BIG Tudor Black Bay Bronze problem

[KrismanX]

This one looks pretty messed up....And I really liked the bronze approach! This definitely looks like it had more than a salt water attack though. Not sure I'd dive with it based on what I'm seeing here. Then again, I don't think desk diving would cause this...And I'm an AVID desk diver.

[vipereaper30]

Originally Posted by KrismanX

[IMG]
This one looks pretty messed up....And I really liked the bronze approach! This definitely looks like it had more than a salt water attack though. Not sure I'd dive with it based on what I'm seeing here.

Ohhhh man that's bad! Okay, maybe there is an issue here this one looks like it went through a house fire.

Still I can't help but wonder if these are examples of botched forced patina attempts.

[josephvman]

As always Megan posts the good stuff! I think you're spot-on, but the one that looks like it has been dipped in acid must be the result of some forced patina or sitting in salt water for an extended period. Mine still looks pretty much like new, but I've noticed a couple of dark spots on the case, probably just a reaction to skin oil. Now that I think about it, I don't think I've ever washed mine or even got it wet.

Originally Posted by meganfox17

That sounds like Galvanic Corrosion occuring at the contact point between 2 metals or metal alloys with salt water acting as the electrolyte medium. The holes mentioned by the OP on the bezel insert of the Tudor Bronze are actually called pits.

The greater the difference in oxidation potential between the 2 metals in contact , the more serius is the Galvanic Corrosion. The less nobel or active Aluminium insert of the bezel (acting as the anode) will be eaten away slowly , the more nobel bronze will not corrode and remains inactive (Acting as the cathode)

p/s : I grew up near a tradisional fishing village where fishing boats docking at the jetty always show galvanic corrosions at points of contact between nuts and bolts screwed tightly onto metal plates used to strengthen the wooden boats

[77T]

It appears the insert is acting as an anode in conjunction with the bronze - much like zinc is used on metal boat hulls. If Tudor fitted the bezels with a non-reactive insert then this would not occur.


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[sutats]

That's pretty startling. If what we're seeing is truly the effect of galvanic corrosion from seawater then it makes one wonder what R&D Tudor conducted considering it's a 200m dive watch.

[bdex75]

Heard of/seen this a few times, on this site and other places. Tudor has an issue here. Wonder if they will respond like Rolex did with the cyclops magnification issue??




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[JP Chestnut]

Originally Posted by sager

Wow. I expected better QC.

It's not QC. It's piss poor engineering from a near fashion brand. I've seen the same galvanic corrosion on the stupid useless colored crown spacer on the BB.

[Laszlo]

Didn't we see this happening to some first gen BBs? Remember seeing a post three or so years ago. Red bezel... suspected salt.

[James444]

Originally Posted by josephvman

As always Megan posts the good stuff! I think you're spot-on, but the one that looks like it has been dipped in acid must be the result of some forced patina or sitting in salt water for an extended period. Mine still looks pretty much like new, but I've noticed a couple of dark spots on the case, probably just a reaction to skin oil. Now that I think about it, I don't think I've ever washed mine or even got it wet.

There is a crack in the dial too. Yup skin oil do leave dark spot on the case mine also got dark spot due to skin oil btw I think Tudor should discontinue this model first

[Cryten]

I remember seeing this from a member here a while ago, and it's a little concerning that it's become such a problem. I suspect the only reason it isn't more wide spread is not many owners even get their dive watches wet these days, let alone get in the sea with them.

[southcarolina1801]

Originally Posted by JP Chestnut

It's not QC. It's piss poor engineering from a near fashion brand. I've seen the same galvanic corrosion on the stupid useless colored crown spacer on the BB.

Shots fired!

[Etschell]

The problem comes from not cleaning the watch. Old expat asked why gold and ss inserts dont have this happen. Because people dont leave salt on it for months or years.

Easy fix is again change insert to bronze. Requires no redesign. Otherwise a spacer is needed.

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[Colin10101]

Can someone explain why this does not occur on a Rolex Subamriner with an aluminum bezel insert and stainless steel oyster case?

[johnnyjazz]

Originally Posted by Etschell

The problem comes from not cleaning the watch. Old expat asked why gold and ss inserts dont have this happen. Because people dont leave salt on it for months or years.

Easy fix is again change insert to bronze. Requires no redesign. Otherwise a spacer is needed.

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Bronze insert would be obvious answer, but how would you apply the painted numerals. Paint won,t key onto bronze, probably need to plate and that would be a big problem with 2 colours.

[xIZeitgeistIx]

Kudos to meganfox17, I also think this is the underlying root cause.
I do not use my Bronze as a daily beater, but have it on each time I visit the beach and go diving. I am not really careful, so I do not rinse it after salt contact.
So far: no issues. Maybe there was a bad lot of inlays used in the affected watches, otherwise I see the risk that ALL BBB could end up like this (sooner or later).

[unknown]

Imo the best solution giving the watch and update
Stop making this bezel
And make the same watch with a plain solid bronze bezel without inlay
Like the heritage black bay date

[josephvman]

A "near fashion brand", are you serious! I've read some stupid things posted on TRF, but you've just cracked the top ten brother! Cheers to that!

