SCAM Story: Didn't think I'd ever fall for it...

[ocwatching]

wow..so sorry to hear about this ordeal...and I am glad you are trying to recover your money and get this scum..good luck

[gregmoeck]

Sounds like an intentional delay so the wire could not be reversed or withdraw traced

[Dartmouthbrian]

This really sucks and I'm sorry to hear it happened. I was once scammed on a macbook pro through eBay. This was before paypal provided buyer protection, so I ended up losing it all.

It really sucks that there are people out there who do this. You have his supposed name and you have his bank acct. that's at least a start... It just matters how far you want to go to try and recover.

[jumanji]

Wow this is terrible. I just posted a watch for sale and it makes me sick how a few scumbags can ruin it for the rest of us.

I'm no expert in this but can't the bank help? Aren't there laws/policies against using a bank for illegal activities? The account has to be tied to a real name right?

[joeychitwood]

Originally Posted by gregmoeck

Sounds like an intentional delay so the wire could not be reversed or withdraw traced

When I was scammed, this was one of the tactics the thief used. After my discussions with him, I only got my money back when he intentionally sent me the entire amount in a wire transfer.

[LuminousMaximus]

Originally Posted by joeychitwood

You certainly aren't alone in having been scammed. Back in 2009, I was scammed out of two Rolexes and $4,000 in cash by a guy in South Carolina. Law enforcement helped me out because of my past as a law enforcement officer, but otherwise I learned that scams involving less than $100,000 won't get investigated.

With the help of TRF members, I was provided with information on the scammer in such detail that I was able to convince him that it was in his best interest personally and professionally to bring the watches back to the Columbia Sheriff's office and refund my cash.

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=106512

Promises of informing his employer and relatives of his illegal activities, as well as credible suggestions that I and friends would pay a visit to his home to discuss my watches and cash led him to walk into the sheriff's office and turn over the watches to a detective, who mailed them back to me. The scammer also refunded my money in full.

I owe the TRF community to this day for their assistance. Law enforcement will likely not be able to help whatsoever, except to perhaps act as a go-between if you talk to a sympathetic officer. Getting your money back is possible. I would research the guy relentlessly. Learn his employer, family members, their addresses and employers, and any other personal information you can gather. It's amazing how much info can be found, especially if you have an attorney help you.

Discuss a personal visit to his employer or house to discuss the issue. Inform him that you don't like to travel alone, so you will bring companions. Let him know that keeping your cash is not in his best interests. If he has a job, many scammers will relent rather than lose their employment. Be nice but firm, and make sure he believes that you will indeed carry out your investigation and home/work visit as promised.

You are on your own as far as getting the money back. But you know enough about him to gather the needed information and act. There need be no threats or illegal acitivities, but always remember that you are dealing with a sociopathic criminal who likely will respond positively only out of fear of losing something he values.

This is exactly what you need to do. Call him a couple times a day, and tell him if he returns your money no charges will be pressed, if he does not comply jail time will be your only option...

[topgear]

I am sorry to hear about this.

I hope you will be able to recover your money. No one, regardless of how rich or poor, deserves to be scammed.

As for the scammer who essentially cursed themselves with all sorts of sob stories like death and illness, hopefully, their wish will come true.

I have no tolerance for scammers.

[dbhak22]

Originally Posted by gregmoeck

Sounds like an intentional delay so the wire could not be reversed or withdraw traced

Yes, I believe so as well.

[dbhak22]

Originally Posted by jumanji

Wow this is terrible. I just posted a watch for sale and it makes me sick how a few scumbags can ruin it for the rest of us.

I'm no expert in this but can't the bank help? Aren't there laws/policies against using a bank for illegal activities? The account has to be tied to a real name right?

Unfortunately not. I did file a claim/complaint/case with the bank so they have it "on file" and also went into a local branch to discuss what happened but for now, not much they can do.

[dbhak22]

Originally Posted by topgear

I am sorry to hear about this.

I hope you will be able to recover your money. No one, regardless of how rich or poor, deserves to be scammed.

As for the scammer who essentially cursed themselves with all sorts of sob stories like death and illness, hopefully, their wish will come true.

I have no tolerance for scammers.

[dbhak22]

This is a long shot...but any lawyers out there that would be willing to PM/email me about something related to this?

