Vintage Rolex Sourcing

[MorningTundra]

Originally Posted by Moggo

Seems like a bit of a minefield, not as straight forward as I anticipated.

Thanks for all the advice


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If it was straight forward there'd be no challenge and less satisfaction...

It can get complex. Especially the transitional and highly counterfeited models.

If you can afford to buy the best examples from the most trusted dealers, you're lucky. Those on tighter budgets need to do much more due diligence and education.


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[springer]

Originally Posted by MorningTundra

If it was straight forward there'd be no challenge and less satisfaction...

It can get complex. Especially the transitional and highly counterfeited models.

If you can afford to buy the best examples from the most trusted dealers, you're lucky. Those on tighter budgets need to do much more due diligence and education.


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Good info here except that I find some of the best watches come from private sellers and not always dealers. I've seem many watches for sale lately from dealers with cobbled together sets, misidentified or incorrect dials bracelets or other parts.

You'll find many fine watches for sale from private individuals - check there too.

[roh123]

Originally Posted by springer

Good info here except that I find some of the best watches come from private sellers and not always dealers. I've seem many watches for sale lately from dealers with cobbled together sets, misidentified or incorrect dials bracelets or other parts.

You'll find many fine watches for sale from private individuals - check there too.

This requires good contacts though. Very rarely great watches are listed for sale from private collectors.

Instagram is a great way to find nice watches. Dealers rarely list things on their websites nowdays as it is much faster an easier to just post them on IG. Great examples rarely last to be professionally photographed and listed on a website. If they do they usually cost a lot of premium.

[MorningTundra]

Originally Posted by springer

Good info here except that I find some of the best watches come from private sellers and not always dealers. I've seem many watches for sale lately from dealers with cobbled together sets, misidentified or incorrect dials bracelets or other parts.

You'll find many fine watches for sale from private individuals - check there too.

With respect mr Springer aren't you one such trusted dealer? Presumably you have access to people and sources unavailable to modest, plebeian collectors like myself?


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[springer]

Originally Posted by roh123

This requires good contacts though. Very rarely great watches are listed for sale from private collectors.

Instagram is a great way to find nice watches. Dealers rarely list things on their websites nowdays as it is much faster an easier to just post them on IG. Great examples rarely last to be professionally photographed and listed on a website. If they do they usually cost a lot of premium.

Regarding your comment...Very rarely great watches are listed for sale from private collectors., I'd have to say that you are incorrect based on my buying experiences and others that I know who collect. I've owned many great watches and very few were purchased from dealers. I'm sure other collectors are very capable of finding great watches from private sellers as many of us have done.

I know you love to disagree with me, and frankly, I'm shocked when you don't!!! But again, there are plenty of private sources for great watches contrary to what Roh123 believes - whether here, there, other watch sites or on Instagram. I see them offered for sale often. My point being, buyers have other sources when searching for a great example to add to their collection besides a dealer.

[springer]

Originally Posted by MorningTundra

With respect mr Springer aren't you one such trusted dealer? Presumably you have access to people and sources unavailable to modest, plebeian collectors like myself?


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You have me confused. Sorry. I have a day job!!! I know many in the vintage community, mostly collectors, since, after 40 years of collecting, one builds up a portfolio of fellow collectors/contacts and friends.

[MorningTundra]

Originally Posted by springer

You have me confused. Sorry. I have a day job!!! I know many in the vintage community, mostly collectors, since, after 40 years of collecting, one builds up a portfolio of fellow collectors/contacts and friends.

My sincere apologies. A case of mistaken identity. No offense intended.


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[roh123]

Originally Posted by springer

Regarding your comment...Very rarely great watches are listed for sale from private collectors., I'd have to say that you are incorrect based on my buying experiences and others that I know who collect. I've owned many great watches and very few were purchased from dealers. I'm sure other collectors are very capable of finding great watches from private sellers as many of us have done.

