Patek - the basics of building a great collection

[roma1280]

I am complete novice when it comes to Patek and would be interested in understanding what the basics are of putting together a great Patek collection (in case I win the lotto of course).

What are the basic things to look for when buying a Patek?
What do collectors value or dislike?
What are the dos and don'ts of investing in Patek?
How does the market think about/value white gold vs platinum, or rose vs yellow gold?
What are the most liquid/understood watches/category of watches?
How does wearing them affect the value?
What are tips for trying to minmize wear?
Should you try and have a strap for daily wear and one in the box?
Can/should older watches be restored?
Who restores them?
It seems like perpetual calendar with chrono is a "benchmark" watch like the 1518,2499,3970,5970,5270 series.
If you were going to build a collection of these as an example, should you try and have all one metal type like white gold, or vary the metals, or get one of each?
How about the different series within these watches, like the 5970 with or without the "chin"?
If you had $1m to spend on Patek would you spend it on one or two important pieces, new or vintage? Would you pick a theme like chrono perp calendar or diversify by complication type?

Sorry lots of dumb questions I know but any help much appreciated.

[Alford78]

Wow. Ok. Most of your questions aren't really related to Patek in general and are just basic personal preference options/opinions so you can treat them that way.

I wouldn't get hung up on all of the little things. That's one heck of a list of questions and each should bring up a thread or ten about the topic if just type it in the search box. No offense but that is just too many questions for one thread and you'll get far more feedback with a more narrow range of questions.

Watch collecting basically boils down to what watch speaks to the individual collector and if a collector deviates from that then the watch most likely won't stay in the collection for very long. Buying watches speculatively as investments will only burn the collector in most circumstances unless it is a limited edition that has a history of being collectible but then that wouldn't be speculation, would it.

OEM straps are normally the best fitting and best complimenting option for each piece but feel free to do what you want, it's your watch. Deals are out there for most OEM straps and even custom straps made specifically for certain models so they aren't really that important in the grande scheme of things. Just keep the hardware in as good of shape as possible and you'll be fine.

Hopefully some of that was helpful. Search around and take your time researching. The answers are most likely there and if not make a thread as if there isn't a thread on a certain topic then the group would certainly participate in a fresh one.

Good luck and remember the search and hunt is sometimes the most rewarding part of this hobby!

[willski]

Patek can service all vintage pieces.

Regarding the investment questions, who knows what the landscape will be decades from now? Generally speaking though grand comps hold value better than low end Patek's.

Your other questions are subjective and there is no real answer - buy what you love and your collection will grow organically/


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[thomaspp]

Well I'd start with a 1518, followed by 5970J and P and 5070 G and P and last 5004 in steel. Do you have any $ left over after that?


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[de66]

Not really dumb questions.
But go through this forum. Really take your time, but once you have read most of the topics related to your questions you will have a much better understanding of what you are asking.
This forum will absorb a lot of your time but all the regulars are guys who know what they are talking about. The information is priceless.

Have fun!

[el1125]

Originally Posted by thomaspp

Well I'd start with a 1518, followed by 5970J and P and 5070 G and P and last 5004 in steel. Do you have any $ left over after that?


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He would not have enough cash for all those with only $1M.

[AK797]

This feels like an assignment.

[waspy1]

Originally Posted by AK797

This feels like an assignment.

Lol

[roma1280]

Originally Posted by thomaspp

Well I'd start with a 1518, followed by 5970J and P and 5070 G and P and last 5004 in steel. Do you have any $ left over after that?


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Great suggestions thank you. Let me check under the sofa cushions, I am sure there is some extra money there somewhere!

Seriously though, would you buy the same watch in different metals or would you diversify by ref?

[roma1280]

Originally Posted by Alford78

Good luck and remember the search and hunt is sometimes the most rewarding part of this hobby!

super helpful thank you

[roma1280]

Originally Posted by de66

This forum will absorb a lot of your time but all the regulars are guys who know what they are talking about. The information is priceless.

Have fun!

Thank you and yes lots of homework to do!