[m j b]

OP, sorry to hear of your troubles. Like you, I also buy and sell on these forums, and I can consider from both sides of the transaction how much faith in people counts for us. One guy that bought from me is an FBI agent, and he was pretty careful about checking me out, but still probably could have done more. As a fellow watch enthusiast, he may be able to help you find someone in the GA area that can help you. PM me if you want me to find his contact info. He's in CA.

For anyone else that read through the entire thread and wonders "what can I do to avoid this?" I'll make some additional suggestions that I did recently, buying from someone with very little feedback history:

- read all of his posts to see how long he's been around, if he does anything more than just sell
- Ask for a scan of his driver's license. It should match up with the banking info.
- Get his/her phone number and talk to them in person. That helps verify that the phone is real and often you can get a vibe off of a person that you may not from just emails.

[toxicavenger]

Someone mentioned this on another forum:
If the bank account is legitimately a BOA account, Georgia (as does most states AFAIK) requires a valid Social Security number to open the account. See the rules here: https://www.bankofamerica.com/deposits/ ... ccounts.go

[danbrew]

I'd like to offer a few comments and observations from this thread. First, sadly, the money is long gone. If it were me, I'd push on BoA to identify the name of the recipient of the receiving account. It may be a Michael Frank, but I guarantee you that he is not in Lilburn, GA, nor was he the last stop on the money train. You may have to sue Bank of America to obtain these records. While I am not an attorney, their defense is that they have an obligation to protect the identity of their customers. You'll likely have to have a judge compel BoA to provide the customer information and then you can take legal action against that person. He's likely a dupe. More on that in a second.

The whole Lilburn/Duluth, GA thing? A red herring. The routing number points to a local BoA branch in Henrico, VA 23228. http://www.usbanklocations.com/routi...061000052.html. Other than him telling you that he was in Georgia, you really have no evidence that the guy was in Ga. He used a mailing address of a large apartment community and probably provided the address of a BoA bank in Lilburn.

Routing numbers used to be assigned to regional bank locations - but with all of the buying and selling happening at banks, this could have been a small regional bank that BoA acquired. But that routing number points to Virginia, not Georgia. Good luck finding a Michael Frank through Google - there are a lot of them. But the good news is that you already know where the money made the first stop - 061000052/334052131018. This information is gold and is better than a social security number because that's where BoA put your money. They just aren't going to tell you anything about it until a judge tells them they have to talk.

Now, what about Michael Frank? It's he a nefarious watch thief? No, he's probably a moron. Here's how it works:

OPPORTUNITIES FOR A HOME BASED BUSINESS
Are you looking for opportunities to operate a home-based business and be your own boss? No experience required, call 001-234-1-555-1212 or email BeYourOwnBoss@GMAIL.com. Earn up to $20,000 per month

That's awesome! When you call or email, you'll learn that you will be an "Overseas Finance Contract Specialist" or the "Overseas Chief Financial Officer" of a very large, yet unspecified business who is selling products and services in the United States. Due to a loophole in the tax code (or Donald Trump's screwed up immigration policies), Nigerian Export Inc. cannot open bank accounts in the United States. Your job, they will explain, is to serve as the accounts receivable department. You will be paid on the dollar volume of the transactions you manage. Depending upon how gullible you are, they'll pitch this as you're helping to stick it to the man to avoid taxes or, perhaps, you're helping them to establish a presence in the United States while their legions of tax attorneys work with the notoriously difficult Department of State. Kindly provide your financial institution information to us (bank routing & account number) to us and watch the money roll in. To ensure that there is a high level of trust and that you cannot possible be damaged, we will permit you to simply deduct your salary from the incoming amounts. Take 10% and keep it for all the hard work you are doing for us. There may even be bonuses if you do a great job!

Chances are high that the funds you send to that BoA account landed in the hands of a moron. Doubtful that he prepared a wire transfer and continued the bulk of your funds from his account to an account in Nigeria. Or France. Or England. Or Ireland. Or wherever he was told the company was headquartered. They probably had him withdraw the cash from his account and send it via Western Union. Because once it enters the Western Union system, it can be picked up anywhere. Cleveland. Lagos. Saigon. London. Wherever. Bottom line, a link is broken and fraud investigators would find a cold trail at an office in Lagos. Where, btw, millions and millions of dollars end up every year.

