newbie advice please

[Londoner999]

I’d appreciate some advice as I’ve never owned a watch before and am a complete novice to all this. I’ve been into an AD in London, where I live, and tried various watched on and after much debate, decided to get a submariner (no date). The (very lovely) sales assistant quoted £5000, which is what I expected. They didn’t have one in stock, so I gave her my number and said that I’d pop back and would consider putting a deposit down for when they got one. However, I then got thinking about the Euro exchange rate and made contact with an AD in a nearby European country. Indeed, the price in Euros was lower than £5000 and after some negotiation over email they agreed to a discount. This, combined with the exchange rate, means that the watch (including insurance and shipping) is only £4300. That’s a saving of £700. To me, this is really good deal – almost too good though perhaps. Am I missing something? Why doesn’t everyone in the UK do this? As this is the first ever watch I’ve bought, I can’t believe I’ve stumbled across something that no one else has thought of. Part of me feels reassured because they are a very well known jewellers and watch seller and are Rolex AD, the other part of me is worried as I don’t want to get scammed. I’m also slightly wary as I won’t be there to inspect the watch myself until it arrives by courier. Any thoughts would be very gratefully received!

[rootbeer7]

For that saving jump on Easijet and make a day of it!

[997.2]

Make the trip. Rolex AD's pay like 60% of MSRP so there is some wiggle room. The first AD just didn't want to deal.

[DPE]

How about a quick flight to TAX FREE Jersey, no vat ?

[Gryfalcon]

Welcome to the forum! the nodate sub sounds like a winner

[Londoner999]

DPE - don't confuse me with even more options!

Flying over there would actually be a bit of a ball ache at the moment, due to work - at least for the next 8 weeks or so. I did think about emailing the first (London based) AD and telling her about what i was thinking of doing and (nicely) asking if she could move on the price.
But over all, it seems that there aren't any glaringly obvious issues with getting one sent over from an AD in another EU country?

[Northumbrian Tin]

Watch out for the vat - that would be an extra £860 if HMRC pick it up on entry.....

[Londoner999]

Originally Posted by Northumbrian Tin

Watch out for the vat - that would be an extra £860 if HMRC pick it up on entry.....

Oh really?? I thought that would only be the case if i bought it *outside* the EU, no?

[Northumbrian Tin]

Tons of info here https://www.gov.uk/government/public...r-eu-countries
HMRC don't make it easy ... Depends if the country you are buying from is classed as an eu fiscal partner - hope this helps

[Londoner999]

Originally Posted by Northumbrian Tin

Tons of info here https://www.gov.uk/government/public...r-eu-countries
HMRC don't make it easy ... Depends if the country you are buying from is classed as an eu fiscal partner - hope this helps

Thanks so much - v useful - no, according to this list it's a full member state of the EU, so presumably i don't need to pay VAT. So it remains quite a bargain, i think.

[Northumbrian Tin]

Originally Posted by Londoner999

Thanks so much - v useful - no, according to this list it's a full member state of the EU, so presumably i don't need to pay VAT. So it remains quite a bargain, i think.

Excellent - go for it

[AK797]

If it's from an AD then yes go for it, no VAT, just make sure it is sent fully insured by courier which usually costs £100-200. Many in the UK use Iconic Watches, a trusted reseller, who will do all this for you and pass the watch on to you at a good discount so you don't have all the hassle of overseas shipping and waiting and following up on any problems.

[Number3]

Prices in Italy seem to be the best at the moment. I just got a Sub-C no-date from Plus Watch in Rome for just over £3.5k. It is a used 2012 model but in pristine condition and I couldn't be happier with it. Have a look at Chrono24, make sure they're a trusted seller and are within the EU and you can get some amazing bargains. Enjoy!

[AK797]

Originally Posted by Number3

Prices in Italy seem to be the best at the moment. I just got a Sub-C no-date from Plus Watch in Rome for just over £3.5k. It is a used 2012 model but in pristine condition and I couldn't be happier with it. Have a look at Chrono24, make sure they're a trusted seller and are within the EU and you can get some amazing bargains. Enjoy!

There are no real trusted sellers on chrono24, you have to really research each seller there.

