movement/rotor is rock solid.

Vanessa CW21 · 13 January 2015, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wesley Crusher

Sorry to bring up such an old thread, but I have a few questions.

1) Larry, you mentioned that this is a problem with the 3135. Is this issue most commonly seen on the 3135 or can it happen with other movements, too?

2) Would this issue cause the rotor to wobble? When I hold my 1675 and gently shake it, I feel, what I believe to be the rotor, wobbling (keep in mind, I am not rotating the watch to make the rotor spin). It feels and sounds as if the rotor is wobbling around the central point (i.e., the rotor axle).

I have tried to replicate this with a new Rolex and I cannot replicate the feeling/sound. In fact, with the new Rolex, I don't hear anything. It's as if the movement/rotor is rock solid.

1) Yes, it can happen with all the automatic (rotor axle) movements.
2) The wobble can be caused by several problems, and one of them would most definitely be a worn rotor axle!

Wesley Crusher · 13 January 2015, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vanessa CW21

1) Yes, it can happen with all the automatic (rotor axle) movements.
2) The wobble can be caused by several problems, and one of them would most definitely be a worn rotor axle!

Thanks, Vanessa.

In your opinion, how similar should an older movement (1575, in my case) feel compared to a new movement? Holding a new Rolex and moving it around, everything feels tight with no odd sounds or vibrations. Of course an older movement with worn/broken parts will not feel/sound right, but assuming everything checks out, should it feel similar to a new movement (i.e., tight - no odd noises or vibrations/wobbles) or am I being too optimistic?

Vanessa CW21 · 13 January 2015, 05:01 PM

Yes you're too optimistic.
They feel different. Not just because of age but the overall mechanics are different too.

Sublover2166 · 15 January 2015, 01:06 AM

Doesn't the Daytona use a bearing instead of a jewel to support the rotor axle? I know on the 3135, this part is the Achilles heel of the movement. This part along with mainspring are automatic replacements with a movement service with all CW21 watchmakers right? Does RSC consider the rotor axle to be routinely replaced on a movement service? What is the lubricant properties like that lubricate the axle jewel? Is it a higher viscosity oil than other oils in the movement? Obviously if the lube dries up, it spells trouble!

Hawk99 · 15 January 2015, 05:27 AM

Hi Vanessa and All,
I have a quick question as well......

(1977 1680) Serviced 3 years ago, and running spot on. The independent watchmaker that did the work advised me of the worn axle, but said it would be fine for time being (that was 3 years ago). He has now retired and moved away.

The rotor is now clearly worn, and I get the buzzing and wobble which clear indicates this. I have called a couple of local Rolex repair places (Not a RSC), to have this one part looked at and replaced. Both have replied that they will not do anything without a full service.
Is this neccessary? Or are they just trying to up sell me?
Thanks!

Sublover2166 · 15 January 2015, 07:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hawk99

Hi Vanessa and All,
I have a quick question as well......

(1977 1680) Serviced 3 years ago, and running spot on. The independent watchmaker that did the work advised me of the worn axle, but said it would be fine for time being (that was 3 years ago). He has now retired and moved away.

The rotor is now clearly worn, and I get the buzzing and wobble which clear indicates this. I have called a couple of local Rolex repair places (Not a RSC), to have this one part looked at and replaced. Both have replied that they will not do anything without a full service.
Is this neccessary? Or are they just trying to up sell me?
Thanks!

If the rotor is wobbling and making metal to metal contact with either the case back or bridge it will create "brake dust" which can get into the movement and wear parts out. A full service would be in order. Happened with my 16613 when I heard something flopping around inside as I moved the watch around. Was a broken rotor axle. This happened only 2 years after a service at RSC, so not sure they even replaced new when serviced. And the watch was not dropped or did not receive a hard blow of any kind.

Hawk99 · 16 January 2015, 04:18 AM

Thanks John,
No scraping yet. Just the very annoying buzzing, vibrating end shake. Bugs the hell out of me.
Didn't expect trying to pay someone to get this fixed would be so difficult.

MikeMc · 20 January 2015, 10:05 AM

Vanessa, correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the kind of wear on the weight axel shown is most often from the oil inside the jewel has dried up, and the wear is from the difference between the hardness of the synthetic ruby and the metal of the axel. This causes the groove in the axel. The broken jewel is another issue, usually impact.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Vanessa CW21 · 20 January 2015, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeMc

Vanessa, correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the kind of wear on the weight axel shown is most often from the oil inside the jewel has dried up, and the wear is from the difference between the hardness of the synthetic ruby and the metal of the axel. This causes the groove in the axel. The broken jewel is another issue, usually impact.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

You are correct.