So... you find your Michael Frank in Henrico, VA and you find out that he is, wait for it, a moron. The money is gone. Sure he probably has that 10% or so that he got to keep. And he may even have lots of 10% amounts. At this point (the point where he actually forwarded money) he's a goldmine. But eventually fraud investigators are going to track him down - not by his name, location, phone number, whatever. But by that account that mysteriously grows every day with money folks are sending into his account. And like a good little moron, he's breaking the link and sending them off to Western Union.

And what crime has he committed? Receiving stolen property? Nope. Some dude just wired him money in his account. He thought it was because he was the Chief Financial Officer of Longshore Ding Dong Company. Hell, it's says right there on his card, he's the Chief Financial Officer. Isn't this what Chief Financial Officer's do? Move money around. Perfectly legitimate job as far as he is concerned.

So... you may find Franks. But you'll find out that he's either a moron as that's the only explanation as to why he thinks moving money in and out of his account in such a fashion is legit.

As you've probably already discovered, the Feds aren't going to get involved unless it's epic level money laundering. Probably 8+ figures. That's $10,000,000+. The local cops don't want to get involved because they know they cash is long gone and the guy probably never lived in the jurisdiction where you think the crime occurred. The internet police are too busy telling me to stop looking at pictures of 20-yr old cheerleaders at frat parties, and even if all those guys were willing to help? You still need a judge to compel BoA to release the account holders information on 061000052/334052131018. And all you'll be able to do is sue 061000052/334052131018 in civil court. You can't really prove that he broke any laws. He thought he was the CFO. And even if you do go after him, you'll have to pay an attorney to file suit in multiple jurisdictions. Pretty soon your lawyer bills exceed the amount you've lost. You lost $5500. That's less than 16 hours (2 days) of a moderately decent attorney. It'll take him that long to understand what I've written in this post. But if vengeance is yours, that's pretty much the way you need to go.

It's not a coincidence (or at least not a happy one) that this guy has a common name. It's a lot harder to track down a David Smith or Michael Frank than it is a Rev Father August Goodluck III. Just know that Michael Frank isn't the guy. He's probably a real guy and probably served in his CFO role, but like a good little drone, he forwarded that cash right out of town immediately upon receipt. That's what the delays in the first few days post sale were all about.

Sorry to the OP, I know it sucks and I know (and you know) the money is gone. Hopefully these posts will create some awareness of these types of dealings. My personal philosophy is that I will not buy anything online or sight unseen unless I can afford to lose every dime of that money. I don't plan on that happening, of course, but I'm prepared for it. The good news is that you didn't send the rent money or the college fund money - you sent your disposable income for a luxury item. I'd much rather see a scam like this than a scam that takes every last cent from someone who needs every penny.

[danbrew]

I'd like to offer a few comments and observations from this thread. First, sadly, the money is long gone. If it were me, I'd push on BoA to identify the name of the recipient of the receiving account. It may be a Michael Frank, but I guarantee you that he is not in Lilburn, GA, nor was he the last stop on the money train. You may have to sue Bank of America to obtain these records. While I am not an attorney, their defense is that they have an obligation to protect the identity of their customers. You'll likely have to have a judge compel BoA to provide the customer information and then you can take legal action against that person. He's likely a dupe. More on that in a second.

The whole Lilburn/Duluth, GA thing? A red herring. The routing number points to a local BoA branch in Henrico, VA 23228. http://www.usbanklocations.com/routi...061000052.html. Other than him telling you that he was in Georgia, you really have no evidence that the guy was in Ga. He used a mailing address of a large apartment community and probably provided the address of a BoA bank in Lilburn.

Routing numbers used to be assigned to regional bank locations - but with all of the buying and selling happening at banks, this could have been a small regional bank that BoA acquired. But that routing number points to Virginia, not Georgia. Good luck finding a Michael Frank through Google - there are a lot of them. But the good news is that you already know where the money made the first stop - 061000052/334052131018. This information is gold and is better than a social security number because that's where BoA put your money. They just aren't going to tell you anything about it until a judge tells them they have to talk.

