What Are Your Thoughts On This 5513

[speedolex]

Came across a 1964 Submariner, my birth year, has obvious sentimental value and I've always wanted a no-date Sub. No box, no papers, no bracelet.

The seller told me the dial was original, designed for a 5512, and that Rolex often put a dial from one reference to another during transitional periods. From my research, I thought a '64 would have a gilt dial, but not sure what to make of that or the sellers commentary.

Any light the experts can shed on this would be greatly appreciated.

[Kingface66]

A '64 Sub should absolutely be gilt. That dial is a matte 5512 dial, and I believe, because of the Submariner on the top line, a service dial.

[speedolex]

Originally Posted by Kingface66

A '64 Sub should absolutely be gilt. That dial is a matte 5512 dial, and I believe, because of the Submariner on the top line, a service dial.

Thank you Kingface, any thoughts on the bezel originality or case thickness?

[1675-David]

service insert too and probably the hands, it's also been polished more than a few times, if the price is right an cool daily wear.

[speedolex]

Originally Posted by 1675-David

service insert too and probably the hands, it's also been polished more than a few times, if the price is right an cool daily wear.

Would ~$5,000 be acceptable or too high?

[rollyp]

$5K is quite reasonable for a 5513 but you have a watch with a dial that doesn't match the era and hands whose color doesn't match the lume on the dial.

[Kingface66]

I could see the lighter hands being a point of constant...what's the word....consternation every time I checked the time. You might THINK you'll get over it, and you certainly may, but it could equally drive you bananas if you're prone to that sorta thing....(full confession: I am)

[Kiaraff]

It looks like one of the crownguards is almost gone, that would be a serious dealbreaker for me.

[speedolex]

Originally Posted by rollyp

$5K is quite reasonable for a 5513 but you have a watch with a dial that doesn't match the era and hands whose color doesn't match the lume on the dial.

What does a good 5513 with proper service dial, matching service hands, and service bezel go for?

I actually prefer service parts because it gives me a watch in near new condition. This particular example is bothering me due to the mismatch and some of the other comments other posters have made.

[vertiasnyc1493]

Originally Posted by Kiaraff

It looks like one of the crownguards is almost gone, that would be a serious dealbreaker for me.

Yikes!

[vertiasnyc1493]

Originally Posted by speedolex

What does a good 5513 with proper service dial, matching service hands, and service bezel go for?

I actually prefer service parts because it gives me a watch in near new condition. This particular example is bothering me due to the mismatch and some of the other comments other posters have made.

Michael Morgan has excellent examples that will satisfy your needs.

[16610v]

Despite it is the service dial, it looks so beautiful.

[rollyp]

Originally Posted by speedolex

What does a good 5513 with proper service dial, matching service hands, and service bezel go for?

I actually prefer service parts because it gives me a watch in near new condition. This particular example is bothering me due to the mismatch and some of the other comments other posters have made.

Not sure about a 5513 with service parts but a clean, original 5513 from a reputable dealer starts around $7K-ish.

[speedolex]

Originally Posted by vertiasnyc1493

Michael Morgan has excellent examples that will satisfy your needs.

Who is Michael Morgan and how do I reach him?

[rollyp]

Originally Posted by speedolex

Who is Michael Morgan and how do I reach him?

Michael's a good guy:

http://www.iconicwatchcompany.com


For future reference though, sometimes Google is a lot quicker than waiting for an answer on a message board

[acf321]

www.iconicwatchcompany.com

Michael Morgan is the business owner.

[Robbyvm]

Wrong dial
Service dial
Service insert
Luminova hands
No bracelet
lugs overpolished
...

Plenty of better fish in the sea

[droptopman]

Agree with others. Keep looking. Price is fair if it runs good, but better off paying more for something in better condition.
Good luck on the hunt.

[Wing Zero]

Oh boy what a mess.
I would pass for 5k. The only thing original is the midcase and maybe the movement.

[speedolex]

Originally Posted by Robbyvm

Wrong dial
Service dial
Service insert
Luminova hands
No bracelet
lugs overpolished
...

