Double Red Sea-Dweller Submariner 2000

[Barracuda]

I'm a newbie to Rolex & timepieces in general, so if I use the wrong nomenclature please forgive me. I recently had a Double Red Sea-Dweller Submariner 2000 literally fall into my lap. I've posted to a couple of forums, added pics of the watch and been handed some very useful information. I just found out about this forum from another forum, and from the traffic this site generates, I thought I'd at least try to gain more insight from your users.

I've been told I have a historical timepiece, an extremely rare timepiece and a timepiece that's sought after by many. I've been told not to touch it, not to have it refurbished by Rolex, don't sell it, sell it, insure it, don't insure it, stick it in a safe deposit box and forget about it etc.

The watch is in pretty bad shape. It was owned by a diver and water apparently found its way into the movement. According to someone local that I spoke with, everything can be fixed, but can it and should it be?. The case is fine, the wristband is broken, the end pieces are missing, but the links and clasp are intact. It's all original and it is in fact an original Rolex and not a fake. I only have the watch, no paperwork, no box...just the watch and band.

I have yet had anyone tell me EXACTLY what I have here. I'll post some pics of the piece here in a few minutes, but what I'm really looking for is information. I get confused with the whole MkI,MKII,MKIII,MKIV and so on and so forth.

Details of the watch.

1. DRSD 2000
a.Questioned: (MKII,at least that's what some are saying, due to chocolate patina on face I'm assuming)

Serial # 2661xxx
Patented
Gas Valve













Sorry about the quality of pics, I'm a lousy photographer. I've had people ask to have the crystal removed and a pic of the dial without it in place, but should I and who do I go to, to have it done? My Rolex dealer deals exclusively with newer models, I had to repeat to them what I had, the guy had no clue. I'm afraid of having ANYTHING removed, I'm certainly not going to do it with a pair of vice-grips or whatever.

If it's to be sold, is this the time to do it? Should I spend whatever it takes to refurbish it...by Rolex or someone else? I've been told if I send it into Rolex, they'll replace the dial and that's a big no-no.

What the heck would you do? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated, the history of this particular model would also be greatly appreciated. My eyes are beginning to cross reading all this stuff on the Internet. I'd just really like someone to tell me in layman's terms what I have here.

I collect old muscle cars, not watches. Thanks in advance for any help you might have to offer.

Cuda

[SPACE-DWELLER]

Welcome to TRF!

Whoa! Great looking DRSD!

You asked for more information about the "Mark" dials?

Please visit www.doubleredseadweller.com

There you can find a lot of info about the DRSD and their dials.

And here's another article: Cult Status: The Rolex "Double Red" Sea-Dweller.

If you have it serviced, PLEASE do NOT have the watchmakers touch the dials and hands. It's imperative for the value of the watch that the dial and hands are kept untouched and original!!

Rolex Service Centre might not want to service this watch due to its age and movement (1500 series) but an independent RSC like the one in San Francisco would be happy to help you, I am sure. Please request that the watch be only LIGHTLY restored! NO overbuffing or any other drastic measures!

[DAN.K]

Hi,,and welcome aboard!!!
What you have there is like a barn find original Z-28 Camaro in bad shape...if you do decide to restore it ...you`d better stick with original or NOS parts...any repro will cause decrease of value...its a nice piece you have there,gather as much info as you can before taking action.
Hope my analogy is good!!!
I also collect Muscle cars ,and ,recently,watches...

[mike]

Yes, have it serviced. Yes, pay what it costs.

No, don't it send it to Rolex--they won't touch it anyway in the states.

If it were me, I would send it here,

http://www.watchmakers.com/index.html

Let Bob work his magic then sit back and pat yourself on the back.

[etp095]

Originally Posted by DAN.K

Hi,,and welcome aboard!!!
What you have there is like a barn find original Z-28 Camaro in bad shape...if you do decide to restore it ...you`d better stick with original or NOS parts...any repro will cause decrease of value...its a nice piece you have there,gather as much info as you can before taking action.
Hope my analogy is good!!!
I also collect Muscle cars ,and ,recently,watches...

it's more like a 69 Z28 with a factory cross ram intake and rear factory discs.the only thing with nos parts is that they are very expensive (hands,dial).do you really want to keep it and wear it?there is another independent rsc in chicago(30 n, michigan ave),sounds like your from chi town.bob ridley would be the guy to restore your vintage rolex.is the back of it engraved,looks like it?