[Igerswis]

Originally Posted by Londoner999

I’d appreciate some advice as I’ve never owned a watch before and am a complete novice to all this. I’ve been into an AD in London, where I live, and tried various watched on and after much debate, decided to get a submariner (no date). The (very lovely) sales assistant quoted £5000, which is what I expected. They didn’t have one in stock, so I gave her my number and said that I’d pop back and would consider putting a deposit down for when they got one. However, I then got thinking about the Euro exchange rate and made contact with an AD in a nearby European country. Indeed, the price in Euros was lower than £5000 and after some negotiation over email they agreed to a discount. This, combined with the exchange rate, means that the watch (including insurance and shipping) is only £4300. That’s a saving of £700. To me, this is really good deal – almost too good though perhaps. Am I missing something? Why doesn’t everyone in the UK do this? As this is the first ever watch I’ve bought, I can’t believe I’ve stumbled across something that no one else has thought of. Part of me feels reassured because they are a very well known jewellers and watch seller and are Rolex AD, the other part of me is worried as I don’t want to get scammed. I’m also slightly wary as I won’t be there to inspect the watch myself until it arrives by courier. Any thoughts would be very gratefully received!

My brother says the same when pricing up watches in Dubai. There is savings to be had but I look at it this way:

UK: £5,000 RRP. You won't get a discount from Goldsmiths or David M Robinson etc, but what you may be able to negotiate with David M Robinson (as I did) was an extra years warranty and a free service when it's due. Other AD's may match or better this if you try.

EU: £4,300, plus collection or courier (est. ~£200).

So your saving immediately ~£500 by buying from EU, or you can potentially save in the future ~£450 (service cost) + an extra years warranty by buying from an AD here in the UK.

Looking at it from that perspective, the difference isn't that attractive any more, and you get to build up a rapport with your local AD for future purchases or support too.

[Evad3]

Hi,

I purchased my 114060 no-date Sub from a tangible shop (Watches of Distinction in Lymington) for £4300. It took a few weeks to come as they are a grey dealer and sourced it from Italy. Here's a few places you could look into (will be worth ringing to get their best price - their prices can be lower than stated on the website):

Watches of Distinction
Iconic Watches
Dream Watches
Churchil and Wolff

P.S. Attached a pic - it comes fully stickered and with everything it should as if you purchased from a UK AD (my instruction booklet was Italian however, but who reads instructions anyway :D )

[AK797]

Originally Posted by Evad3

Hi,

I purchased my 114060 no-date Sub from a tangible shop (Watches of Distinction in Lymington) for £4300. It took a few weeks to come as they are a grey dealer and sourced it from Italy. Here's a few places you could look into (will be worth ringing to get their best price - their prices can be lower than stated on the website):

Watches of Distinction
Iconic Watches
Dream Watches
Churchil and Wolff

P.S. Attached a pic - it comes fully stickered and with everything it should as if you purchased from a UK AD (my instruction booklet was Italian however, but who reads instructions anyway :D )

Nice. Have you dealt with Churchill Wolff, do they have an office in Covent Garden? Thanks.

[Evad3]

Originally Posted by AK797

Nice. Have you dealt with Churchill Wolff, do they have an office in Covent Garden? Thanks.

I havent dealt with them, I came across them the other day when I was checking grey dealer prices; they seem very competitive especially as many have increased their prices. I did notice an address on their website but wasn't sure if it was a shop address - would be interested to hear back if anyone decides to give them a call

[Londoner999]

Evad3 that is a beautiful watch, thanks for posting!
So it seems the general consensus is that i could get the watch from Europe but actually i might get a similar deal from an AD in the UK if i shop around a but, so it's bit swings and roundabouts.
As it's my first one ever, i think i'd prefer to get it from an AD rather than the grey market (unless I'm being utterly ludicrous?). Would people recommend buying out of London? I wonder if you're more likely to get a better deal and personal service than buying off an Oxford/Bond street AD?

[ARTISAN]

watch centre [new bond street ] £4600 ........you may get them down a little.
I have used them 3 times .

[toph]

No vat from EU to UK. It is already included but you'll pay a better price in Euros.
Euro prices will be much better currently.
If it's a reputable dealer I would not hesitate.
UK AD's can very rarely discount rolex at all. Not their fault, just the way it is.

On a slightly different note but same idea. There is a newish breitling store here in Sydney.
They cannot discount 1 cent.. Yet there are still a few Ad's selling breitlings that will give you 30% off or so for brand new. Feel sorry for them.
Anyway best of luck

P.S you could fly in and out of Amsterdam airport in a few hours too:) Schipol has decent prices and a decent rolex store.

[ratty]

Originally Posted by DPE

How about a quick flight to TAX FREE Jersey, no vat ?

As I understand things, from going to Jersey regularly, this is not correct.

Jersey is not an EU country, they have their own tax laws. So when returning to the mainland, goods over a certain price should be declared and duty paid if necessary.

