Ebay's Response Springer regarding Tudor/Rolex Fraud

[tudorman8276]

....FYI.....Rolex STILL owns Tudor and CLOSELY monitors the production of the watch line.

....there was a thread awhile back where this was discussed and that CONFIRMED this info.

....hope this helps.

Stan.

[guydebordgame]

if the seller states that the dial is refinished than the buyer is fully aware that they are buying a watch that never before would have existed. agreed, it is a gray area of trademark infringement, (gray only because the rolex company owns both trademarks and marks tudors with rolex on the back as well) but thats not really anyone besides rolex's place to be concerned with. if ebay has a problem with the refinishing than they can boot the sales, but in the end its rolex who has the say. yet right now it is the buyers of these watches who have the say, and as long as they know what they are buying I dont think I am one to act sanctimonious and say what they should or shouldnt be able to buy.

[Terry Newton]

Originally Posted by guydebordgame

if the seller states that the dial is refinished than the buyer is fully aware that they are buying a watch that never before would have existed. agreed, it is a gray area of trademark infringement, (gray only because the rolex company owns both trademarks and marks tudors with rolex on the back as well) but thats not really anyone besides rolex's place to be concerned with. if ebay has a problem with the refinishing than they can boot the sales, but in the end its rolex who has the say. yet right now it is the buyers of these watches who have the say, and as long as they know what they are buying I dont think I am one to act sanctimonious and say what they should or shouldnt be able to buy.

And this may be fine for someone who knows exactly what they are buying. To put Rolex on a dial to artificially inflate the value of the watch is just plain wrong. There are many people who get snared by this deceptive marketing practice. What is not disclosed is that Rolex will not service the watch without replacing the non-original dial at great expense to the unsuspecting buyer. The seller has long ran to the bank laughing and the buyer is stuck.

I happen to believe we are our brother's keepers. As long as I am around I will report this crap.

Terry Newton

[springer]

Originally Posted by guydebordgame

if the seller states that the dial is refinished than the buyer is fully aware that they are buying a watch that never before would have existed. agreed, it is a gray area of trademark infringement, (gray only because the rolex company owns both trademarks and marks tudors with rolex on the back as well) but thats not really anyone besides rolex's place to be concerned with. if ebay has a problem with the refinishing than they can boot the sales, but in the end its rolex who has the say. yet right now it is the buyers of these watches who have the say, and as long as they know what they are buying I dont think I am one to act sanctimonious and say what they should or shouldnt be able to buy.

Rolex owns the Tudor company. What does placing their name - Rolex - on the case or Rolex crown on the crown have to do with the anything? This is done on the time by the corporate world.

READ THIS: TUDOR IS MADE AND OWNED BY ROLEX. IT IS NOT A ROLEX BRAND WATCH. WHAT DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND. HAVE YOU READ ANY OF THESE POSTS? WHY DON'T I JUST START SELLING COUNTERFEIT MONEY ON EBAY, AS LONG AS I CAN GET AWAY WITH IT AND EBAY DOESN'T MIND.

IN THE END, MY FINAL WORD IS WHAT I HAVE FOUND WORKS FOR ME: YOU CAN'T REASON WITH AN UNREASONABLE PERSON!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[marlin57]

Hi Terry, the movements in the Tudor watches are mostly ETA & FEF,based,parts are still readily available,any local watchmaker can service them.The restored vintage watches i sell ,most are serviced ,i have been around 5 years on ebay,with many happy customers.After viewing this forum,i will be refurbishing & customising these old Tudors ,with the Shield logo & Tudor on the dial,remembering that to a collector a refurbished will never be good enough. .This is the current layout used by Rolex on the Tudor Watches.I hope this will be good all round .Regards,Marlin57 Ebay Seller.

[springer]

Originally Posted by springer

Rolex owns the Tudor company. What does placing their name - Rolex - on the case or Rolex crown on the crown have to do with the anything? This is done on the time by the corporate world.