[Barracuda]

NOTE: I posted a response to this thread about an hour ago, but maybe I made a mistake in doing so, it said I'd have to wait for the moderators approval before posting. Sorry guys, apparently I need to read the FAQ or something prior to posting. Moderator, if you'd please delete the last comment I made as it now would become a double post.

Thanks

Thanks guys, I really appreciate it.

If you have it serviced, PLEASE do NOT have the watchmakers touch the dials and hands. It's imperative for the value of the watch that the dial and hands are kept untouched and original!!

Thanks Sea-Dweller, I've been told that A LOT! I'll certainly take that advice no matter what happens.

I've also been to those sites you listed, the BJsonline gentleman ID'd the watch as a MKII and a rare piece. That's also the site where a lot of people waved checks in front of my monitor. I appreciate that of course, if I was determined to sell, but at this point, I'm not sure what I'm going to do.

But thanks again SD!!!!

Hi,,and welcome aboard!!!
What you have there is like a barn find original Z-28 Camaro in bad shape...if you do decide to restore it ...you`d better stick with original or NOS parts...any repro will cause decrease of value...its a nice piece you have there,gather as much info as you can before taking action.
Hope my analogy is good!!!
I also collect Muscle cars ,and ,recently,watches...

Thank you Dan!

I'm not sure what NOS parts are and understand that repro parts are another big no-no, in cars and watches. Trust me and I'm sure you know this from experience, collecting cars can drive you nuts, but it takes about 2 cars to get to that point. With watches, it took me all of 5 minutes to start pulling my hair out.

Thanks again Dan

Mike,

Does using someone not associated with Rolex to service the watch devaluate it in any way? I certainly like the idea of someone who would follow my directions when servicing the watch, ie, leaving the face alone.

Thanks Mike

[Barracuda]

sounds like your from chi town.bob ridley would be the guy to restore your vintage rolex.is the back of it engraved,looks like it?

Etp095:

Actually, closer to Motor City. This is NOT something I'm ever going to wear and yes it is engraved, but not by Rolex. I'd prefer to keep the "personality" intact, the case is fine, the face has patches of brown if you can make that out by the pics, the crystal is just so scratched, it's hard to see through it. If I was to replace the crystal, I'd prefer to have an OEM crystal replacing that of the original, yet keep that scratched up monster somewhere safe like in an above ground crypt...it deserves a decent burial of sorts. It just adds character.

Thanks for the reply etp!!!!

[etp095]

Originally Posted by Barracuda

Etp095:

Actually, closer to Motor City. This is NOT something I'm ever going to wear and yes it is engraved, but not by Rolex. I'd prefer to keep the "personality" intact, the case is fine, the face has patches of brown if you can make that out by the pics, the crystal is just so scratched, it's hard to see through it. If I was to replace the crystal, I'd prefer to have an OEM crystal replacing that of the original, yet keep that scratched up monster somewhere safe like in an above ground crypt...it deserves a decent burial of sorts. It just adds character.

Thanks for the reply etp!!!!

ok your from the motor city,that doesn't make you a bad guy(j/k).a new oem crystal is readily available,not a big deal.it won't hurt the value of the watch if you replace.you could also do a search here(trf) about removing scratches to the crystal,easily done.you'd be surprised how easy it is to remove the scratches yourself.there's a few threads about doing it yourself.go redwings!

[marke]

i have come across a few double red sea dwellers, and opinions vary what to do with them, first of all my advice is to get the watch insured. secondly go into your authorised dealer and get him to e.mail rolex in geneva who may be able to tell you some more history about the watch.

the link BO ( sppace dweller) gave you is a good one, and will answer you questions, ther is also a good book about rolexes by somebody called rita shenton that will answer even more questions.

the last DRSD i saw was a mark 1 patent ending unit which had never been serviced..

PM me if you want to know more

rgds
Mark

[karmatp]

Can you tell us a little more on how you acquired this watch, I'm very curious.

