Che Guevarra

[TheDude]

Originally Posted by infoe

Lol I can see. This thread being closed very soon...I have not read any of the posts of this thread because I'm cuban american and I don't even want to know what some people that have no idea of che guevaras true nature have mentioned about him. how he has romantically been idolized in this country. And although I feel very happy "not proud" to be an american" to be an american and I feel g. Washington, adams, franklin, jefferson were revolutionist, I can see how their acts were of the terrorist nature, if their revolution would have failed they would be nothing more but spit on names in the books of history. Look at guy fawkes "v for vendetta" failed at his attempt to overthrow parliament and is now just a romanticized terrorist, had he succeeded he would have been the father "hero" of modern day england....

That's kind of funny, I didn't want to bring it up because I know non-Americans go to Cuba quite a bit and already know how things are there...

I'm an American and have been to Cuba legally many times for work. I was blown away by how the people of -Cuba- idolize him. It's epic there... the US attitudes are basically limited to something "cool" to put on a T-shirt. Over there, he's practically their patron saint.

I had the good fortune of being there once during a day when Castro closed down everything and required the people to march in protest of the international community's intentions to impose sanctions for one of his many mood swings that happened to be especially cruel. Anyway, I couldn't begin to count the big banner-sized Che signs being waved.

Oh, and good 'ol Castro. Where did he set up shop immediately after taking control of Cuba? The newest swankiest hotel on the Island... ;)

[TheDude]

Originally Posted by watchlady

As long as it is still open... I didn't say they were terrorists, I said they might have been considered terrorists of their time, things the Boston Tea Party, dumping shiploads full of tea into the harbor as a taxation protest would be considered terrorist activities in todays climate.

Colonist then, terrorist now it all depends on your point of view. In many ways it is a buzz world to insight fear. The British didn't see the colonists in a positive light is my point.

I get your point and understand the distinction. I'd agree that the terrorist label can be misapplied and probably has been during the course of history. However, I think there are plenty of "real" terrorists out there who we could all universally agree are doing things we can't condone as a civilized international community.


I'm simply pointing out that the only logical interpretation to a statement like the one you made is that somehow we should view the terrorists and their actions through a new lens (the American Revolutionaries)... and that somehow the actions of today's terrorists might be viewed in a different light.

I'm willing to admit that the history of today's events hasn't been written yet and that we're incapable of predicting what future generations will think. However, I shudder to think of a future world that could look back on the actions of our current enemies and romanticize or glorify these actions in the way our founding fathers' actions are.

[Gurmot]

OK, I didn't want to do this but you've forced my hand.

I'm invoking Barney on this thread so that's the end of it. Now you all have to give each other a big hug and make up.

I hope you've learned your lesson. Don't make me reach for the Teletubbies!!!

[Beef]

Ladies and Gentlemen,
This is a watch forum, not a political blog. Words that cannot be taken back have been spoken. We all have the right to have strong opinions and voice them. As a former U.S. Marine and U.S. Army Special Forces soldier and veteran of 2 wars against communism, I also have them. But I would not voice them here, this is not the platform for that. This has always been a friendly forum devoted to open and polite discussion of inanimate time pieces, with which we are all obcessed. I think that some damage to the harmony of this forum has been done, based on the above exchanges. Not all of the damage is apparent, since most members of this forum and the countless lurkers have not weighed in. But most have read it. Please, everyone drop the vitriol and let's get back to what we do best here. Besides, Barney's been invoked!
Semper Fi, Rick

[BigHat]

I realize I'm unlikely to be thought of as a moderating influence in "testy threads," but I think we need to calm down.

Any of you experience the "fire fight" in WatchTime over Glenn Beck? Beck is a watch nut, much like us. I don't watch him on TV, but quickly learned what a polarizing figure he is among the news junkies. People with different political views were highly angered that WT would feature him. The way I figured it, screw the politics, he has a great collection and I bet he's a fun guy to talk watches with.

This Che pic, led to a similar series of letters back and forth. Maybe it's enough to say that whatever problems you have with him, at least he liked Rolexes.

[Trurolexer]

Originally Posted by Gurmot

OK, I didn't want to do this but you've forced my hand.

I'm invoking Barney on this thread so that's the end of it. Now you all have to give each other a big hug and make up.

I hope you've learned your lesson. Don't make me reach for the Teletubbies!!!

I Love You, You Love Me, We're Happy FAMILY...