READ THIS: TUDOR IS MADE AND OWNED BY ROLEX. IT IS NOT A ROLEX BRAND WATCH. WHAT DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND. HAVE YOU READ ANY OF THESE POSTS? BY PLACING ROLEX ON THE DIAL, YOU ARE IMPLYING THE WATCH IS A ROLEX. DO YOU KNOW ANY WATCH MANUFACTURER, INCLUDING HEUER WHICH MADE WATCHES FOR MANY COMPANIES, THAT PLACED THE NAME OF THE PARENT COMPANY ON THE DIAL FOR A LIKE WATCH THAT WAS SOLD UNDER ANOTHER BRAND NAME?

WHY DON'T I JUST START SELLING COUNTERFEIT MONEY ON EBAY, AS LONG AS I CAN GET AWAY WITH IT AND EBAY DOESN'T MIND.

IN THE END, MY FINAL WORD IS WHAT I HAVE FOUND WORKS FOR ME: YOU CAN'T REASON WITH AN UNREASONABLE PERSON!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I made a couple of mistakes here, and the post should have read:

Rolex owns the Tudor company. Rolex markets and sells Tudor watches. What does placing their corporate name - Rolex - on the case or Rolex logo on the winding crown have to do with anything? Marking a product this way is done all the time by the corporate world. Using Rolex parts on a Tudor doesn't make it a Tudor, it is still a Tudor watch that happens to have some Rolex branded parts in it or marked by the Rolex crown.


READ THIS: TUDOR IS A WATCH COMPANY (OR BRAND OF WATCH) MADE AND OWNED BY ROLEX. IT IS NOT A ROLEX MODEL WATCH. WHAT DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND? HAVE YOU READ ANY OF THE POSTS IN THIS THREAD? AS FAR AS EBAY NOT SEEMING TO MIND ANY OF THIS, IT WOULD BE LIKE ME SELLING COUNTERFEIT MONEY ON EBAY BY MARKING IT WITH A COUNTERFEIT STAMP, AS LONG AS I CAN GET AWAY WITH IT AND EBAY DOESN'T MIND. I DO AGREE THAT ROLEX CORPORATE SHOULD TAKE A STAND ON THIS, BUT IT REALLY DOESN'T AFFECT THEM OR THEIR ABILITY TO SELL NEW WATCHES.

IN THE END, MY FINAL WORD IS WHAT I HAVE FOUND WORKS FOR ME: YOU CAN'T REASON WITH AN UNREASONABLE PERSON!!!!!!!!!!!!![/

[stevemulholland3]

I for one am glad that your future watches will proudly display the sheild and tudor!!!
I think you have made a spot on decision and I would buy one,even though it is refurbished-tudor is a brand on its own and should stay that way.
can you refurbish any dial?and have it look exactly as it did when it was new?
I have a couple or very old cartiers who desperately need a new life for their face.
cheers,
steve

[Terry Newton]

Originally Posted by marlin57

Hi Terry, the movements in the Tudor watches are mostly ETA & FEF,based,parts are still readily available,any local watchmaker can service them.The restored vintage watches i sell ,most are serviced ,i have been around 5 years on ebay,with many happy customers.After viewing this forum,i will be refurbishing & customising these old Tudors ,with the Shield logo & Tudor on the dial,remembering that to a collector a refurbished will never be good enough. .This is the current layout used by Rolex on the Tudor Watches.I hope this will be good all round .Regards,Marlin57 Ebay Seller.

Yes they can. The problem I still have is the desire to artificially inflate the value of the watch by including the Rolex name on it when it is not a Rolex. It is a Tudor watch that is manufactured by Tudor that is a company owned by Rolex. If the person sends it to Rolex they are in for a rude awakening. Of course a person can have their watch serviced by anybody they want. Unsuspecting buyers do not know any of these things and take all of this stuff on face value. That is called dishonesty by omission and misrepresentation. It is still dishonesty and, like I said, I will continue to report CRAP!

Terry Newton

[fikko]

[QUOTE=springer;716546]I made a couple of mistakes here, and the post should have read:

AS FAR AS EBAY NOT SEEMING TO MIND ANY OF THIS, IT WOULD BE LIKE ME SELLING COUNTERFEIT MONEY ON EBAY BY MARKING IT WITH A COUNTERFEIT STAMP, AS LONG AS I CAN GET AWAY WITH IT AND EBAY DOESN'T MIND.