[mike]

Originally Posted by Barracuda

NOTE: [I]

Mike,

Does using someone not associated with Rolex to service the watch devaluate it in any way? I certainly like the idea of someone who would follow my directions when servicing the watch, ie, leaving the face alone.

Thanks Mike

That's an excellent point. In an ideal world, I think we would all want the proverance that comes with a complete service by RSC. The associated paperwork is a great thing to have should you want to sell the watch.

Having said that, and given the fact that RUSA maintains some rather draconian policies as it applies to servicing certain pieces, in order to maintain the originality and value of such an historical piece we, at times, have to look elsewhere.

The community seems to understand that there are watchmakers and there are watchmakers. A select few have, because of their excellent work and keen understanding of the historical significance of special pieces have earned the respect of the vintage community.

A few, like Bob, understand what references like this are and preform amazing work while maintaining the history and value of the piece. This is not lost on the collector.

[jac67]

Hello and welcome.

Congrats, you have a nice DRSD there. Still with the original crown tube.

Yes, it's a mk.II as advised. I would get it serviced by someone who knows and specialises in these types of watches.

Most importantly, the movement should be full overhaulled to maintain value. You have been given the best advice regarding the dial, hands and bezel insert (ie. leave them alone).

Yes, this watch will continue to value, but if it doesn't sing to you, crystalise the profit and use the funds for something you like.

Good luck in your decision, and thank you for posting.


John.

[Barracuda]

Can you tell us a little more on how you acquired this watch, I'm very curious.

Sure. While knee-deep in the basement, looking for items to sell at a charity event, I was just sifting through your common basement detritus when I moved an item off a shelf above my head. Accompanied by years worth of dust and an old dial telephone, an envelope literally fell into my lap. Being the curious turd I am, I opened the envelope and there, staring me in the face was this watch, case and band wrapped tightly in an old eyeglass rag. As I stated before, I wasn't; until recently, versed in anything Rolex. I have a lot of friends who own Rolex's; Daytonas and such, but I never gave them a second thought. To be honest, I'm more of a Timex guy, wearing something like this to work would be foolish. I'm in law enforcement so whatever I'm wearing would be subject to some extreme conditions, dirt, gore, asphalt and not to mention suspicion. It's not common for any of us in this profession to wear something as valuable as a Rolex, not to say it doesn't happen, it's just not common.

So, once I identified the watch, first thinking it might be a fake, I went upstairs and showed it to the wife. It was at that time, family history reared its head and things started to make sense. A relation no longer with us had at one time been a diver. Unfortunately, as history some time does, much of what happened during this persons life is lost forever, taken from us with very little record and distorted by aged relations. We have and still are gathering SOME information from other sources within the family. Apparently, the original owner of the watch had been a commercial diver, working jobs in the Lake Michigan region and apparently worked on some jobs associated with the Mackinaw Bridge construction in Northern Michigan. We're still gathering information and are attempting to talk with the Mackinaw Historical Society, Mackinaw Bridge Authority and other entities that might have something to offer. It's an ongoing process.

Once we got our ducks in a row, we took the watch to an established watchmaker-repair shop not far from where we live. The wife had taken some rather expensive timepieces for repair in the past to this gentleman. The guy took the watch, looked at it, removed the back and said, "Nice watch, it would take me a lot of time to fix it", "I'll give you $50.00 bucks for it."....we left....with the watch.

Months went by, the watch tucked securely in the wifes purse, forgotten. We laugh today thinking of how many times she left her purse unattended in the shopping cart, turning her back on it to reach for a carton of milk at the store. We live in a very nice and safe part of the country, but still....dummies. A stupid thing to do on any day, but now knowing how valuable this piece is...doubly stoopid and a windowlicker move.

So, if I haven't bored you enough, just within the last week or so, curiosity got the best of me during another fund raiser and I sat behind the computer looking for information. I got an education on Rolex, learned that this might be a very valuable piece, told it was a historical timepiece etc. It's been fascinating. We're in the process of investigating avenues to have this watch serviced; by VERY experienced hands and by someone who doesn't have to ask twice "What did you call it? A DRSD 2000?"