Plenty of better fish in the sea

Originally Posted by droptopman

Agree with others. Keep looking. Price is fair if it runs good, but better off paying more for something in better condition.
Good luck on the hunt.

Originally Posted by Wing Zero

Oh boy what a mess.
I would pass for 5k. The only thing original is the midcase and maybe the movement.

Thank you all for your help, I will avoid this.

If anyone knows of a 1964 5513 with clean white preferably RSC dial/hands replacements please PM me! Birthyear 5513 is the new grail.

[Old Expat Beast]

Originally Posted by speedolex

Thank you all for your help, I will avoid this.

If anyone knows of a 1964 5513 with clean white preferably RSC dial/hands replacements please PM me! Birthyear 5513 is the new grail.

Maybe get a pledge membership and post a WTB ad?

[speedolex]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

Maybe get a pledge membership and post a WTB ad?

Would it also allow me to sell pieces as well?

[droptopman]

Originally Posted by speedolex

Would it also allow me to sell pieces as well?

Yes I believe it does👍🏻

I get the sense based on your posts you prefer the white lume NOS look and I also like that look on many pieces.
But if you haven't handled a negative relief gilt dialed watch, please check out some gilt dials in the flesh. Good condition gilt dials are really amazing in person. It is hard to capture in pics or describe but they just do incredible things in different lighting. One of the best things Rolex has ever done IMHO. Truly a work of art.
There are some great 1964 gilt 5513's out there.
Just something to consider.

[Kingface66]

Originally Posted by droptopman

Yes I believe it does👍🏻

I get the sense based on your posts you prefer the white lume NOS look and I also like that look on many pieces.
But if you haven't handled a negative relief gilt dialed watch, please check out some gilt dials in the flesh. Good condition gilt dials are really amazing in person. It is hard to capture in pics or describe but they just do incredible things in different lighting. One of the best things Rolex has ever done IMHO. Truly a work of art.
There are some great 1964 gilt 5513's out there.
Just something to consider.

I'm inclined to agree. When I first got my ('66) gilt I remember staring it at for the first few weeks every time it was on my wrist. They're truly something special in real life.
This is one of my favorite 1964 gilt Sub examples. Everything about it...

[Old Expat Beast]

Originally Posted by speedolex

Would it also allow me to sell pieces as well?

Yep..membership has its privileges

[swish77]

Originally Posted by droptopman

Yes I believe it does👍🏻

I get the sense based on your posts you prefer the white lume NOS look and I also like that look on many pieces.
But if you haven't handled a negative relief gilt dialed watch, please check out some gilt dials in the flesh. Good condition gilt dials are really amazing in person. It is hard to capture in pics or describe but they just do incredible things in different lighting. One of the best things Rolex has ever done IMHO. Truly a work of art.
There are some great 1964 gilt 5513's out there.
Just something to consider.

Sure, they're amazing, but the prices .... Ouch!. HQ Milton had a stunning 1964 Sub recently, listed at $34K. It was sold, but you can still find the photos of it on the website by searching 1964. A '64 Sub with service replacement dial and hands would probably be a third of the price, probably even cheaper. Good luck in your search.

[speedolex]

Originally Posted by droptopman

Yes I believe it does����

I get the sense based on your posts you prefer the white lume NOS look and I also like that look on many pieces.
But if you haven't handled a negative relief gilt dialed watch, please check out some gilt dials in the flesh. Good condition gilt dials are really amazing in person. It is hard to capture in pics or describe but they just do incredible things in different lighting. One of the best things Rolex has ever done IMHO. Truly a work of art.
There are some great 1964 gilt 5513's out there.
Just something to consider.

Thanks, but truth be told I'm not going to spend over $7,000 for a 5513. My daily wearer's, that's my financial limit before thinking that what I'm wearing costs real money and I'd baby it. It's just a personal ceiling I've found I'm comfortable with.