I know you love to disagree with me, and frankly, I'm shocked when you don't!!! But again, there are plenty of private sources for great watches contrary to what Roh123 believes - whether here, there, other watch sites or on Instagram. I see them offered for sale often. My point being, buyers have other sources when searching for a great example to add to their collection besides a dealer.

I'm just saying it is rare when they are listed publicly. If you know collectors it is of course different but to be honest, I doubt the average Joe does that. Or we have a very different view on what a great watch is.

I'm not argueing with you. My experience is just that very few top pieces get posted here, on vrf or on normal sales boards these days. Great watches rarely need to be advertised and if sold privately they sell within collectors that know eachother and through informal channels. I am sure that you with your experience find great watches easier but for someone without that network it is much harder. Just comparing today with 5-10 years ago it is way harder to find great watches as they are rare. Collectors rarely sell and when they do they know how valuable their watch is.

Occasionally you run in to great pieces at pawn shops, local listings etc. But how often will it be exactly what you are looking for? I've been hunting a perfect late 5513 gilt for years and I am yet to find one with a perfect glossy dial, original hands and an untouched mint case. It is just hard to find.

Feel free to point in a good direction if you still think different. I am sure it would be helpful for those who are looking to buy a great watch.

[Moggo]

I wandered over here from the newer Rolex section thinking finding a nice watch would be straightforward, did I get that wrong! :)

I am not about to get fleeced and a cobbled together watch is not for me. I don't mind paying a fair price but I guess I'm not into being taken advantage of.

If anyone looking in has something of interest please PM me.

I hugely appreciate everyone who has contributed to this thread


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[MorningTundra]

Sounds like you're throwing in the towel?


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[Moggo]

Haha, not just yet, I may scrap the precise year of 1975 though and just get something nice and original that will hold value.

The matte dial 16800 look quite nice.


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[roh123]

For some reason watches around 1974/75 are rare finds. Probably due to the serial charts where Rolex has a break at 4.4 for service cases. I would personally disregard the birthyear thinking and try to get the best sub possible for my budget. Depending on where you are at money wise I would try to find a mint late red sub which definetely could have been sold 1975 or find a perfect white 1680 that serial charts probably place slightly later than -75. Or even better; find the best possible 5513 with a serial between 3-5m.

[enginerd]

Originally Posted by Moggo

The matte dial 16800 look quite nice.

They are quite nice, and the secret is out on those. I can't touch a good matte 16800 for double what I paid 2-3 years ago!

[Waddycakes]

I tried briefly to find a '75 sub as well, it's odd that you don't see them often. Ended up with a '78 1680 that I'm very happy with.

In my admittedly limited experience, you can find nicer, original/period correct examples from individual enthusiasts (at slightly better prices) on here vs. sellers that are doing a lot of flipping. Obviously just a generalization, as you can find nice watches throughout this forum and elsewhere. Just spend a bit of time learning the language of the listings, if something is omitted it's probably intentional. I'm talking lines like "original dial in excellent condition, hands match nicely". If the seller knows the watch is all original, unpolished, etc. they're going to let you know up front, and price that in.


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[Toronto Soup King]

If you don't know the ins and outs of vintage and aren't motivated to spend quite a lot of time learning, I'd just ask Jacek to keep his eye out for a good example and then buy it from him. Duties...these days customs is on the lookout, the last couple of watches I bought from overseas were nabbed for full duty. If you try and cheat them and get caught you'll pay a fine at least, my advice is just to accept the duty.

I've bought several from Jacek and would again if I see something I like on his site. The man is honest. If you do business with an honest man, you'll be fine, is my experience. Best of luck

[nigelUK]

Originally Posted by Moggo

Haha, not just yet, I may scrap the precise year of 1975 though and just get something nice and original that will hold value.

The matte dial 16800 look quite nice.


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Your going down exactly the same road I've been down 3 or 4 times . . . I'm still going down it currently but very close to throwing the towel in . . again.

Trouble is, each time I go down this road again there is less decent pieces available at twice the cost . . .