So there ya have it. A condensed or Readers Digest version of how Mr DRSD performed its amazing rebirth. I'm going to give Watchmakers and Bob a call soon to discuss what can be done, I'd like to at least get the movement working, replace the crystal or fix the original, repair the band and bring this thing back to life. Whether we keep it or not, or allow someone else to give it the respect it deserves, is still up in the air. We have a non-profit organization and of course, funds are always elusive, but it's not my call, its the wifes. I just want to bring it back from the dead.

The community seems to understand that there are watchmakers and there are watchmakers. A select few have, because of their excellent work and keen understanding of the historical significance of special pieces have earned the respect of the vintage community.

Thank you Mike for answering my question, it appears that Watchmakers.com in very respected within the timepiece community.

Yes, this watch will continue to value, but if it doesn't sing to you, crystalise the profit and use the funds for something you like.

Thanks jac67.

Another question, does this market for vintage Rolex's have its ups and downs? I was told if we wished to sell, now is the time. Was that just a line or do you witness a fluctuation in interest when it comes to these kind of vintage watches?

Thanks guys for the help, its been awesome.

Cuda

[jac67]

Originally Posted by Barracuda

Thanks jac67.

Another question, does this market for vintage Rolex's have its ups and downs? I was told if we wished to sell, now is the time. Was that just a line or do you witness a fluctuation in interest when it comes to these kind of vintage watches?

Thanks guys for the help, its been awesome.

Cuda

Well Cuda, sports watch, especially Rolex are really HOT now! There seems not to be too much slowing down for these "Top Shelf" watches.

Even with the current world economic "crisis", these types of watches don't really fluctuate too much. Maybe the $5,000-$10,000 watches will feel the pinch!

Red Subs, DRSD, PN Daytona, MilSubs, Big crown Subs, 6062's and the like are usually purchased by collectors who have either deep pockets OR are very passionate (eg me), and will sacrifice in order to get that grail piece into thier collection.

Yes, you will make a great profit on the watch, considering you never expected to find such a gem, and which cost you nothing, BUT if you hold on to it, it will surely increase in value. The only thing is that the "rate" of which the value will increase may taper off, but always move in an upward direction.

I am really happy for you.

Keep us posted.


John.

[Beef]

Congrats on an amazing find. You have done totally the right thing coming here. The above advice is complete and accurate. If you follow it, you will have a world class vintage piece worth somewhere in the mid-$20K range. At that point, you can sell it (I wouldn't), lock it up for posterity (maybe), or wear it occasionally ( as I do mine, upper left in avatar.) Anyway you slice it, it's win-win. Keep us posted on your progress.

[thecoinopcollector]

Just last week while at the dry cleaners I met a Pa State Trooper that wears a 20 year old Sea Dweller every day. Rolex's are tool watches made to be worn in extreme conditions. I am told Submariners and GMT's were favorites of GI's in Viet Nam. That said I wouldn't wear a Mark II DRSD daily either. Get it restored by Bob Ridley. Don't touch the dial or hands. I repeat, DON'T TOUCH the DIAL or Hands. Then if you want a sweet daily wearer, sell it for a boat load of money and buy a new Sub or SD for daily wear and put the rest of the money in your non profit.

Marc

[Barracuda]

Jac67, Beef and Coin:

Thanks for the help gentleman, you've enlightened me and I certainly appreciate it. We're pretty excited and are looking forward to getting this thing up and running again. I spent a good deal of time in the basement last night looking for anything remotely associated with the watch and nothing. I was hoping to find a box or paperwork but my efforts went unrewarded. I did find some paperwork identifying the family member as a big-time scuba instructor covering all aspects of diving; from rescue, deep water and research diving. but that's all.

Damn the luck huh?

I've placed a call into Mr. Ridley, although no one answered. I might have called a little too late and of course it's a holiday weekend here in the states. We'll try again next week.

Thanks again for the help.

Cuda

[karmatp]

Thanks for giving us the lowdown on how you came across your new prized possession, very cool story.

[moby33]

Originally Posted by Barracuda

The guy took the watch, looked at it, removed the back and said, "Nice watch, it would take me a lot of time to fix it", "I'll give you $50.00 bucks for it."....we left....with the watch.


Cuda

Classic!!! Got to love guys that are either 1) Completely out to lunch, or 2) Total Con Men that try and rip anybody off anytime...

