16610lv

[Gina Marie]

would the Kermit be considered vintage at this point?

Why all the fuss over Mark 1 vs. all others?

What is the flat 4?

Is this watch worth seeking? Novelty?

I admit when i saw at first, i thought....ugh.....i did not like the green bezel...but it has grown on me.

[05carbondrz]

I would not consider it Vintage,That's just my opinion.The flat "4" is in regards to the Number 4 in 40 on the Bezel Insert,The Top is flat on the early Ones.I hope that makes some sense...

[Gaijin]

When I first saw it was when an AD pulled it out from under a counter while making a shushing motion with his finger.

This was back in 2007. I ended up buying it later. It's one of the few Rolex that I ever made a profit on. That was before they were discontinued. Wish I hadn't sold it. It was beautiful. No rehaut engraving.

To answer your questions , no I don't think it's vintage. Its definitely not a novelty. It has stood the test of time, it's great looking on the wrist and now that it's been discontinued for years appreciating.

If you like it. Get one. I don't think you'll regret it.

[jakerusty]

Does anyone have an opinion on an early Model with severe patina green on bezel. Mine is so light it almost looks like lime.


And this is how it's supposed to look.



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[crazycarlitos]

Originally Posted by jakerusty

Does anyone have an opinion on an early Model with severe patina green on bezel. Mine is so light it almost looks like lime.

The color fades as the time passes..

But I think earlier ones were little more olive to begin with.


I don't think lv is vintage yet. It's still relatively new considering the years.

I believe the 'flat 4' refers to the inside of 4 on the top.

See how mine in a sharp slant (pic below) and the olive one (above pic) is flat inside?

I m not sure if flat 4 or the actual 50th edition (2003 f-serial) will be more valuable. Time will tell.

[droptopman]

Seen a few of these "faded" bezel inserts. I had an LV in the past and looked for a new insert and ran across a few that were pretty faded for not being that "old". May have been a batch they made that for whatever reason turns this more Olive color rather quickly.

[joe100]

No, not vintage

[MATCH1969]

Not vintage but nice

[JP Chestnut]

I doubt any "vintage person" would consider it vintage - many base it on features more than years. There's a lot of resistance to calling anything without plexi "vintage".

[Dusko.Popov]

My "flat 4" *true* anniversary sub. F Serial. October, 2003. Unpolished. Shows wear because it was never a "safe queen."

[karmatp]

Not vintage or rare.

[Sarko]

Originally Posted by crazycarlitos

The color fades as the time passes..

But I think earlier ones were little more olive to begin with.


I don't think lv is vintage yet. It's still relatively new considering the years.

I believe the 'flat 4' refers to the inside of 4 on the top.

See how mine in a sharp slant (pic below) and the olive one (above pic) is flat inside?

I m not sure if flat 4 or the actual 50th edition (2003 f-serial) will be more valuable. Time will tell.

Not vintage yet indeed. The value of Flat 4 is already way higher in Europe than a normal Kermit. Just check Chrono24

[karmatp]

Originally Posted by Sarko

Not vintage yet indeed. The value of Flat 4 is already way higher in Europe than a normal Kermit. Just check Chrono24

So silly. It is just a bezel insert for goodness sake. Honestly, people search for any reason to make their watches worth more. Sellers take full advantage of this garbage and sadly, less informed buyers pay way to much for a mass produced watch.

[jrs146]

I agree with the other comments that it's not vintage. Despite that fact, they are selling for a nice premium and seem to be going up in price.


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[airchitect]

Of the lv's that black dial, grn bezel combo is my favorite!

[Dusko.Popov]

The earlier run bezel inserts (y and f series) were a little more lime. The color change is noticeable - especially when contrasted against each other. It's not fading. It is an actual difference in the hue.

As for those saying that "it's just the bezel insert," that's a little disingenuous. The early runs had the "flat 4," the more oval "O" in the word "Rolex," (which appeared in other iterations but without the other nuances) and different spacing for various words on the dial face as in the words "Swiss made" (if I remember correctly).

Some may say that these are just superficial differences, but are they any more superficial than dial subtleties like the word "submariner" indicated in red or gold instead of white? Arguably, the dial face is an equally interchangeable part of the watch considering that a new dial face can be sourced to replace an old and aged part.

[GsurgBM]

My f serial dec 2003 date on papers. Worn happily.

[AU_911tt]

Originally Posted by karmatp

So silly. It is just a bezel insert for goodness sake. Honestly, people search for any reason to make their watches worth more. Sellers take full advantage of this garbage and sadly, less informed buyers pay way to much for a mass produced watch.

I would disagree. It is simply supply and demand. They are much easier to find without, and harder to find with the flat 4. This equals higher price.

[Ru4scuba]

Originally Posted by karmatp

So silly. It is just a bezel insert for goodness sake. Honestly, people search for any reason to make their watches worth more. Sellers take full advantage of this garbage and sadly, less informed buyers pay way to much for a mass produced watch.

I can understand the sentiment, but the Flat 4 is usually associated with the 2003 model which is the "true" 50th anniversary of the sub if I'm not mistaken. In the eyes of a collector, this fact will make the watch more valuable than the others...so it's really about more than just the bezel.

From a purist collector standpoint, the actual watch produced during the 50th anniversary year will always be a bit more valuable than the watch produced in the 51st, 52nd etc. As a result, some will be willing to pay a bit more to get it.

[bobabreath]

I consider the LV a "classic" Rolex, with the older vintage models having the acrylic crystal.

I think it is silly that the Flat 4 version gets attention because of one differently shaped numeral on the bezel. But they are more rare so I guess that makes them more valuable.

[kbutler971]

My input, a "F" series flat 4.
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