Bought Gold Plated Vintage Rolex on eBay

[TonyHsu]

Hi guys,

I purchased a 1973 Two Tone Rolex DateJust on eBay about a week ago. The sellers pictures looked great, everything seemed original when I eventually received it.

The trouble started a few days ago, when I was examining the watch under bright light, the supposedly "18k gold" bezel had long silver-looking stripes across some places. I erroneously thought the silver stripes were caused by reflection or lighting and didn't think too much of it. Silly me.

Earlier today, I decided to polish the acrylic (which was somewhat badly scratched) with Polywatch (for those who don't know, it's a harmless polisher for acrylic crystals), while the Polywatch worked wonders, I discovered the supposedly "18k gold" crown had some serious silvery spotting. Upon close inspection, I can tell with confidence the crown was definitely gold plated.

Well, by this point, what else can I do other than contacting the eBay seller and trying to find out what's going on? So I messaged him nicely, asking him to find a source to independently verify if the "gold" is plated or consider a return. To my surprise, the seller just sent through the two following messages:

"H, the gold is 18k plated or not, if it has been plated or not it's solid 18 k you should not have attempted to polish the crystal your self. Unless you are a watch maker, everyone knows that you take to a professional to clean any scratches. The details are tiny and minuscule I have owned that watch for many years and never bother about such minor details. Why did his buy a vintage 1973 Rolex? You should have stayed away from vintage watches. You have damaged the watch. You were happy with it until you damaged it by doing something you should not have attempted. I reiterate the bezel is 18k wether plated or not. Im sorry you have damaged such a beautiful old watch. It lasted from 1973 until you bought it. Buy a new watch vintage watches are not something you understand"

"You were happy with the watch until you attempted self restoration on a vintage watch that you are obviously not qualified to do and you have now damaged the watch. Are you prepared to pay to restore the damage you have done? The bezel is 18 carat gold as stated be it plated or not it's 18 carat gold"

I am simply speechless.

It's absolutely beyond me what this seller is trying to convey.

Anyway, I'm afraid now I'll have to wait at least a few weeks before eBay decides on my return case and get my refund. I guess it's a lesson to be learnt!

Please let me know if there's some alternative course of action that I can take. Otherwise, thanks for reading my rant, I sincerely hope your vintage Rolex journey goes better than mine.

Cheers,
Tony

[SPARTAN2161]

Send it back. eBay sides with the buyer 9/10 times. Good luck!

P.S. What was the item description of the crown and bezel? If he state solid 18K and its not, there is a right of return right there.

Good Luck!

[Tools]

Your e-bay seller sounds less than reputable.

Date Just gold bezels are gold through and through, not plated, and you should never have to take your watch to a "professional" for cleaning the crystal, as "everybody knows"..

[Richard Carver]

Sounds like he yellow gold plated the crown and bezel on a stainless watch. Post some pics, that will help tremendously.

[landroverking]

Pics would help. You sure it's not a shell watch from the 70s?

[PVR]

The seller is very shrewd and he made certain to state and repeat that YOU damaged the watch. He isn't accurate but, the fool who looks at the ebay cases has no clue and has to follow protocol.

You will not win or get your money back because you "polished" the crystal. By altering the watch you have done yourself in. You shouldnt have told him you did anything to it, just said that you see steel showing through the gold and you would be a winner 99% of the time. Now that you "touched" it, he doesn't have to honor the refund.

The less you do through ebay messaging the better you are.

[quimbcn]

Put some pics..that will help

Enviado desde mi SM-G930F mediante Tapatalk

[rucoi]

Originally Posted by PVR

the fool who looks at the ebay cases has no clue and has to follow protocol.

You will not win or get your money back because you "polished" the crystal. By altering the watch you have done yourself in. You shouldnt have told him you did anything to it..

Sadly true, words to live by when dealing with ebay. You'll have to do your best in educating your case rep and I would recommend calling them a couple weeks after the case has been open. Rest assured the seller will fight this tooth and nail and drag it out for months. Quick and expedited resolutions are not ebay's forte when neither party is willing to budge.

[Punchthefatkid]

Originally Posted by PVR

The seller is very shrewd and he made certain to state and repeat that YOU damaged the watch. He isn't accurate but, the fool who looks at the ebay cases has no clue and has to follow protocol.

You will not win or get your money back because you "polished" the crystal. By altering the watch you have done yourself in. You shouldnt have told him you did anything to it, just said that you see steel showing through the gold and you would be a winner 99% of the time. Now that you "touched" it, he doesn't have to honor the refund.

The less you do through ebay messaging the better you are.

I don't agree - regardless of whether the OP polished the watch or not, the fact still remains that the item received was not as described in the ebay listing.

As Tools states in post #3 a gold Rolex watch is solid gold not plated so that makes the sellers listing inaccurate which should be grounds enough for a full refund.

[crowncollection]

Push the return with ebay


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[GGGMT]

Two thoughts, Second of which I'm sure you are now aware:

1. Push the return very hard with eBay;
2. Never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever buy a watch on eBay.


