Would you flip your fist Rolex? For a Patek

[Juantxo]

Originally Posted by Speed

Genuine question...interested to hear your perspective on "Smoke and Mirrors" as I'd like a Patek at some point.

Please elaborate.

Thank you!

I collected Patek Philippe watches for several years, from about 1998 to 2004. I visited the new factory at Plan-les-Ouates in 2002. I still keep a few of those watches, mostly simple three hands and calendar watches.

My breaking point with PP was the fist rendition of the annual calendar, the Ref. 5035. I owned three of them and none could keep time properly. I had bought them all new at an authorized dealer. At the factory, at an aside, I was told by the head watchmaker (he's still around but no longer with PP), that indeed the watch had been launched with significant flaws.

Dealing with Stern in NY was a trip to hell. At one point I sent a two weeks old watch, bought new from an authorized dealer, to be adjusted. The watch was running way fast. After many months the watch was returned with a case so badly over polished that you could not see the stamps on the back of the lugs. Thankfully I had taken and sent pictures of the watch before mailing it to Stern. After a bitter confrontation and getting the factory involved, they finally changed the case for a new one.

I can spend the rest of the day writing horror stories of PP. Their watches are madly over priced, the quality of their work is mostly shoddy and/or mediocre (like dirt in the engraved letters on the movement), their movements are pesky and unreliable, and their after-sale service is an exercise in arrogance, disdain and abuse.

Brands like PP appeal to the unaware or to those with more money than sense. I believe Lange builds a much better and honest watch, if you're interested in that type of watch. Or Journe. Even Breguet.

Just my very own and real personal experience.

[Speed]

Originally Posted by Juantxo

I collected Patek Philippe watches for several years, from about 1998 to 2004. I visited the new factory at Plan-les-Ouates in 2002. I still keep a few of those watches, mostly simple three hands and calendar watches.



My breaking point with PP was the fist rendition of the annual calendar, the Ref. 5035. I owned three of them and none could keep time properly. I had bought them all new at an authorized dealer. At the factory, at an aside, I was told by the head watchmaker (he's still around but no longer with PP), that indeed the watch had been launched with significant flaws.



Dealing with Stern in NY was a trip to hell. At one point I sent a two weeks old watch, bought new from an authorized dealer, to be adjusted. The watch was running way fast. After many months the watch was returned with a case so badly over polished that you could not see the stamps on the back of the lugs. Thankfully I had taken and sent pictures of the watch before mailing it to Stern. After a bitter confrontation and getting the factory involved, they finally changed the case for a new one.



I can spend the rest of the day writing horror stories of PP. Their watches are madly over priced, the quality of their work is mostly shoddy and/or mediocre (like dirt in the engraved letters on the movement), their movements are pesky and unreliable, and their after-sale service is an exercise in arrogance, disdain and abuse.



Brands like PP appeal to the unaware or to those with more money than sense. I believe Lange builds a much better and honest watch, if you're interested in that type of watch. Or Journe. Even Breguet.



Just my very own and real personal experience.

Wow. Just wow.

Thank you for your detailed response.

I realize (hope) not everyone has this experience...but you had several instances.

I love Lange. Especially the 1815 and Lange 1. FP Journe as well...Chronometre Bleu...

I suppose I should be thankful for my relatively trouble free Rolex models and great local RSC attitude and service!

[sirish19]

I wouldn't sell my first Rolex as it does represent a lot of memories. For me, my first Rolex was the first luxury watch that I had and wore it every day for years. Then I started buying other watches for variety and lost interest a bit in the Rolex even though they were mostly fashion watches and not nearly as good as the Rolex. I would break the Rolex out for special occasions.

Fast forward a few years when I really started getting into real quality watches, sold off all of the fashion watches (or gave to my son) and added a PP, AP, VC. Now, my Rolex is truly my weekend beater. I have found that my love for that watch has been rekindled simply by knowing that I have a Rolex as a "beater". I also find myself looking forward to the weekend so that I can wear that Rolex. I also like the fact that my Rolex has more than doubled in price since the time that I bought it and I am always thankful that I didn't sell it.

I love my Patek but as others have said, you don't want a Patek to be your ONLY watch. You really need at least one Rolex in the collection for the rough stuff and the SD is an awesome watch for that.

[Juantxo]

Originally Posted by Speed

Wow. Just wow.

Thank you for your detailed response.

I realize (hope) not everyone has this experience...but you had several instances.

I love Lange. Especially the 1815 and Lange 1. FP Journe as well...Chronometre Bleu...

I suppose I should be thankful for my relatively trouble free Rolex models and great local RSC attitude and service!

Rolex manufactures great solid watches and their after-sale service is top notch. You get what you pay for and a trouble-free, durable, precise, tough watch. I'd venture to say, they are an honest brand. I can't say the same of most of the others. Lange makes great watches as well as Omega. And their after-sale service is also fine, especially Lange service. Lange works with one of the very best watchmakers in the US.