[leopardprey]

Agree, loved the Glen Beck article in WT. Matter of fact his latest book is one of the best books I have read in a long time.

Now, if Glen Beck's article did upset readers, I hate to see what the effect will be on the Leopardprey article in the September issue! (just like some of my post in the past on this forum upset many more emasculated forum members! LOL LOL)

BTW, Che's watch is actually in the possession of a retired US Army Special Forces member who was an "advisor" on the final raid of Che.

And though of course disagreed with Che's politics, is a good testament to the apeal and ruggedness of a Rolex GMT that he wore one on his wrist. Hec, I wear a Panerai now as my daily wear watch, and that was originally developed for and worn by a bunch of pro-Nazi Italian fascist frogmen!

[leopardprey]

My favorite Che T Shirt.

[Beef]

Originally Posted by leopardprey

My favorite Che T Shirt.

My 14 year old has one from the Savage Nation.

[fear]

Originally Posted by Beef

My 14 year old has one from the Savage Nation.

Whoo Hoo! Limbaugh, Hugh Hewitt, Beck, Savage, Hannity, Preager, Medved, Dennis Miller, Laura Imgraham, Bill Bennett. Great shows!

[redshirt1957]

Originally Posted by Gurmot

OK, I didn't want to do this but you've forced my hand.

I'm invoking Barney on this thread so that's the end of it. Now you all have to give each other a big hug and make up.

I hope you've learned your lesson. Don't make me reach for the Teletubbies!!!

Yuck! Please, don't make us have to hear about Simon playing with his Teletubby. Please stop the madness or we will be scarred for life.

[stevemulholland3]

Originally Posted by TempoKing

Dr. Ernesto Rafael Guevara De la Serna
14 June 1928 - 9 October 1967

Maybe some would think that he was politically misquided, but to me because I was born in the cradle of democracy (Greece) and because I live in the center of democracy (USA) I accept his views as valid for him, I disagree with them, but that does no make "Che" any less patriotic than I am.
Any man that read Nehru, Camus, Sartre & Aristotle along with examining Bertrand Russell on love and patriotism, Jack London on society and Nietzsche on the idea of death as well as having a tremendous passion for poetry by Neruda, Keats, Lorca and Whitman, clearly is a man of quality.
Was he wrong to try and overthrow dictator Fulgencio Batista..? You tell me !

He had an excellent taste in Cigars and Swiss watches !
...like me so to speak...lol

isnt wikipedia great..

[f16570]

Originally Posted by astcell

Actually this was is not against a country but an ideology. No one thought about that and wrote rules on how to engage such a battle. We're learning by trial and error.

More like learning by trial & TERROR

[CoopJr]

Originally Posted by Beef

Ladies and Gentlemen,
This is a watch forum, not a political blog. Words that cannot be taken back have been spoken. We all have the right to have strong opinions and voice them. As a former U.S. Marine and U.S. Army Special Forces soldier and veteran of 2 wars against communism, I also have them. But I would not voice them here, this is not the platform for that. This has always been a friendly forum devoted to open and polite discussion of inanimate time pieces, with which we are all obcessed. I think that some damage to the harmony of this forum has been done, based on the above exchanges. Not all of the damage is apparent, since most members of this forum and the countless lurkers have not weighed in. But most have read it. Please, everyone drop the vitriol and let's get back to what we do best here. Besides, Barney's been invoked!
Semper Fi, Rick

Well said Beefster!

[dfndr90]

It is amazing, I have yet to see one scholarly comment in this thread. I thought a group of individuals who could muster the resources to purchase a Rolex would be educated enough to add to this discourse.

If anyone would like to debate Huntington's theory of revolution, Liddell Hart's theory of strategy, Mao's concept of the single spark or Clausewitz's Paradoxical Trinity then feel free to add to this thread. If you are scratching you head wondering who those people are, go back to reading threads about how hard it is to find a Daytona.

I am not trying to be elitist, but you must have some scholarly background to enter this debate, otherwise your opinions are just noise.

Matt...

[toph]

Originally Posted by dfndr90

It is amazing, I have yet to see one scholarly comment in this thread. I thought a group of individuals who could muster the resources to purchase a Rolex would be educated enough to add to this discourse.

If anyone would like to debate Huntington's theory of revolution, Liddell Hart's theory of strategy, Mao's concept of the single spark or Clausewitz's Paradoxical Trinity then feel free to add to this thread. If you are scratching you head wondering who those people are, go back to reading threads about how hard it is to find a Daytona.