There has been a new 'luxury goods' tax introduced on Jersey in the last few years which you have to pay on buying things like watches. You are given paperwork to hand in at the airport to prove that you have left the island and the tax is returned to you afterwards. Some people are nervous that when you claim the tax back when leaving, you are recording your details and the fact that tax is due somewhere and the 'tax man' may come looking at some point.

I would also say that when you buy a Rolex on Jersey, the only AD Hetich usually does not offer any discounts to visitors. They think that the fact that they have to charge less because of the lower tax should be enough, even on Gold and Platinum watches. If you live on Jersey I have no doubt that there are similar percentage discounts to those on the mainland available. IF this is the case, watches would be mainland prices less about 18% due to lower tax and then less about another 15 to 17% discount. A platinum Daytona is about £50100 list price on the mainland but about £42500 ish discounted. I suspect that a Jersey resident could get one for about £36000 with the lower tax and a 15% discount. (This is also about the price usually asked for second hand watches at dealers in London.) I think this is wrong on principle so do not buy from them now.

Is there anyone on the forum who lives on the Chanel Islands or knows more about the situation ?

[Londoner999]

What's the actual difference from getting from a AD over a grey market dealer, apart from the price? Do you get a certificate with your name on or anything?!
I've got it in my head from somewhere that if you don't buy from a AD it might be fake/have fake parts in it. is that a legitimate concern?

[toph]

Originally Posted by Londoner999

What's the actual difference from getting from a AD over a grey market dealer, apart from the price? Do you get a certificate with your name on or anything?!
I've got it in my head from somewhere that if you don't buy from a AD it might be fake/have fake parts in it. is that a legitimate concern?

The warranty, if purchased from a grey dealer, is usually void. They will offer their own warranty though.
It could be fake, made up but with a modern rolex from a reputable grey dealer .., I highly doubt it.
Due diligence is always best though.

[AK797]

Originally Posted by Londoner999

What's the actual difference from getting from a AD over a grey market dealer, apart from the price? Do you get a certificate with your name on or anything?!
I've got it in my head from somewhere that if you don't buy from a AD it might be fake/have fake parts in it. is that a legitimate concern?

The dealers mentioned on this thread are not grey dealers, ie all VAT tax has been paid, they are resellers who have bought from EU ADs at discounts and are passing that on to their UK customer, exactly the same unworn watches as a UK AD with all papers, and 2 year Rolex warranty. Half this forum buys their watches from the US trusted reseller equivalents who sell here. If a watch turned out to be fake you would get a full refund, they certainly don't want the negative publicity you could easily create online.

[Londoner999]

Originally Posted by AK797

The dealers mentioned on this thread are not grey dealers, ie all VAT tax has been paid, they are resellers who have bought from EU ADs at discounts and are passing that on to their UK customer, exactly the same unworn watches as a UK AD with all papers, and 2 year Rolex warranty. Half this forum buys their watches from the US trusted seller equivalents who sell here.

That's so helpful thanks - i had assumed that every shop/company selling a Rolex who wasn't an AD was considered a grey dealer.

[Evad3]

Originally Posted by AK797

The dealers mentioned on this thread are not grey dealers, ie all VAT tax has been paid, they are resellers who have bought from EU ADs at discounts and are passing that on to their UK customer, exactly the same unworn watches as a UK AD with all papers, and 2 year Rolex warranty. Half this forum buys their watches from the US trusted reseller equivalents who sell here. If a watch turned out to be fake you would get a full refund, they certainly don't want the negative publicity you could easily create online.

I also thought of Grey dealers as watches being sold to customers outside of Rolex's immediate distribution channels. I've never had clarification though, so I have learnt something new

[landroverking]

Welcome and congrats. Quick flight. Long weekend fun sounds good.

[sloter]

Or try different AD and ask them what discount they will give you, being in London there must be quite a few.

[116680]

I have imported from European sellers several times and got a great saving. There is no additional UK VAT where full EU member and VAT has been paid in that member state. Check that it has before ordering. This route hasn't been as popular previously because the GBP/EUR rate hasn't been as competitive as it is now. At the moment though, a 1.35 rate makes this kind of deal a no-brainer. Done right you are picking up the watch for the same price the UK re-sellers like Iconic are able to source them for, but cutting out the middle-man. Just be confident with the seller as there are some sharks on Chrono24, so you may still consider paying that premium worth it for peace of mind. I find knowing a little of the local lingo (Italian, French, Spanish) is a massive help in breaking down cultural barriers that otherwise cause doubt and concern.