[BawlaDK]

Originally Posted by Juantxo

I collected Patek Philippe watches for several years, from about 1998 to 2004. I visited the new factory at Plan-les-Ouates in 2002. I still keep a few of those watches, mostly simple three hands and calendar watches.

My breaking point with PP was the fist rendition of the annual calendar, the Ref. 5035. I owned three of them and none could keep time properly. I had bought them all new at an authorized dealer. At the factory, at an aside, I was told by the head watchmaker (he's still around but no longer with PP), that indeed the watch had been launched with significant flaws.

Dealing with Stern in NY was a trip to hell. At one point I sent a two weeks old watch, bought new from an authorized dealer, to be adjusted. The watch was running way fast. After many months the watch was returned with a case so badly over polished that you could not see the stamps on the back of the lugs. Thankfully I had taken and sent pictures of the watch before mailing it to Stern. After a bitter confrontation and getting the factory involved, they finally changed the case for a new one.

I can spend the rest of the day writing horror stories of PP. Their watches are madly over priced, the quality of their work is mostly shoddy and/or mediocre (like dirt in the engraved letters on the movement), their movements are pesky and unreliable, and their after-sale service is an exercise in arrogance, disdain and abuse.

Brands like PP appeal to the unaware or to those with more money than sense. I believe Lange builds a much better and honest watch, if you're interested in that type of watch. Or Journe. Even Breguet.

Just my very own and real personal experience.

....Well that certainly put things into perspective. If there is one thing I cannot deal with its bad aftermarket service.... I think the idea has been put to rest.

Thanks for all your input....Really a lot of great thoughts. The SD is staying for now.... I have the new JLC Master Control Chronograph and the Speedy Tuesday on order so its not like ill need a chronograph anytime soon ;-)

[blue16613]

Just chiming in to say that I agree 100% about Lange. Their watches and their customer service are both first rate. They are worth every penny you pay for them.

Also, my experience with PP is the same. The annual calendars have been disappointments. However, the 3940 was and remains a manufacturing marvel and an iconic timepiece.

[Boaters]

Originally Posted by Juantxo

I collected Patek Philippe watches for several years, from about 1998 to 2004. I visited the new factory at Plan-les-Ouates in 2002. I still keep a few of those watches, mostly simple three hands and calendar watches.

My breaking point with PP was the fist rendition of the annual calendar, the Ref. 5035. I owned three of them and none could keep time properly. I had bought them all new at an authorized dealer. At the factory, at an aside, I was told by the head watchmaker (he's still around but no longer with PP), that indeed the watch had been launched with significant flaws.

Dealing with Stern in NY was a trip to hell. At one point I sent a two weeks old watch, bought new from an authorized dealer, to be adjusted. The watch was running way fast. After many months the watch was returned with a case so badly over polished that you could not see the stamps on the back of the lugs. Thankfully I had taken and sent pictures of the watch before mailing it to Stern. After a bitter confrontation and getting the factory involved, they finally changed the case for a new one.

I can spend the rest of the day writing horror stories of PP. Their watches are madly over priced, the quality of their work is mostly shoddy and/or mediocre (like dirt in the engraved letters on the movement), their movements are pesky and unreliable, and their after-sale service is an exercise in arrogance, disdain and abuse.

Brands like PP appeal to the unaware or to those with more money than sense. I believe Lange builds a much better and honest watch, if you're interested in that type of watch. Or Journe. Even Breguet.

Just my very own and real personal experience.

Those are classy looking PP's Juan

[Le Chef]

I will wholeheartedly support the credibility of Lange as an incredibly well designed and hand made range of watches that really focuses on quality. My service experience through Alkis in NYC has been absolutely first class.

My issues with Patek are with servicing - it is frankly poor in terms of speed, though i've thankfully not had any issues with polishing etc. But there's also an attitude, a bit like Ferrari's, that even if you have the money you have to be "initiated" into an exclusive club where you only get access to the good stuff once you have proved yourself "worthy" though buying a number of lesser pieces. I lived with that class/club rubbish in England and see no reason to toe the line any longer. If you won't (as opposed to can't) sell me what I want now then I will go elsewhere.

[Etschell]

Originally Posted by Le Chef

I will wholeheartedly support the credibility of Lange as an incredibly well designed and hand made range of watches that really focuses on quality. My service experience through Alkis in NYC has been absolutely first class.

My issues with Patek are with servicing - it is frankly poor in terms of speed, though i've thankfully not had any issues with polishing etc. But there's also an attitude, a bit like Ferrari's, that even if you have the money you have to be "initiated" into an exclusive club where you only get access to the good stuff once you have proved yourself "worthy" though buying a number of lesser pieces. I lived with that class/club rubbish in England and see no reason to toe the line any longer. If you won't (as opposed to can't) sell me what I want now then I will go elsewhere.

ive heard similar things.