Now, what about Michael Frank? Is he a nefarious watch thief? No, he's probably a moron. Here's how it works:

OPPORTUNITIES FOR A HOME BASED BUSINESS
Are you looking for opportunities to operate a home-based business and be your own boss? No experience required, call 001-234-1-555-1212 or email BeYourOwnBoss@GMAIL.com. Earn up to $20,000 per month

That's awesome! When you call or email, you'll learn that you will be an "Overseas Finance Contract Specialist" or the "Overseas Chief Financial Officer" of a very large, yet unspecified business who are selling products and services in the United States. Due to a loophole in the tax code (or Donald Trump's screwed up immigration policies), Nigerian Export Ding Dong Company cannot open bank accounts in the United States. Your job, they will explain, is to serve as the accounts receivable department. You will be paid on the dollar volume of the transactions you manage. Depending upon how gullible you are, they'll pitch this as you're helping to stick it to the man to avoid taxes or, perhaps, you're helping them to establish a presence in the United States while their legions of tax attorneys work with the notoriously difficult Department of State. Kindly provide your financial institution information (bank routing & account number) to us and watch the money roll in. To ensure that there is a high level of trust and that you cannot possibly be damaged, we will permit you to simply deduct your salary from the incoming amounts. Take 10% and keep it for all the hard work you are doing for us. There may even be bonuses if you do a great job!

Chances are high that the funds you sent to that BoA account landed in the hands of a moron. Doubtful that he prepared a wire transfer and continued the bulk of your funds from his account to an account in Nigeria. Or France. Or England. Or Ireland. Or wherever he was told the company was headquartered. They probably had him withdraw the cash from his account and send it via Western Union. Because once it enters the Western Union system, it can be picked up anywhere. Cleveland. Lagos. Saigon. London. Wherever. Bottom line, a link is broken and fraud investigators would find a cold trail at an office in Lagos. Where, btw, millions and millions of dollars end up every year.

So... you find your Michael Frank in Henrico, VA and you find out that he is, wait for it, a moron. The money is gone. Sure he probably has that 10% or so that he got to keep. And he may even have lots of 10% amounts. At this point (the point where he actually forwarded money) he's a goldmine to the fraudster behind Nigerian Ding Dong Company. But eventually fraud investigators are going to track him down - not by his name, location, phone number, whatever. But by that account that mysteriously grows every day with money folks are sending into his account. And like a good little moron, he's breaking the link and sending them off to Western Union.

And what crime has he committed? Receiving stolen property? Nope. Some dude just wired him money in his account. He thought it was because he was the Chief Financial Officer of Longshore Ding Dong Company. Hell, it's says right there on his card, he's the Chief Financial Officer. Isn't this what Chief Financial Officer's do? Move money around. Perfectly legitimate job as far as he is concerned.

So... you may find Franks. But you'll find out that he's either a moron (as that's the only explanation as to why he thinks moving money in and out of his account in such a fashion is legit) or you'll find out that he's dead and a dumber relative is scamming his account.

As you've probably already discovered, the Feds aren't going to get involved unless it's epic level money laundering. Probably 8+ figures. That's $10,000,000+. The local cops don't want to get involved because they know they cash is long gone and the guy probably never lived in the jurisdiction where you think the crime occurred. The internet police are too busy telling me to stop looking at pictures of 20-yr old cheerleaders at frat parties, and even if all those guys were willing to help? You still need a judge to compel BoA to release the account holders information on 061000052/334052131018. And all you'll be able to do is sue 061000052/334052131018 in civil court. You can't really prove that he broke any laws. He thought he was the CFO. And even if you do go after him, you'll have to pay an attorney to file suit in multiple jurisdictions. Pretty soon your lawyer bills exceed the amount you've lost. You lost $5500. That's less than 16 hours (2 days) of a moderately decent attorney. It'll take him that long to understand what I've written in this post. But if vengeance is yours, that's pretty much the way you need to go.

It's not a coincidence (or at least not a happy one) that this guy has a common name. It's a lot harder to track down a David Smith or Michael Frank than it is a Rev Father August Goodluck III. Just know that Michael Frank isn't the guy. He's probably a real guy and probably served in his CFO role, but like a good little drone, he forwarded that cash right out of town immediately upon receipt. That's what the delays in the first few days post sale were all about.