I am not trying to be elitist, but you must have some scholarly background to enter this debate, otherwise your opinions are just noise.

Matt...

how about the fact that Fidel completely fell out because of political differences with Che and ended up giving him many minor posts- some abroad.

[JJ Irani]

Originally Posted by redshirt1957

I joined TRF to talk about Rolexs and have some fun.

And when I joined TRF, little did I know that my face would be photo-shopped all over the internet!!

[dfndr90]

Originally Posted by toph

how about the fact that Fidel completely fell out because of political differences with Che and ended up giving him many minor posts- some abroad.

You will hear no disagreements from me on that end. That's why Che ended up in Bolivia.

[gtbike72]

Originally Posted by JJ Irani

And when I joined TRF, little did I know that my face would be photo-shopped all over the internet!!

[boa2]

Originally Posted by JJ Irani

And when I joined TRF, little did I know that my face would be photo-shopped all over the internet!!

Che sera sera...

[toph]

Originally Posted by JJ Irani

And when I joined TRF, little did I know that my face would be photo-shopped all over the internet!!

you made me laugh there- still am in fact!

[fear]

I am not trying to be elitist, but you must have some scholarly background to enter this debate, otherwise your opinions are just noise.

Matt...[/QUOTE]


You just offended a bunch of members Matt. Dude, by hinting that some of us are cavemen says that you are an elitist.

You assuming our stupidity by quoting names show that you are a typical elitist. Why don't enlighten members as to what the opinion of these elites regarding "revolution."

We can discuss things in a reasonable way without you coming in with your drive-by attacks. I used to work at a University and what you're doing is typical of ivory tower elites. You shut down other people's opinions by showing how "smart" you are.

Welcome to TRF.

[CoopJr]

Originally Posted by dfndr90

It is amazing, I have yet to see one scholarly comment in this thread. I thought a group of individuals who could muster the resources to purchase a Rolex would be educated enough to add to this discourse.

If anyone would like to debate Huntington's theory of revolution, Liddell Hart's theory of strategy, Mao's concept of the single spark or Clausewitz's Paradoxical Trinity then feel free to add to this thread. If you are scratching you head wondering who those people are, go back to reading threads about how hard it is to find a Daytona.

I am not trying to be elitist, but you must have some scholarly background to enter this debate, otherwise your opinions are just noise.

Matt...

Dude..who the F do you think you are? There are alot of fine people on this forum and being lectured by some pompous newbie is not appreciated. If you want to show off what you know Mr. Elitist, go find the Mensa forum!!

[stevemulholland3]

Originally Posted by dfndr90

It is amazing, I have yet to see one scholarly comment in this thread. I thought a group of individuals who could muster the resources to purchase a Rolex would be educated enough to add to this discourse.

If anyone would like to debate Huntington's theory of revolution, Liddell Hart's theory of strategy, Mao's concept of the single spark or Clausewitz's Paradoxical Trinity then feel free to add to this thread. If you are scratching you head wondering who those people are, go back to reading threads about how hard it is to find a Daytona.

I am not trying to be elitist, but you must have some scholarly background to enter this debate, otherwise your opinions are just noise.

Matt...

I see plenty of pretentious jerks like this,they run a search on revolutionary ideology,throw out a few of the main-stream schoolroom monologue's,and suddenly they are a passionate anti-establishment free thinker.when in reality anyone who could rationalize the ability of someone being able to buy a rolex could somehow tie in to their ability or drive to debate pseudo-philosophical mumbo jumbo is very naive and shallow.
welcome to the forum

[JJ Irani]

Originally Posted by dfndr90

It is amazing, I have yet to see one scholarly comment in this thread. I thought a group of individuals who could muster the resources to purchase a Rolex would be educated enough to add to this discourse.

If anyone would like to debate Huntington's theory of revolution, Liddell Hart's theory of strategy, Mao's concept of the single spark or Clausewitz's Paradoxical Trinity then feel free to add to this thread. If you are scratching you head wondering who those people are, go back to reading threads about how hard it is to find a Daytona.

I am not trying to be elitist, but you must have some scholarly background to enter this debate, otherwise your opinions are just noise.

Matt...

Oh boy....can't hardly wait to see James' reaction to this one!!! It's going to be worth every cent!!

[Welshwatchman]

Originally Posted by dfndr90

I am not trying to be elitist

Matt...

Sure you're not.

With comments like that you are really going to attract a multitude of admirers.

Thread closed.