Eric Ku Interview About Rolex Daytonas

[JohnBaker3]

https://www.revolution.watch/the-pau...ng-to-eric-ku/

Hey Guys:

The head honcho of Vintage Rolex Forum gave this interesting interview recently.

Pretty awesome, if Paul Newman's get you excited!



Photo from the article....

[subtona]

Great stuff thanks for sharing.

[speedolex]

Great read! I especially liked hearing Eric chime in on the 'patina' debate:

Q: I appreciate and feel a longing towards tropical dials, but honestly some supposedly tropical dials in auction catalogues just look like they were shat out of the ass of a civet cat to me. How do you feel?

This has been a debate going around in collector’s circles. Because the word “tropical” is used to describe the naturally occurring brownish patina on watch dials, but there is no real definition. So what does that mean? It means beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I tend to think of a tropical dial as something aged beautifully with even patina — and that to me is really beautiful. Then you have watches like a Submariner that was beat up its entire life, the dial is pockmarked and has changed color, not naturally, but because the surface is blistering. That’s garbage to me.

Q: And every auction I see iterations of aged dials bestowed with new creative nomenclature…

These are just terms made up by dealers to sucker novices. Thankfully, I feel the collecting world is pretty intelligent and they catch on pretty quickly. Even now, you’ll see something in an auction catalogue described as tropical and it’s not, it’s just ugly. For example, the Double Red Sea-Dweller that I sold you. That has a nice, even brown hue to it. It’s not pitted or spotted. That’s something that nine out of 10 people would look at and say, ‘That’s really nice.” Human beings are engineered to appreciate beauty and when it comes down to it, any aged dial should be genuinely beautiful to most people, as opposed to something that is all spotty and looks crappy, and that only the seller seems to like.

[springer]

A civet cat. Hmmm. Look that up in your Funk and Wagnall.

[Gnomon]

Originally Posted by springer

A civet cat. Hmmm. Look that up in your Funk and Wagnall.

And Google Kopi Luwak for added context/resonance :P


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[springer]

[QUOTE=Gnomon;6897980]And Google Kopi Luwak for added context/resonance :P


That's why I gave up coffee. You just never know.

[ILuvSubs]

A great read and good to hear the thoughts of one of the leading vintage Rolex dealers Thanks for sharing

[themaninblack]

But not like this of course! http://10pastten.com/watch/ta730 or this http://10pastten.com/watch/ta519 or what about a Submariner "non-date", whatever that is! http://10pastten.com/watch/ta703

[Gnomon]

[QUOTE=springer;6898001]

Originally Posted by Gnomon

And Google Kopi Luwak for added context/resonance :P

Originally Posted by Gnomon

That's why I gave up coffee. You just never know.

Tried it once. Pleasant enough and didn't taste like like it came out of a Civet's butt, but also wasn't commensurate with the price I paid for the experience.

Apparently there is a thriving fake Kopi Luwak industry. Some of the 'better' fakes are made by attempting to replicate in vitro the stomach acids and enzymes of the beast in question.

To get back to the thread, what Eric Ku says makes perfect sense. If a vintage watch's dial isn't visually appealing and looks like it's had a dose of smallpox, then don't pay attention to any verbiage in the sales pitch. Beauty *is* something we instinctively recognise. One doesn't have to be Roger Scruton to get that.

[themaninblack]

Originally Posted by Gnomon

To get back to the thread, what Eric Ku says makes perfect sense. If a vintage watch's dial isn't visually appealing and looks like it's had a dose of smallpox, then don't pay attention to any verbiage in the sales pitch. Beauty *is* something we instinctively recognise. One doesn't have to be Roger Scruton to get that.

The "beauty" of commercial objects is the product of merchants and marketing, nothing more. Goyard bags are not especially beautiful but they are a beautiful piece of marketing.

[Old Expat Beast]

I suppose this could be called a real tropical dial in the sense that this watch was sold as a "Tropical Watch" in its native Singapore (by a Rolex AD) in the 1940s. I doubt most people would find this dial particularly attractive, but I like it, and enjoy wearing it. Perhaps because it only cost me $25.

[janice&fred]

Originally Posted by themaninblack

But not like this of course! http://10pastten.com/watch/ta730 or this http://10pastten.com/watch/ta519 or what about a Submariner "non-date", whatever that is! http://10pastten.com/watch/ta703

the first two examples are very appealing looking tropical dialed watches and the third is a non-date submariner. what's the mystery?

[themaninblack]

Originally Posted by janice&fred

the first two examples are very appealing looking tropical dialed watches and the third is a non-date submariner. what's the mystery?

The gold sub has a dial that looks like an example of the excrement that the interview is mockingly critical of but dressed up verbally to perhaps have an interesting sleazy past! Marketing. People are fully justified in liking it or any form of Patina of course, not being dictated to by Mr Ku or anyone else.

What is a non-date Submariner!