I spend way to much time & every day looking at all the 'recognised' good sites and also all the spurious ones looking for that 'one' at the right price with thick case etc etc . . it's rare pickings in the UK, especially at the moment.

I too have 'resigned' myself to a 16800 matte or a 5513 gloss but even that is beyond difficult

... and then I think FFS get yourself an ceramic LV or blnr with 5 year warranty & zero risk!

[Moggo]

Originally Posted by nigelUK

Your going down exactly the same road I've been down 3 or 4 times . . . I'm still going down it currently but very close to throwing the towel in . . again.



Trouble is, each time I go down this road again there is less decent pieces available at twice the cost . . .



I spend way to much time & every day looking at all the 'recognised' good sites and also all the spurious ones looking for that 'one' at the right price with thick case etc etc . . it's rare pickings in the UK, especially at the moment.



I too have 'resigned' myself to a 16800 matte or a 5513 gloss but even that is beyond difficult



... and then I think FFS get yourself an ceramic LV or blnr with 5 year warranty & zero risk!

This is very true, I think the lack of availability of new is driving us down this road.

I love the look of the vintage subs but don't know enough to know what's the right condition and fair price.

Are the hands newer, is the bezel changed etc etc

As I said earlier it's a minefield :)


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[MorningTundra]

Originally Posted by Moggo

This is very true, I think the lack of availability of new is driving us down this road.

I love the look of the vintage subs but don't know enough to know what's the right condition and fair price.

Are the hands newer, is the bezel changed etc etc

As I said earlier it's a minefield :)


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The term "holy grail" comes to mind. I gave up looking for it and settled for nice enough.

Ive had much pleasure owning one that's not too minty precious to wear without worry.




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[Sjmoore11]

Originally Posted by roh123

For some reason watches around 1974/75 are rare finds. Probably due to the serial charts where Rolex has a break at 4.4 for service cases. I would personally disregard the birthyear thinking and try to get the best sub possible for my budget. Depending on where you are at money wise I would try to find a mint late red sub which definetely could have been sold 1975 or find a perfect white 1680 that serial charts probably place slightly later than -75. Or even better; find the best possible 5513 with a serial between 3-5m.

Yeah, this has been my experience too. I've hunted a bit for a 1975 birth year sport model but ultimately gave up and grabbed a nice 1680 from ~ 1978. Not sure why 1975 models seem so scarce. Agree with you that the service cases at 4.4 M probably screw up the charts and I also wonder whether production may have been a bit low then in the heart of the quartz crisis.

Good luck OP...plenty of great vintage options out there even if it's not exactly your birth year!

[MorningTundra]

Originally Posted by Sjmoore11

... also wonder whether production may have been a bit low then in the heart of the quartz crisis.

For those too young to remember, there was a serious global recession through the 70s too.



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[roh123]

Originally Posted by Sjmoore11

Yeah, this has been my experience too. I've hunted a bit for a 1975 birth year sport model but ultimately gave up and grabbed a nice 1680 from ~ 1978. Not sure why 1975 models seem so scarce. Agree with you that the service cases at 4.4 M probably screw up the charts and I also wonder whether production may have been a bit low then in the heart of the quartz crisis.

Good luck OP...plenty of great vintage options out there even if it's not exactly your birth year!

Yeah. Not impossible production was lower as well considering that.

[colpol]

I'd forget 1975 & go for best piece you can get no matter the year

Probably best as others have said to reach out to some of the trusted dealers. I'd also get their Instagram account names as have found that a lot of stuff shows up there before it hits their sites

I've bought a 1680 & a 1665 over past few years. Both came from the US. Gave up on sourcing in U.K.

[rootbeer7]

Originally Posted by colpol

I'd forget 1975 & go for best piece you can get no matter the year

Probably best as others have said to reach out to some of the trusted dealers. I'd also get their Instagram account names as have found that a lot of stuff shows up there before it hits their sites

I've bought a 1680 & a 1665 over past few years. Both came from the US. Gave up on sourcing in U.K.

They are out there ;)