SearChart · 22 January 2015, 04:04 AM

Great information, thank you Larry & Vanessa.

hsfrank · 22 January 2015, 04:22 AM

Interesting thread. Thank you Vanessa and Larry.

rmfnla · 22 January 2015, 05:00 AM

Terrific photos, too...

strafer_kid · 26 January 2015, 07:49 AM

Presumably the rotor on the 3135 can rotate in both directions? Also, is this similar to all Rolex movements?

19 March 2009, 10:14 AM	#1
Tools TRF Moderator & 2024 SubLV41 Patron Join Date: May 2007 Real Name: Larry Location: Mojave Desert Watch: GMT's Posts: 43,487	Vanessa's Parts Insp. #3... Rotor Axle and Lower Axle Jewel.. If there is a weak part in the Rolex 3135 movement, it is likely the Rotor Axle. This piece provides the pivot point for the self-wind counterweight (Rotor) that rides on top of the movement and it is always in motion when the watch is worn. It extends into the reverser module bushing and rides on the Rotor Axle Jewel.. Lubrication of this item is critical for the auto-wind mechanism to function properly... Here is where the part that we are talking about is located....... Here is what it looks like when removed from the rotor: The Rotor Axle is another tiny part, and although it is easy to see in these overgrown photos, it isn't much bigger than one of the dots on your Rolex dial: Looking more closely at this part, we can see the wear and tear and why it is a good candidate for change-out at service time. A new one will not have the ridge and flat top like shown as this is where the jewel rides and provides a bearing surface. Speaking of Jewels, here is the rotor jewel that also required replacement. You can see the damage and can easily see why the axle would no be held securely in place and allow the oscillating counter weight to wobble, hitting the top of the movement case and bridges. Placing the two together, you can see how these fit together during use: And, lastly, you can see how the broken and worn Rotor Axle Lower Jewel is a poor fit on an already worn axle....Both of these Rotor Axles are worn beyond serviceable use. __________________ (Chill ... It's just a watch Forum.....) NAWCC Member

19 March 2009, 01:19 PM	#3
Vanessa CW21 TechXpert & 2016 Patron Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Mx Posts: 1,572	Well done once more Larry! __________________ Member# 5731 Instagram: @vanessa.cw21 Watch my Rolex repair video: https://youtu.be/jDnaotCTpTA

19 March 2009, 04:12 PM	#6
JJ Irani Fondly Remembered Join Date: May 2005 Real Name: JJ Location: Auckland, NZ Watch: ALL SOLD!! Posts: 74,319	Hey guys.....this is absolutely superb information and so damn interesting. Thanks a million!!! __________________ Words fail me in expressing my utmost thanks to ALL of you for this wonderful support during my hour of need!! I firmly believe that my time on planet earth is NOT yet up!! I shall fight this to the very end.......and WIN!!

19 March 2009, 05:27 PM	#7
Latrodectus 2024 SubLV41 Pledge Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Real Name: Fred Location: KY, USA Watch: GMT-Master II Posts: 10,039	Wow, it is getting better and better...if that is possible. Thank you guys! __________________ Member # 16057 4-Hands Club Tosser Club Member TRF Skypers Group

19 March 2009, 06:48 PM	#8
buz-lh "TRF" Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Real Name: Buz Location: Atlanta Watch: Rolex Tudor Pam Posts: 5,108	Excellent illustrations and explanations. How long did it take these rotor axles and jewels to get to this stage? Why has Rolex never used ball bearings on their rotor axles as most other manufacturers have? __________________ Buz The faster you move, the slower time passes, the longer you live. Peter Diamandis

19 March 2009, 11:42 AM	#2
JF23 "TRF" Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: S Florida Posts: 1,899	Thanks Vanessa and Larry! Very informative.

19 March 2009, 02:17 PM	#4
onkyo Banned Join Date: Apr 2008 Real Name: Pav Location: Manhattan Posts: 11,495	Thanks Larry for those great close up pics!

19 March 2009, 04:03 PM	#5
Skutt50 "TRF" Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Real Name: Steven Location: Sweden Watch: Old English Fusee Posts: 246	Great info Vanessa and Lary. Many thanks! I also wonder how often the problems you describe occur. Could you try some rough estimate on how often you have to change parts like in this tread the rotor axis. One in every 100:d watch or perhaps 10, 25 or even 50 out of 100?