[janice&fred]

Originally Posted by themaninblack

The gold sub has a dial that looks like an example of the excrement that the interview is mockingly critical of but dressed up verbally to perhaps have an interesting sleazy past! Marketing. People are fully justified in liking it or any form of Patina of course, not being dictated to by Mr Ku or anyone else.

What is a non-date Submariner!

well your first comment is a bit subjective as most vintage enthusiasts would be drawn to the two tropical dialed examples regardless of your caustic opinion, and your last question is rather self-explanatory as one would assume a non-date submariner is a watch without date function. i don't quite get the animosity of people towards experts and respected dealers in this hobby as Eric's opinions are just as valid as yours, and he was not dictating anything.

[Wesley Crusher]

Originally Posted by janice&fred

the first two examples are very appealing looking tropical dialed watches and the third is a non-date submariner. what's the mystery?

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but the first example (gold Sub) is not what I would call appealing.

[Ghould]

Originally Posted by themaninblack

But not like this of course! http://10pastten.com/watch/ta730 or this http://10pastten.com/watch/ta519 or what about a Submariner "non-date", whatever that is! http://10pastten.com/watch/ta703

The dial on the gold sub is beautiful. It's like a gold sub with a birchwood dial. Not what is generally considered tropical, but still beautiful.

[speedolex]

Originally Posted by janice&fred

well your first comment is a bit subjective as most vintage enthusiasts would be drawn to the two tropical dialed examples regardless of your caustic opinion.

I just want to make sure I'm understanding you clearly: You believe that most vintage enthusiasts would be drawn to this watch and would pay a premium because instead of brilliant sunburst blue the dial looks like a rusty hubcap?



Another one from Eric's site, this time with a bezel that is faded beyond hope.

In the article, Eric correctly points out that dealers too frequently make up their own terms to sell rubbish, isn't he doing the same thing himself?

[Ghould]

Originally Posted by speedolex

I just want to make sure I'm understanding you clearly: You believe that most vintage enthusiasts would be drawn to this watch and would pay a premium because instead of brilliant sunburst blue the dial looks like a rusty hubcap?


Another one from Eric's site, this time with a bezel that is faded beyond hope.

In the article, Eric correctly points out that dealers too frequently make up their own terms to sell rubbish, isn't he doing the same thing himself?

Rusty hubcap? Faded beyond hope? Are we looking at the same watches here?

[speedolex]

Originally Posted by Ghould

Rusty hubcap? Faded beyond hope? Are we looking at the same watches here?

I'm not sure. Here's how I would describe them:

The YG Submariner has a dial that is supposed to be radiant blue and instead looks like the bottom of a soiled diaper.

The GMT has a bezel that is supposed to be blue and looks like a junkyard 1971 Buick Impala that's been out in the Arizona sun for 40 years.

I, like many others, like some gentle patina. These are beyond hope. I wear one of these, I show them to family at Thanksgiving, they say "wow, when are you going to get it fixed?"

[AS1]

the dial on that gold sub is absolutely vile to my eyes at least.....

[GB-man]

Originally Posted by AS1

the dial on that gold sub is absolutely vile to my eyes at least.....

Agreed. Not for me. I see no problem with the pepsi bezel though

[janice&fred]

Originally Posted by speedolex

I just want to make sure I'm understanding you clearly: You believe that most vintage enthusiasts would be drawn to this watch and would pay a premium because instead of brilliant sunburst blue the dial looks like a rusty hubcap?



Another one from Eric's site, this time with a bezel that is faded beyond hope.

In the article, Eric correctly points out that dealers too frequently make up their own terms to sell rubbish, isn't he doing the same thing himself?

yes it's my opinion that most enthusiasts would like the tropical dials shown and no i don't think he is selling rubbish. hope that helps you to understand me clearly?

[southtexas]

Originally Posted by springer

A civet cat. Hmmm. Look that up in your Funk and Wagnall.

I was curious so I did google it...



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[crowncollection]

Originally Posted by southtexas

I was curious so I did google it...



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The coffee is smooth once you get over the process lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[speedolex]

Originally Posted by janice&fred

yes it's my opinion that most enthusiasts would like the tropical dials shown and no i don't think he is selling rubbish. hope that helps you to understand me clearly?

A few enthusiasts in this forum perhaps, but no way in the real world where most of us read The Emperors New Clothes as children.

[janice&fred]

Originally Posted by speedolex

A few enthusiasts in this forum perhaps, but no way in the real world where most of us read The Emperors New Clothes as children.

it's obvious that we have different opinions but your harsh criticisms of the guy and saying things like "selling rubbish" and "no way" are declarations that basically flies in the face of reality. it's no secret that loads of vintage enthusiasts aside from a few members in this forum find patina, faded and "tropical" watches pleasing. you don't and i'm fine with that so let's not beat this dead horse. like it or not, people vote with their money and these types of vintage watches do command a premium.