What I'm considering now to get in a birth-year 5513 that's semi-authentic would be this:

Buy this '64 5313 for under $5,000
Find a matte two-line dial for $X,XXX
Find a 78360 bracelet w/proper endpieces for $X,XXX

....and wind up with a 1964 5513 daily wearer with a 2-line dial with matte lume hour markers and be happy.

Question is, do you think this can be done for $7,000?

[Rameez-Q]

Originally Posted by speedolex

Thanks, but truth be told I'm not going to spend over $7,000 for a 5513. My daily wearer's, that's my financial limit before thinking that what I'm wearing costs real money and I'd baby it. It's just a personal ceiling I've found I'm comfortable with.

What I'm considering now to get in a birth-year 5513 that's semi-authentic would be this:

Buy this '64 5313 for under $5,000
Find a matte two-line dial for $X,XXX
Find a 78360 bracelet w/proper endpieces for $X,XXX

....and wind up with a 1964 5513 daily wearer with a 2-line dial with matte lume hour markers and be happy.

Question is, do you think this can be done for $7,000?

No. Vintage parts especially original dials come at a premium.

[Wing Zero]

Originally Posted by speedolex

Thanks, but truth be told I'm not going to spend over $7,000 for a 5513. My daily wearer's, that's my financial limit before thinking that what I'm wearing costs real money and I'd baby it. It's just a personal ceiling I've found I'm comfortable with.

What I'm considering now to get in a birth-year 5513 that's semi-authentic would be this:

Buy this '64 5313 for under $5,000
Find a matte two-line dial for $X,XXX
Find a 78360 bracelet w/proper endpieces for $X,XXX

....and wind up with a 1964 5513 daily wearer with a 2-line dial with matte lume hour markers and be happy.

Question is, do you think this can be done for $7,000?

Yes you can do it.

I've seen Meter First Matte dials sell for around $1000-1500 on VRM
You can probably sell your Matte 5512 Service dial for around $500-800
Why 78360? 78360's are for GMT's.
I would go for a C&I for the cheap route, 7206 for the expensive route. 93150 for the mid route.

But because you can do it, doesn't mean you should do it. a Meter First or Feet First 5513 dial is as incorrect as a 5512 Service dial . They are all incorrect. so just keep the 5512 service dial in the watch.
If it was me, the first thing I would replace are those blinding white hands. You can get a nice set of 5513 Tritium hands for around $500.

[speedolex]

Originally Posted by Wing Zero

Yes you can do it.

I've seen Meter First Matte dials sell for around $1000-1500 on VRM
You can probably sell your Matte 5512 Service dial for around $500-800

That's good news, net I'd be ~$400 out of pocket, not bad. Are the 2-line meter first service dials hard to come by or frequent in your opinion?

Originally Posted by Wing Zero

Why 78360? 78360's are for GMT's.
I would go for a C&I for the cheap route, 7206 for the expensive route. 93150 for the mid route.

The 78360 is my favorite vintage bracelet, I find it's extremely comfortable on me and it's a perfect Rolex tweener- not as flimsy/lightweight as a riveted bracelet and not as heavy/bulky as the later day SEL bracelets. Unless you are saying that a 78360 would not fit or look inappropriate on a 5513?

Originally Posted by Wing Zero

But because you can do it, doesn't mean you should do it. a Meter First or Feet First 5513 dial is as incorrect as a 5512 Service dial . They are all incorrect. so just keep the 5512 service dial in the watch.

While incorrect historically on a '64, at least the 2-line service dial is what was intended for the 5513 as opposed to the 4-line service dial that was intended for a 5512. I don't mind (actually, I prefer) a mint service dial to an aged original dial, but I do want it to have the original type.

Originally Posted by Wing Zero

If it was me, the first thing I would replace are those blinding white hands. You can get a nice set of 5513 Tritium hands for around $500.

Ah, but it's the inverse for me. I want to keep the blinding white hands and find a blinding white 2-line service dial. I have nothing against gentle khaki patina, but if given a choice I want a matching set of bright white dial/hands not yellowed. Just personal preference.