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[TonyHsu]

Thank you guys for all your inputs, I really appreciate it

Please see the attachments for some photos of the watch, the first two are from the seller's listing, last three I took myself. I've used red outline to highlight where the gold is wearing off (much clearer in person, the photos don't show it very well).

Just as some background: the watch was described as "VINTAGE ROLEX FROM 1973 IN PERFECT WORKING ORDER ... BEZEL AND CROWN BOTH 18k ... ALL ORIGINAL ROLEX"

Don't worry, after some events last night, I'm happy to say I've now got the return under control.

I first pushed for the return just as many of you have suggested, of course being nice and polite in my message. I got the following in reply (Note that I will be posting the seller's responses verbatim for humorous purposes )

"
As stated the bezel is 18 carat gold. By your own admission now the watch now "looks better" i have been dealing vintage watches for more than 30 years and NO reputable watch maker uses the product you have described. I again ask who will pay to repair the damage you have caused to a watch that you left positive feed back for? Again it's your damage caused to the watch. Are you prepared to pay for this damage or am I to be responsible for the damage that as you yourself state that you have caused? You are not qualified to do the restoration you have attempted and as such you have damaged the watch. You were happy to receive it as I have emails to prove. It's only now you have damaged the watch you want a refund"

Well, has this guy been dealing in fake watches and ripping people off for 30 years? Again, I have no idea what the seller is on about, but this is when it hit me, the seller specifically asked me to confirm the condition of the watch when it arrived (let's be honest, how often does that happen on eBay?). So maybe, just maybe, was this guy trying to get evidence and preparing for this return all along?

In my reply, I first outlined this watch from fake from the start; I would've never found out the gold was plated if I hadn't tried to polish the crystal. Then I discovered something very interesting: there were absolutely no scratches on the crown and bezel, whereas the rest of the watch really shows its age - hence, they were put on very recently and the seller is the one who knowingly sold me a fake watch (he even said "he owned the watch for many years")!

I then put my Business Law Minor to good use (finally! ), I told him knowingly supply a replica item as well as engaging in fraudulent behaviour is against eBay rules and the laws Down Under, and I am not afraid to take this to the police or even to court if necessary.

In an last ditch attempt, the seller tried to accuse me of switching parts:

"Your first email states the watch dial case hands all original now suddenly it's a fake. You were happy with your purchase. But now you say it's a fake. So let me guess...you have removed parts from the watch? It's not the first time someone try that"

Thankfully, the photos he supplied are of somewhat high quality, they would completely back up my claim that the bezel and crown are near-new as well as they haven't been changed. So I simply replied with something like "let's take this to the police if you so wish, if your watch can't even fool a layman like me, good luck fooling the experts".

So far so good! The seller is, and has been, silent for some time now. I have a flawless case against him, I have all the evidence that he knew the watch was fake and tried to pass it off as genuine, so surely eBay will decide in my favour. I consider this case to be resolved

Cheers

[PVR]

We are all entitled to our opinions and I have been on ebay for 15 years. Let me start by saying I have bought some of my most prized collector pieces on ebay and for a song. If you know what you are looking at and looking for then you can find some of the best values in the watch community.

I will be curious to see how this all pans out but, in my experience it doesn't matter if the item wasn't as described If you modified or altered the item. We all understand that the polishing is insignificant but, it is related. Had the buyer not polished the crystal and the bezel he wouldn't have known it was plated, so it is not unrelated to the action.

If you buy a Ford Bronco on ebay (for example) and paint the hood and upon further inspection you notice the motor is from a Chevy, do you think you can get a refund on the item not being as described? This case isn't as dramatic but, it is nonetheless the same. You touch the item or do anything to it and thats it, you own it. What you find out after the fact is too bad, you altered it and it voids your return.

Watch and see if the OP gets his money back. Not a shot especially since the seller seems to know exactly what to say and how to play the game. The OP has no chance..


In addition, I dont know if it is the crown or the bezel based on the responses, but a date just has a 5.3mm crown and on ebay Genuine ones sell for about $30.
Is it worth fighting the guy for this if thats all that is wrong?

[R.W.T.]

A Datejust has 6.00 crown.

Could we see photos?

It is very difficult to plate stainless steel. It does not hold plating well.

What is the reference model of the watch? Datejust has been made in countless varieties for over 70 years.

Second who would bother to plate a stainless crown...real gold ones are plentiful and not much more than a stainless one used. It would be more trouble to plate it than to replace it. In order to render a flawless surface on a used stainless crown to appear mint...would be..nearly impossible.

I am assuming this is a fluted bezel? Where would one find a stainless steel fluted bezel...no genuine Rolex item ever existed. All fluted bezels are gold either white, yellow or rose.

Once again very hard to corroborate or dispute any of this without photos.

[TonyHsu]

Sorry @PVR and @R.W.T. , I should've been more clear with my description.

Photos have now been uploaded. The watch is a 1601 built in 1970 according to the serial number.

@PVR Thank you for your Ford/Chevy comparison. I realise you have a valid point. Yes, the seller seems to be very smart in dealing with this return, his careful choice of wording is really putting me at a disadvantage.

Nonetheless, it's just a shame when I know the seller is lying, and there isn't much I can do in the immediate term.