Sorry to the OP, I know it sucks and I know (and you know) the money is gone. Hopefully these posts will create some awareness of these types of dealings. My personal philosophy is that I will not buy anything online or sight unseen unless I can afford to lose every dime of that money. I don't plan on that happening, of course, but I'm prepared for it. The good news is that you didn't send the rent money or the college fund money - you sent your disposable income for a luxury item. I'd much rather see a scam like this than a scam that takes every last cent from someone who needs every penny.

[dbhak22]

WOW. Thanks for the post! I know that took time to type up so much appreciated. Also, you made me chuckle a few times in there so thanks for that as well.

The first few days I was boiling but I've since gotten over it and like you said, it's just money and I am fortunate enough that it's not going to prevent either of my kids from going to college or put food on plates. But letting this moron get away with it is what drives me nuts and I wish I could do something about it. I'm sure this feeling will pass as well.

Another frustrating piece of this whole situation is that I reached out to the Admin/Mod at the watch forum where this scammer was conducting his "business" as they updated their "watch out for these people" list once I notified them of the scammer...excuse me, MORON. But I also noticed that when they did update the sticky/post, there was some information in there that I didn't provide nor was I aware of which led me to believe that there was at least one other person that notified them. I asked them if they can connect me with that person and/or let me know how they got that information...and they won't do it. I need a subpoena. I felt it would be common courtesy but apparently not and the whole communication and back/forth with them was a nightmare.

In any case, the saga continues with this. Thanks again for the thoughtful post and information.

Originally Posted by danbrew

I'd like to offer a few comments and observations from this thread. First, sadly, the money is long gone. If it were me, I'd push on BoA to identify the name of the recipient of the receiving account. It may be a Michael Frank, but I guarantee you that he is not in Lilburn, GA, nor was he the last stop on the money train. You may have to sue Bank of America to obtain these records. While I am not an attorney, their defense is that they have an obligation to protect the identity of their customers. You'll likely have to have a judge compel BoA to provide the customer information and then you can take legal action against that person. He's likely a dupe. More on that in a second.

The whole Lilburn/Duluth, GA thing? A red herring. The routing number points to a local BoA branch in Henrico, VA 23228. http://www.usbanklocations.com/routi...061000052.html. Other than him telling you that he was in Georgia, you really have no evidence that the guy was in Ga. He used a mailing address of a large apartment community and probably provided the address of a BoA bank in Lilburn.

Routing numbers used to be assigned to regional bank locations - but with all of the buying and selling happening at banks, this could have been a small regional bank that BoA acquired. But that routing number points to Virginia, not Georgia. Good luck finding a Michael Frank through Google - there are a lot of them. But the good news is that you already know where the money made the first stop - 061000052/334052131018. This information is gold and is better than a social security number because that's where BoA put your money. They just aren't going to tell you anything about it until a judge tells them they have to talk.

Now, what about Michael Frank? It's he a nefarious watch thief? No, he's probably a moron. Here's how it works:



That's awesome! When you call or email, you'll learn that you will be an "Overseas Finance Contract Specialist" or the "Overseas Chief Financial Officer" of a very large, yet unspecified business who is selling products and services in the United States. Due to a loophole in the tax code (or Donald Trump's screwed up immigration policies), Nigerian Export Inc. cannot open bank accounts in the United States. Your job, they will explain, is to serve as the accounts receivable department. You will be paid on the dollar volume of the transactions you manage. Depending upon how gullible you are, they'll pitch this as you're helping to stick it to the man to avoid taxes or, perhaps, you're helping them to establish a presence in the United States while their legions of tax attorneys work with the notoriously difficult Department of State. Kindly provide your financial institution information to us (bank routing & account number) to us and watch the money roll in. To ensure that there is a high level of trust and that you cannot possible be damaged, we will permit you to simply deduct your salary from the incoming amounts. Take 10% and keep it for all the hard work you are doing for us. There may even be bonuses if you do a great job!

Chances are high that the funds you send to that BoA account landed in the hands of a moron. Doubtful that he prepared a wire transfer and continued the bulk of your funds from his account to an account in Nigeria. Or France. Or England. Or Ireland. Or wherever he was told the company was headquartered. They probably had him withdraw the cash from his account and send it via Western Union. Because once it enters the Western Union system, it can be picked up anywhere. Cleveland. Lagos. Saigon. London. Wherever. Bottom line, a link is broken and fraud investigators would find a cold trail at an office in Lagos. Where, btw, millions and millions of dollars end up every year.