Glad to hear you guys got out of there fast. Please keep us posted on the evolution of your saga...I love reading about stories like this and the eventual outcome.

Cheers.

[jac67]

Originally Posted by Barracuda

I did find some paperwork identifying the family member as a big-time scuba instructor covering all aspects of diving; from rescue, deep water and research diving. but that's all.

Damn the luck huh?

Actually Cuda, having the above will, believe it or not add some value to the watch.

Collectors are a really funny bunch, they're interested in both the genuinality of the watch, but also interested in the watches life. You only have to look at Comex, MilSubs and other military watches to see what I mean.

You know what would be really cool, if you can find some pictures of the diver actually wearing that watch.

Keep the collection together.


John.

[Trurolexer]

WELCOME TO TRF, Pal!!! Hope you enjoy your stay here!!!
What A BEAUTIFUL DRSD!!! Big Congrats!!!

[Barracuda]

An Update On The Watch

As things usually go around here, we forgot about the watch again....but today we're finally sending it off to Mr. Bob Ridley in Arlington. We spoke to him on the phone a little while ago and he seems to be as excited about the watch as we are, that's a good thing. You can hear the passion this man has for his work, as rare as the watch these days I think.

It'll be an exciting month or so in this household...

woo hoo....

[DadsWatch72]

The serial number points to a Mark II as does the "Rolex Patent" on the case back. I will be very interested in what Mr. Ridley says about the dial (red lettering specifically). From the DRDS website, they tell us that the Mark I dials were painted over with red paint per Rolex. From the picture it looks like the red lettering is peeling red paint and exposing white text. Could this be a Mark I dial in a Mark II case??? Maybe Rolex was using up their stock of the older Mark I dials when they built this watch?

[DadsWatch72]

It looks like a Mark II from what I can see when I compare with a reference dial. The "U" letter in "SUBMARINER" sits very close to the "B" letter. Maybe it just appears white from a reflection. Once Bob gets a nice superdome on there we will be able to see clearly.

[1000ftSub]

Very nice watch, but it looks like its seen better days. nice choice.

[Barracuda]

Originally Posted by DW72

It looks like a Mark II from what I can see when I compare with a reference dial.

Yeah, its been identified as a Mkll awhile ago...the red lettering is showing white due to my inability to take a decent shot...cuz I suck as a photog.

Originally Posted by 1000ftSub

Very nice watch, but it looks like its seen better days. nice choice.

It has seen better days, underwater attached to the wrist of a salvage diver...adds character no? Plus, it shows what happens when someone purchases a watch and actually uses it as advertised , not just gracing the wrist of a suburbanista driving a leased Prius.

We're looking forward to seeing what Mr Ridley can do for it, it deserves to surface again...like a Phoenix...cept without the fire, fire would be bad.

[DadsWatch72]

I've seen you post this watch on another forum under the name "Royal Oak". It's taken you a while to decide where to have the work done. I think you made a wise choice to have Bob take a crack at this watch. One thing I will say about this watch........the bezel looks nice and "crisp" for a work watch. Very little wear, if any from what I can tell from the photo. Here are "crops" from my bezel, yours, and a Mark II from the DRSD website (in that order). You can see the wear on the one from the DRSD website clearly. Its smooth and worn like an old nickel thats been around the block a few times.

http://doubleredseadweller.com/dr_dials.htm

Mine.................................Yours........ ......................DRSD Reference bezel

[Joey_V]

Restore it but dont sell it unless you need the money. It will only go up in value.

[Alcan]

Originally Posted by Barracuda

An Update On The Watch

.......sending it off to Mr. Bob Ridley..........

.......You can hear the passion this man has for his work, as rare as the watch these days I think...........

You made the right choice in sending the watch to Bob. As Mike mentioned earlier, he is well known and respected by the vintage collector community. Several members here have used his services, all with outstanding results.

Not to hijack your thread, but here is a photo essay on a restoration of an irreplaceable vintage he did for me last year. It'll give you an idea of the quality of his work and as you put it, his passion:

http://rolexforums.com/showthread.ph...ght=Bob+Ridley


Good luck with the DRSD.

[Changmaisausage]

Originally Posted by 1000ftSub

Very nice watch, but it looks like its seen better days. nice choice.

Did you read all of the post?