20 March 2009, 01:43 AM	#12
SSD "TRF" Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Real Name: Jamie Location: Georgia Watch: Stainless Sub Date Posts: 3,023	Excellent information, superbly illustrated! Thanks, guys! __________________ SUBMARINER OWNERS' CLUB ESTABLISHED 1953 TRF Member # 5464

13 January 2015, 01:27 PM	#15
Wesley Crusher "TRF" Member Join Date: Aug 2013 Real Name: Wes Location: Holosuite Posts: 6,345	Sorry to bring up such an old thread, but I have a few questions. 1) Larry, you mentioned that this is a problem with the 3135. Is this issue most commonly seen on the 3135 or can it happen with other movements, too? 2) Would this issue cause the rotor to wobble? When I hold my 1675 and gently shake it, I feel, what I believe to be the rotor, wobbling (keep in mind, I am not rotating the watch to make the rotor spin). It feels and sounds as if the rotor is wobbling around the central point (i.e., the rotor axle). I have tried to replicate this with a new Rolex and I cannot replicate the feeling/sound. In fact, with the new Rolex, I don't hear anything. It's as if the movement/rotor is rock solid.

13 January 2015, 05:01 PM	#18
Vanessa CW21 TechXpert & 2016 Patron Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Mx Posts: 1,572	Yes you're too optimistic. They feel different. Not just because of age but the overall mechanics are different too. __________________ Member# 5731 Instagram: @vanessa.cw21 Watch my Rolex repair video: https://youtu.be/jDnaotCTpTA

15 January 2015, 01:06 AM	#19
Sublover2166 Banned Join Date: Mar 2012 Real Name: John Location: Manassas,Virginia Watch: Ol'Bluesy & Hulk Posts: 2,871	Doesn't the Daytona use a bearing instead of a jewel to support the rotor axle? I know on the 3135, this part is the Achilles heel of the movement. This part along with mainspring are automatic replacements with a movement service with all CW21 watchmakers right? Does RSC consider the rotor axle to be routinely replaced on a movement service? What is the lubricant properties like that lubricate the axle jewel? Is it a higher viscosity oil than other oils in the movement? Obviously if the lube dries up, it spells trouble!

15 January 2015, 05:27 AM	#20
Hawk99 "TRF" Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: BC Posts: 388	Hi Vanessa and All, I have a quick question as well...... (1977 1680) Serviced 3 years ago, and running spot on. The independent watchmaker that did the work advised me of the worn axle, but said it would be fine for time being (that was 3 years ago). He has now retired and moved away. The rotor is now clearly worn, and I get the buzzing and wobble which clear indicates this. I have called a couple of local Rolex repair places (Not a RSC), to have this one part looked at and replaced. Both have replied that they will not do anything without a full service. Is this neccessary? Or are they just trying to up sell me? Thanks!

16 January 2015, 04:18 AM	#22
Hawk99 "TRF" Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: BC Posts: 388	Thanks John, No scraping yet. Just the very annoying buzzing, vibrating end shake. Bugs the hell out of me. Didn't expect trying to pay someone to get this fixed would be so difficult.

20 January 2015, 10:05 AM	#23
MikeMc "TRF" Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Oregon Watch: own 18 watches Posts: 117	Vanessa, correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the kind of wear on the weight axel shown is most often from the oil inside the jewel has dried up, and the wear is from the difference between the hardness of the synthetic ruby and the metal of the axel. This causes the groove in the axel. The broken jewel is another issue, usually impact. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

22 January 2015, 04:22 AM	#26
hsfrank "TRF" Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Real Name: Herbert Frank Location: Middletown,De Watch: President Posts: 1,641	Interesting thread. Thank you Vanessa and Larry. __________________ Time and Tide wait for no man Rolex Cellini 4133 Tudor North Flag HERS: Rolex TTDJ

22 January 2015, 05:00 AM	#27
rmfnla "TRF" Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Real Name: Richard Location: Los Angeles, CA Watch: TT DJ Posts: 4,456	Terrific photos, too... __________________ Today, I believe my jurisdiction ends here... Lug Hole Lover®

26 January 2015, 07:49 AM	#28
strafer_kid "TRF" Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Real Name: Kenny Location: northern ireland Watch: SDs, Subs & GMTs Posts: 5,136	Presumably the rotor on the 3135 can rotate in both directions? Also, is this similar to all Rolex movements?

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