[roma1280]

OK let me ask my dumb questions one at a time.

I have read that it seems that manual wind watches are in some way better for the really complicated watches instead of an automatic. I don't understand that, it would seem that all things being equal you would want it to be automatic no?

[jon_jon]

Originally Posted by roma1280

OK let me ask my dumb questions one at a time.

I have read that it seems that manual wind watches are in some way better for the really complicated watches instead of an automatic. I don't understand that, it would seem that all things being equal you would want it to be automatic no?

If you look at Patek Philippe's history, all of their chronographs and perpetual calendar chronographs have been manual wind watches. If you look at historical auction results, these two types of Patek watches tend to bring in the highest prices. So they are highly respected watches within Patek Philippe community.

As for Patek perpetual calendars, they have made self-wind watches (aka automatic) for over 50 years. I don't think Patek has made any manual wind perpetual or annual calendar watches in recent years.

I don't know if one can say a manual wind or automatic is better. For an automatic watch, if you want to look at the movement from the back, the rotor covers a large section of the movement. But a manual wind watch without a rotor will be able to exhibit more of the watch movement. To many collectors, the ability to see the movement in full view is important through a clear sapphire caseback.

[subtona]

Originally Posted by roma1280

OK let me ask my dumb questions one at a time.

I have read that it seems that manual wind watches are in some way better for the really complicated watches instead of an automatic. I don't understand that, it would seem that all things being equal you would want it to be automatic no?

Short answer No.


Longer answer, Google some pics of manual wind Pateks (5370) then have a look at automatic...no comparison at all.

A lot of work goes into making all the different components, imho that is where the value is found at the higher price points.

[descartes]

Reading in between the lines, it sounds like you want to buy a Patek for investment purposes. If that's the case the best 2499 you can and stick it in a box for 30 years.

[lapince]

WOW now those are very good questions but for many threads, not just one, about the having 1 million I would get my grail complication, minute repeater with moon phase, they usually come with a PC or tourbillon or both, now you are already between 500 and 800k, and of course a Nautilus is a must, the grail is the 5711P if you can get one, but a 5711 or 5712 in SS will do, and probably also a chrono, since you would have already PC and moon phase you could go for a chrono only complication, so 5070P or 5370P, and basically you have your million dollars right there, what also matters is what pieces you already have from other brands, though supposing one would have 1M only for PP I would suppose that person would have other watches, if not there are incredible watches outside of PP as well, for example the Lange Datograph, which by the words of the watch maker that some consider the best alive, Philippe Dufour, is the best chronograph in the world, though it is german;
Like De66 said take your time, there are plenty of threads here that will give you great info, and when you like a model just google it and you will find a great deal of reviews on great watch sites.

About manual vs auto, just look at a manual movement and an auto, you'll figure it out, I can suggest in manual Lange datograph again and any Patek chrono or chrono with PC and moon phase, then any auto you want on the other side, the first ones are a miniature world of art, the second ones often beautiful but don't arrive to the knees of the first ones.

Good luck

[de66]

Originally Posted by roma1280

OK let me ask my dumb questions one at a time.

I have read that it seems that manual wind watches are in some way better for the really complicated watches instead of an automatic. I don't understand that, it would seem that all things being equal you would want it to be automatic no?

My understanding is that historically an automatic was not able to provide enough power on a constant basis for all the complications to guarantee an accurate and reliable running time piece. Complications required a lot of power to run, this was first attempted to be solved by improving the mainsprings springs and reducing friction and energy losses through othe methods and inventions.
(As the watch spring winds down it produces less and less power and trying to solve this problem lead to inventions like the Fusee https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fusee_(horology))

Clearly as time has moved on we now see that improvements made to the springs and winding mechanisms allow for greater efficiency in converting and storing movement energy into the watch mechanism. This is because we now see watches with many complications being produced as automatics. As a top of the line manufacturer you just could not allow yourself to sell a watch that was a poor time keeper, a watch that would make your elite clients late for their appointments.