So... you find your Michael Frank in Henrico, VA and you find out that he is, wait for it, a moron. The money is gone. Sure he probably has that 10% or so that he got to keep. And he may even have lots of 10% amounts. At this point (the point where he actually forwarded money) he's a goldmine. But eventually fraud investigators are going to track him down - not by his name, location, phone number, whatever. But by that account that mysteriously grows every day with money folks are sending into his account. And like a good little moron, he's breaking the link and sending them off to Western Union.

And what crime has he committed? Receiving stolen property? Nope. Some dude just wired him money in his account. He thought it was because he was the Chief Financial Officer of Longshore Ding Dong Company. Hell, it's says right there on his card, he's the Chief Financial Officer. Isn't this what Chief Financial Officer's do? Move money around. Perfectly legitimate job as far as he is concerned.

So... you may find Franks. But you'll find out that he's either a moron as that's the only explanation as to why he thinks moving money in and out of his account in such a fashion is legit.

As you've probably already discovered, the Feds aren't going to get involved unless it's epic level money laundering. Probably 8+ figures. That's $10,000,000+. The local cops don't want to get involved because they know they cash is long gone and the guy probably never lived in the jurisdiction where you think the crime occurred. The internet police are too busy telling me to stop looking at pictures of 20-yr old cheerleaders at frat parties, and even if all those guys were willing to help? You still need a judge to compel BoA to release the account holders information on 061000052/334052131018. And all you'll be able to do is sue 061000052/334052131018 in civil court. You can't really prove that he broke any laws. He thought he was the CFO. And even if you do go after him, you'll have to pay an attorney to file suit in multiple jurisdictions. Pretty soon your lawyer bills exceed the amount you've lost. You lost $5500. That's less than 16 hours (2 days) of a moderately decent attorney. It'll take him that long to understand what I've written in this post. But if vengeance is yours, that's pretty much the way you need to go.

It's not a coincidence (or at least not a happy one) that this guy has a common name. It's a lot harder to track down a David Smith or Michael Frank than it is a Rev Father August Goodluck III. Just know that Michael Frank isn't the guy. He's probably a real guy and probably served in his CFO role, but like a good little drone, he forwarded that cash right out of town immediately upon receipt. That's what the delays in the first few days post sale were all about.

Sorry to the OP, I know it sucks and I know (and you know) the money is gone. Hopefully these posts will create some awareness of these types of dealings. My personal philosophy is that I will not buy anything online or sight unseen unless I can afford to lose every dime of that money. I don't plan on that happening, of course, but I'm prepared for it. The good news is that you didn't send the rent money or the college fund money - you sent your disposable income for a luxury item. I'd much rather see a scam like this than a scam that takes every last cent from someone who needs every penny.

[m j b]

Originally Posted by danbrew

I'd like to offer a few comments and observations from this thread.

Wow. Very informative and helpful, my thanks as well Dan.

I'll add to what I wrote earlier, for anyone contemplating buying a watch on the Internet, from anyone.

When I bought my last use Rolex, I was fortunate enough to have a friend in the city where the seller was, and he met him in person to verify the watch and the seller as a "real person". Then I had the seller send me a scan of his driver's license. As a coincidence, when I wired the money to his bank (Chase, I think) his name was common enough that Chase required us to verify his name (already specified) and date of birth and address to make sure that it was going to the correct account. I wouldn't have had all of that info if I hadn't already had his DL. Since I did, I was doubly sure that he was, in fact, the person receiving the funds.

So, if it had turned out to be a scam, I would have had a head start in going after him. Fortunately it was not, it was a real watch, and everything went well. As it does probably most of the time for us. But no seller should refuse to send a scan of their DL, not unless they've got something to hide. And it would probably scare off most scam artists, I would hope.

[blue16613]

Originally Posted by m j b

Wow. Very informative and helpful, my thanks as well Dan.

I'll add to what I wrote earlier, for anyone contemplating buying a watch on the Internet, from anyone.