Originally Posted by JP Chestnut

It's not QC. It's piss poor engineering from a near fashion brand. I've seen the same galvanic corrosion on the stupid useless colored crown spacer on the BB.

[JP Chestnut]

Yeah. They made a bronze watch that eats itself. Why? Because bronze is in fashion (or was). Sorry if I insulted your hardcore tool diver. Feel free to ignore my future posts, as I'll be sure to do to you.

[Etschell]

Originally Posted by JP Chestnut

Yeah. They made a bronze watch that eats itself. Why? Because bronze is in fashion (or was). Sorry if I insulted your hardcore tool diver. Feel free to ignore my future posts, as I'll be sure to do to you.

you feel the same way about panerai right? their bronze watch is like $30k.

like i said before, tudor needs to make the bezel insert bronze to fix the issue.

[Etschell]

Originally Posted by johnnyjazz

Bronze insert would be obvious answer, but how would you apply the painted numerals. Paint won,t key onto bronze, probably need to plate and that would be a big problem with 2 colours.

ever seen the panerai 382?

[Luap1976]

Originally Posted by Colin10101

Can someone explain why this does not occur on a Rolex Subamriner with an aluminum bezel insert and stainless steel oyster case?

This is the question i posted yesterday. The answer is the bronze metal causes reactions to the aluminum in salt water and eats into the metal

[Buellrider]

Originally Posted by Luap1976

This is the question i posted yesterday. The answer is the bronze metal causes reactions to the aluminum in salt water and eats into the metal

Stainless is more noble than bronze. Theoretically the same should be happening with stainless and aluminum, possibly even more. But yet we rarely hear about galvanic corrosion with other stainless divers with aluminum bits.

Also, the issue that was brought up earlier about the first gen BB's was regarding the crown tube collar corroding and was with the stainless Black Bay. The aluminum is the common denominator.

As I said earlier, they should have used ceramic instead.

[JP Chestnut]

Originally Posted by Etschell

you feel the same way about panerai right? their bronze watch is like $30k.

like i said before, tudor needs to make the bezel insert bronze to fix the issue.

Don't even get me started on panerai, but at least they were early in on the fad - Tudor got in late and still didn't bother to do it in a functional way.

[Colin10101]

Originally Posted by Buellrider

Stainless is more noble than bronze. Theoretically the same should be happening with stainless and aluminum, possibly even more. But yet we rarely hear about galvanic corrosion with other stainless divers with aluminum bits.

Also, the issue that was brought up earlier about the first gen BB's was regarding the crown tube collar corroding and was with the stainless Black Bay. The aluminum is the common denominator.

As I said earlier, they should have used ceramic instead.

I think that's what's tripping me up... if it has to do with bronze being noble, then stainless steel (being more noble) should be even worse for this, and yet we don't see it happening. Just a bit confused is all.

[EDL7]

Depending on the alloy...bronze has about 80% copper in there mixed w/tin 20%..
Copper rusts like nobody's business...

[Buellrider]

Originally Posted by Colin10101

I think that's what's tripping me up... if it has to do with bronze being noble, then stainless steel (being more noble) should be even worse for this, and yet we don't see it happening. Just a bit confused is all.

Yeah, I honestly don't get it either.

Originally Posted by EDL7

Depending on the alloy...bronze has about 80% copper in there mixed w/tin 20%..
Copper rusts like nobody's business...

Tudor uses an aluminum bronze alloy. Not sure how much copper content there is though. Regardless, it's not that the mid case is rusting...the aluminum insert is pitting from the corrosion.

[tomilg]

It is the same reason you attach Zinc Anodes to the underside of a boat that is used or moored in a saltwater environment...because of Galvanic Corrosion, the saltwater will eat away the Zinc instead of your pricey bronze propeller(s).........In this case, instead of the Zinc being slowly eaten away, it the bezel which is acting as the sacrificial lamb.

[Largoshark]

C'mon guys...this was obviously intentional. Tudor wanted to go the extra mile in giving it that very worn-in, patinaed look.

In all seriousness though, this is pretty inexcusable and should be addressed ASAP.

[willski]

Originally Posted by Colin10101

I think that's what's tripping me up... if it has to do with bronze being noble, then stainless steel (being more noble) should be even worse for this, and yet we don't see it happening. Just a bit confused is all.

It's the other way around I believe. Bronze is more active than SS.


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[eco8gator]

In regards to metal...

You have what appears to be an aluminum insert in very close contact to bronze metal.

All it takes is one scratch on the insert to allow for the spot corrosion seen.

Bronzes are more cathodic where aluminum is more anodic. The more anodic metal will break down before the more cathodic metal...

This would happen on a SST watch also...I have seen pics of the red BB with corroded aluminum bits.

Using dissembler metals on such an expensive watch seems like there is a break down in QC because a company like Rolex knows that the integrity of the anodizing needs to be 100% intact on the aluminum parts in order to mitigate corrosion. But to be fair it only take one tiny little scratch to really screw things up...they need to get rid of aluminum from their assemblies...