Springer,
At ebay.ph, you can find a lot of people listing Rolex Replica, Tag AAA, Omega Made in Japan, etc. When I send question to them asking why selling fake products, they simply answer 'we have stated that it is replica, so we do not try to cheat anybody'.
You are right that some people are unreasonable.

[stevemulholland3]

[QUOTE=fikko;716899]

Originally Posted by springer

I made a couple of mistakes here, and the post should have read:

AS FAR AS EBAY NOT SEEMING TO MIND ANY OF THIS, IT WOULD BE LIKE ME SELLING COUNTERFEIT MONEY ON EBAY BY MARKING IT WITH A COUNTERFEIT STAMP, AS LONG AS I CAN GET AWAY WITH IT AND EBAY DOESN'T MIND.


Springer,
At ebay.ph, you can find a lot of people listing Rolex Replica, Tag AAA, Omega Made in Japan, etc. When I send question to them asking why selling fake products, they simply answer 'we have stated that it is replica, so we do not try to cheat anybody'.
You are right that some people are unreasonable.

thats really crappy that ebay ph lets that go on.

[marlin57]

Thanks Steve,for your understanding,up till seeing this forum,i didn't realise the Passion relating to the way the Dial on vintage 50 yo Tudor watches were done.So change is being made for all round good,i hope the few already done will not be a problem.The Dials are sent to a company in Australia ,not ROLEX,who have a Korean redialer who,was trained or used by Rolex,i'm told .A Pic is sent with the stripped or cleaned dial,plus specs in writeing.Although expertly done,2 out 5 of may differ from the pic or specs,language problem.If a dial is sent with visible details,you may get a close result,as color may differ,due to ageing ,appearance of the original & availabity of right tone.Regards,Marlin57 Ebay Seller.

[springer]

Originally Posted by marlin57

hi,there been an issue regarding my past listings on Ebay,a claim by members of this ROLEX forum that Rolex never put there brand on a Tudor watch & have convinced Ebay Trust & Safety that its a Trade Mark infringement,NOT Correct,please look at these current items,both Tudor & ROLEX clearly on the dial,Item number: 170265955090,Item number: 180293155193.I have inquired of the Trade Marks office in Australia,who could only suggest that a trademark lawyer would have to inquired of.Then if its down to lawyers who is right ?.It is clear from the early days ROLEX did want a clear association with the TUDOR brand,by in these watches haveing ROLEX on the dial as well as Tudor,signing casebacks of some with ROLEX,some with ROLEX on the inside cover of TUDOR watches,bracets & crowns as well.I believe that this had stopped after 1990.Please consider ,my watches are restored for Mr Average who wants a near new vintage restored watch,not the collector who wants a perfect original.ebay seller,Marlin57.

Hi Marlin57,

Regarding your post noted above, I looked at your watches and they look like genuine dials. But, in the spirit of my posts on this forum, your watches are not what we are referring. We are referring to the watches dialed as a Rolex brand watch and inferring that the model is a Tudor. Again, Rolex NEVER made a Tudor model watch. Tudor is a brand name (not a model of Rolex like the GMT, Datejust, Date, Submariner etc) manufactured by Rolex. Just like Tag and other companies that branded other watches under different names, they were not Tags.

The watches that I, and others, were concerned with were the Tudors being misrepresented as a Rolex watch - identified in these watches by the Rolex script located at the top of the watch (indicating watch brand), and Tudor identification at the lower portion of the watch dial which indicates the model.

As your dial indicates at the top, it is a Tudor watch, made by the Rolex Watch Co Limitied. The watch brand is not a "Rolex Watch Co Limitied" nor does the dial infer that at all.

And yes, Rolex wanted to be identified with the Tudor line, but Tudors had different serial numbers, movements, packaging and so on - as compared to the Rolex line of watches. It was all imarketing by Rolex to sell more watches - isn't that what business is all about!!!!

Good luck with those vintage Tudors!

John