When I bought my last use Rolex, I was fortunate enough to have a friend in the city where the seller was, and he met him in person to verify the watch and the seller as a "real person". Then I had the seller send me a scan of his driver's license. As a coincidence, when I wired the money to his bank (Chase, I think) his name was common enough that Chase required us to verify his name (already specified) and date of birth and address to make sure that it was going to the correct account. I wouldn't have had all of that info if I hadn't already had his DL. Since I did, I was doubly sure that he was, in fact, the person receiving the funds.

So, if it had turned out to be a scam, I would have had a head start in going after him. Fortunately it was not, it was a real watch, and everything went well. As it does probably most of the time for us. But no seller should refuse to send a scan of their DL, not unless they've got something to hide. And it would probably scare off most scam artists, I would hope.

Agree, a most informative and educational read.

Every now and then one encounters a real "pearl" here. Something worth tucking away and remembering. Asking for, and receiving, a scan of a valid DL is easy enough; so if the seller balks or refuses, that is good reason to walk away from the deal. I like it!

[SPARTAN2161]

This is exactly it. I see if everyday in my 9-5...

A little heartbreaking as the original poster definitely did a lot of leg work that usually sniffs out the crooks.

Originally Posted by danbrew

I'd like to offer a few comments and observations from this thread. First, sadly, the money is long gone. If it were me, I'd push on BoA to identify the name of the recipient of the receiving account. It may be a Michael Frank, but I guarantee you that he is not in Lilburn, GA, nor was he the last stop on the money train. You may have to sue Bank of America to obtain these records. While I am not an attorney, their defense is that they have an obligation to protect the identity of their customers. You'll likely have to have a judge compel BoA to provide the customer information and then you can take legal action against that person. He's likely a dupe. More on that in a second.

The whole Lilburn/Duluth, GA thing? A red herring. The routing number points to a local BoA branch in Henrico, VA 23228. http://www.usbanklocations.com/routi...061000052.html. Other than him telling you that he was in Georgia, you really have no evidence that the guy was in Ga. He used a mailing address of a large apartment community and probably provided the address of a BoA bank in Lilburn.

Routing numbers used to be assigned to regional bank locations - but with all of the buying and selling happening at banks, this could have been a small regional bank that BoA acquired. But that routing number points to Virginia, not Georgia. Good luck finding a Michael Frank through Google - there are a lot of them. But the good news is that you already know where the money made the first stop - 061000052/334052131018. This information is gold and is better than a social security number because that's where BoA put your money. They just aren't going to tell you anything about it until a judge tells them they have to talk.

Now, what about Michael Frank? It's he a nefarious watch thief? No, he's probably a moron. Here's how it works:



That's awesome! When you call or email, you'll learn that you will be an "Overseas Finance Contract Specialist" or the "Overseas Chief Financial Officer" of a very large, yet unspecified business who is selling products and services in the United States. Due to a loophole in the tax code (or Donald Trump's screwed up immigration policies), Nigerian Export Inc. cannot open bank accounts in the United States. Your job, they will explain, is to serve as the accounts receivable department. You will be paid on the dollar volume of the transactions you manage. Depending upon how gullible you are, they'll pitch this as you're helping to stick it to the man to avoid taxes or, perhaps, you're helping them to establish a presence in the United States while their legions of tax attorneys work with the notoriously difficult Department of State. Kindly provide your financial institution information to us (bank routing & account number) to us and watch the money roll in. To ensure that there is a high level of trust and that you cannot possible be damaged, we will permit you to simply deduct your salary from the incoming amounts. Take 10% and keep it for all the hard work you are doing for us. There may even be bonuses if you do a great job!

Chances are high that the funds you send to that BoA account landed in the hands of a moron. Doubtful that he prepared a wire transfer and continued the bulk of your funds from his account to an account in Nigeria. Or France. Or England. Or Ireland. Or wherever he was told the company was headquartered. They probably had him withdraw the cash from his account and send it via Western Union. Because once it enters the Western Union system, it can be picked up anywhere. Cleveland. Lagos. Saigon. London. Wherever. Bottom line, a link is broken and fraud investigators would find a cold trail at an office in Lagos. Where, btw, millions and millions of dollars end up every year.