@R.W.T. I was surprised myself to see the gold wearing off - similar to everyone else - I wondered why would any seller do such a thing for next to no profit?

I actually proposed to get the watch (esp. the gold parts) checked out at a professional Rolex Dealer in my very first message (at my cost if the watch is genuine). However, all he responded was the tirade of insults saying I damaged the watch - which is the source of much of my frustration.

Thanks again for your inputs!

[Kingface66]

I'm rooting for you, Tony.

[TonyHsu]

Originally Posted by Kingface66

I'm rooting for you, Tony.

[breitlings]

I think the band is fake too?! Good luck.

[TonyHsu]

Originally Posted by breitlings

I think the band is fake too?! Good luck.

Oh great... that too?

[ikorman]

Don't despair, start a case and stick to the facts. I recently had my money fully refunded for a watch that was not as described, just took a few days and some running around with a dealer to have it checked out.

[TonyHsu]

Originally Posted by ikorman

Don't despair, start a case and stick to the facts. I recently had my money fully refunded for a watch that was not as described, just took a few days and some running around with a dealer to have it checked out.

Thank you for sharing! I sure hope my case will go as smoothly as yours.

[R.W.T.]

I bet....that's a white gold bezel...

The band...doesn't look fake to me.

It' just looks like a Wide Boy Stainless and WG 1601 that someone plated the bezel etc.

That dial would never have come in SS/YG watch.

[TonyHsu]

Originally Posted by R.W.T.

I bet....that's a white gold bezel...

The band...doesn't look fake to me.

It' just looks like a Wide Boy Stainless and WG 1601 that someone plated the bezel etc.

That dial would never have come in SS/YG watch.

Yes, that would make a lot of sense. I did think it was weird when I couldn't find any images of this YG/SS combination.

I just wish the seller would be more honest with me and focus on the problem at hand, instead of calling me unqualified from the start.

[R.W.T.]

Yes I failed to mention that the responses of the seller were....just bad.

That is a definite.

Did you pay too much? Provided everything else checks out...it would still be a nice watch with WG bezel and SS crown.

[jban5]

Originally Posted by GGGMT

Two thoughts, Second of which I'm sure you are now aware:

1. Push the return very hard with eBay;
2. Never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever buy a watch on eBay.


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In essence, I agree with #1 but after some thought I wonder if I would want to send the watch back to this seller and hope for any speedy or fair refund. I would get an expert determination about the parts in question and decide if just biting the bullet might be the wiser course of action and replacing them.

I disagree with point #2 emphatically. There are tons of great deals to be had on that site and there are protections and recourse if something is wrong or misrepresented. I personally feel it is more treacherous for a seller than a buyer. As a buyer you get to read the description, decipher whether there is verbiage that sounds deceptive and ask careful questions. As a seller you are obliged to sell to some unknown person who might be using a fraudulent source of funding that 6 mos to a year later bounces on you, or any number of scams that exist.

That's my opinion and it may very well be wrong.

[crowncollection]

The watch is not fake, the dial is original the band is original and a correct 6251h for a steel datejust . The bezel is white gold and yellow gold plated ( someone silly did this ) as a 1601 can be. The crown, well could be fake or the capping coming off, if it is where dents are, I can't tell. It all depends on the price you paid really as to if it's worth keeping. Pretty easy to clean up and straighten out imho

Good luck with what you do with the watch


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[TonyHsu]

Thank you everyone for your helpful replies!

Last night, I messaged the seller very politely asking what happened to the watch. He was kind enough to tell me (what I think is) the truth: the Bezel and Crown were YG plated on top of the original 18K WG.

So @R.W.T. and @crowncollection , great eyes, you guys were spot on! Well done!

For the price I paid for the watch (about US$1800), I'm indifferent between keeping it or returning it. Yes, I do realise the price is probably very good for a somewhat original piece, with box, and in good condition. But the seller's responses and behaviour have been disappointing to say the least, I mean, how hard is it to just tell me the truth (which isn't all that bad), instead of keep accusing me of breaking the watch and lying to him.

Anyway, it depends on the seller's attitude now, I'll let him slide if he shows even the slightest hint of politeness. (so far, not looking likely. His last email was half-full of CAPPED LETTERS - is it just me, or is that a little rude? The email content is not much better.)

Plus, I just don't want to keep a watch that reminds me of bad memories.

And @jban5 , I personally very much agree with your point #2. eBay can be a great place to buy! I just got a Rolex Oyster Date from the late 60's. For starters, I got it for an amazing price! The seller was reputable, extremely nice to talk to and deal with. The best part is the watch has been in the same family for 40+ years and I know its full history. But yes, I do agree there is a good amount of risk for the seller, you can never know what the buyer is like until the transaction is done and dusted.

Cheers,
Tony

[R.W.T.]

You know....that's a decent price for that watch with WG parts no box no papers.

Possibly the YG could be removed from the bezel...(jewelers can do these things)

Wide boy dial and hands are a plus in some circles.

I think the band is a legit folded jubilee from the period.

Maybe you can get with the seller and work something out and it doesn't have a bad taste.