Searchart, can you shed more light on this? Thx

I think that prices reflect the historical and nostalgic aspects. A manual shows off the inner workings better as an automatic usually has the rotor partially blocking the view.

[kilyung]

Four words... Buy what you like.

[subtona]

Manual

[subtona]

Vs auto

[SohAIS]

Nice pic comparison Gus

[el1125]

1. Nautilus
2. World time
3. Annual Calander
4. Chrono
5. Perpetual Calander chrono
6. Split Seconds
7. Minute Repeater
8. Maybe a vintage piece?

[roma1280]

Originally Posted by descartes

Reading in between the lines, it sounds like you want to buy a Patek for investment purposes. If that's the case the best 2499 you can and stick it in a box for 30 years.

Yes love the 2499. Actually buying for enjoyment but can't afford to not care what happens to the value! Apart from the 2 platinum and 4 rose gold they were all yellow gold is that correct? What is a nice one worth?

[roma1280]

Originally Posted by lapince

WOW now those are very good questions but for many threads, not just one, about the having 1 million I would get my grail complication, minute repeater with moon phase, they usually come with a PC or tourbillon or both, now you are already between 500 and 800k, and of course a Nautilus is a must, the grail is the 5711P if you can get one, but a 5711 or 5712 in SS will do, and probably also a chrono, since you would have already PC and moon phase you could go for a chrono only complication, so 5070P or 5370P, and basically you have your million dollars right there, what also matters is what pieces you already have from other brands, though supposing one would have 1M only for PP I would suppose that person would have other watches, if not there are incredible watches outside of PP as well, for example the Lange Datograph, which by the words of the watch maker that some consider the best alive, Philippe Dufour, is the best chronograph in the world, though it is german;
Like De66 said take your time, there are plenty of threads here that will give you great info, and when you like a model just google it and you will find a great deal of reviews on great watch sites.

About manual vs auto, just look at a manual movement and an auto, you'll figure it out, I can suggest in manual Lange datograph again and any Patek chrono or chrono with PC and moon phase, then any auto you want on the other side, the first ones are a miniature world of art, the second ones often beautiful but don't arrive to the knees of the first ones.

Good luck

Thank you great thoughts. Can't focus on other marques for now, too much to learn already in PP, but I do love the Lange Datograf.

[roma1280]

Thank you Gus and others, I'm starting to understand the manual vs automatic.
The pics are great.

[roma1280]

Originally Posted by el1125

1. Nautilus
2. World time
3. Annual Calander
4. Chrono
5. Perpetual Calander chrono
6. Split Seconds
7. Minute Repeater
8. Maybe a vintage piece?

All great suggestions.

How about the 5207p? This seems like an importance piece yet the market seems to be valuing a fair bit below original price. Can anyone evaluate the 5207p please? I get that it's not super traditional with the honey dial etc, but if you can buy one for almost half price is that an opportunity to enjoy a great watch where you probably have some upside or is the market telling us something?

[roma1280]

Originally Posted by el1125

1. Nautilus
2. World time
3. Annual Calander
4. Chrono
5. Perpetual Calander chrono
6. Split Seconds
7. Minute Repeater
8. Maybe a vintage piece?

PS I'm obsessed with the minute repeater complication. I wouldn't even know how to start to build something mechanical to do that. Is there anywhere that explains what algorithm the mechanism follows or that explains how it's built?

[roma1280]

Originally Posted by kilyung

Four words... Buy what you like.

Yes completely agree. I'm a car guy and follow that 100% for cars and it makes complete sense for watches and art too.

[roma1280]

Originally Posted by el1125

1. Nautilus

So agree Nautilus is super chic and great for everyday. I assume these are made in high numbers so are you losing money as soon as you drive off the lot so to speak?

[LitzDoc]

Originally Posted by roma1280

So agree Nautilus is super chic and great for everyday. I assume these are made in high numbers so are you losing money as soon as you drive off the lot so to speak?

Buy preowned you will save lots. Watches are not investments. It is a hobby that will cost you money like any other hobby. Buy to enjoy.