So... you find your Michael Frank in Henrico, VA and you find out that he is, wait for it, a moron. The money is gone. Sure he probably has that 10% or so that he got to keep. And he may even have lots of 10% amounts. At this point (the point where he actually forwarded money) he's a goldmine. But eventually fraud investigators are going to track him down - not by his name, location, phone number, whatever. But by that account that mysteriously grows every day with money folks are sending into his account. And like a good little moron, he's breaking the link and sending them off to Western Union.

And what crime has he committed? Receiving stolen property? Nope. Some dude just wired him money in his account. He thought it was because he was the Chief Financial Officer of Longshore Ding Dong Company. Hell, it's says right there on his card, he's the Chief Financial Officer. Isn't this what Chief Financial Officer's do? Move money around. Perfectly legitimate job as far as he is concerned.

So... you may find Franks. But you'll find out that he's either a moron as that's the only explanation as to why he thinks moving money in and out of his account in such a fashion is legit.

As you've probably already discovered, the Feds aren't going to get involved unless it's epic level money laundering. Probably 8+ figures. That's $10,000,000+. The local cops don't want to get involved because they know they cash is long gone and the guy probably never lived in the jurisdiction where you think the crime occurred. The internet police are too busy telling me to stop looking at pictures of 20-yr old cheerleaders at frat parties, and even if all those guys were willing to help? You still need a judge to compel BoA to release the account holders information on 061000052/334052131018. And all you'll be able to do is sue 061000052/334052131018 in civil court. You can't really prove that he broke any laws. He thought he was the CFO. And even if you do go after him, you'll have to pay an attorney to file suit in multiple jurisdictions. Pretty soon your lawyer bills exceed the amount you've lost. You lost $5500. That's less than 16 hours (2 days) of a moderately decent attorney. It'll take him that long to understand what I've written in this post. But if vengeance is yours, that's pretty much the way you need to go.

It's not a coincidence (or at least not a happy one) that this guy has a common name. It's a lot harder to track down a David Smith or Michael Frank than it is a Rev Father August Goodluck III. Just know that Michael Frank isn't the guy. He's probably a real guy and probably served in his CFO role, but like a good little drone, he forwarded that cash right out of town immediately upon receipt. That's what the delays in the first few days post sale were all about.

Sorry to the OP, I know it sucks and I know (and you know) the money is gone. Hopefully these posts will create some awareness of these types of dealings. My personal philosophy is that I will not buy anything online or sight unseen unless I can afford to lose every dime of that money. I don't plan on that happening, of course, but I'm prepared for it. The good news is that you didn't send the rent money or the college fund money - you sent your disposable income for a luxury item. I'd much rather see a scam like this than a scam that takes every last cent from someone who needs every penny.

[psv]

Very educational.

[Bluside]

Great post, danbrew...

[joli160]

Sorry to hear Daniel, wish I could help

[GB-man]

Hell of a post danbrew

[dbhak22]

Looks like this a$$hole is still at it. A fellow member sent me the following thread and noticed the phone number is the same as the one I had in regards to the scammer:

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=532049

[orangeguy]

dbhak22,
Man, hearing this kills me. Sorry to hear. I was fortunate enough to deal with an honest and legit seller when I bought my 16710. Yes folks, I bought it from none other than dbhak22.

I continually try to give folks the benefit of the doubt when I deal with them, but cases like this just prove why I need to be skeptical. Sorry it happened to you.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[dbhak22]

Originally Posted by orangeguy

dbhak22,
Man, hearing this kills me. Sorry to hear. I was fortunate enough to deal with an honest and legit seller when I bought my 16710. Yes folks, I bought it from none other than dbhak22.

I continually try to give folks the benefit of the doubt when I deal with them, but cases like this just prove why I need to be skeptical. Sorry it happened to you.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks Martin. Yes, it's a harsh reality that exists...

[vman]

Sorry to hear about your loss.

There are many good sellers here who are not large volume dealers mentioned in this thread. When I buy/sell, I prefer to deal with local folks who either reside in the same state or who are willing to meet me face-to-face. If shipment is involved, the first step shall happen within minutes after receiving the funds, as it takes only a few seconds to generate a label and put it on the box that is already prepared for shipment by a prudent seller. Any delay is a major red flag for me.