UK surgeon pays a high price for this autograph...

[artschool]

whilst what he did was wrong, it would be a shame for society to lose out on his skills.

[Abdullah71601]

Originally Posted by artschool

whilst what he did was wrong, it would be a shame for society to lose out on his skills.

Prisons need good surgeons too.

[hsm]

I suppose you have to ask, what else could there have been?

[andromeda160]

personally I'd get my liver initialed, I don't really see the problem unless it caused actual harm to the patient which it didn't appear to do. all in all, probably not a smart decision, but I wouldn't call it criminal

[ejvette]

Wow !

[breitlings]

Originally Posted by andromeda160

personally I'd get my liver initialed, I don't really see the problem unless it caused actual harm to the patient which it didn't appear to do. all in all, probably not a smart decision, but I wouldn't call it criminal

It did cause harm. That is how they found out.

[breitlings]

Originally Posted by Tony64

Navy pilots shouldn't be so quick to judge...

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...lus/874808001/

That isn't on a person... The west commonly uses the basis of Locke (iirc) whereas the body is personal property.

[mastermixer]

Originally Posted by breitlings

It did cause harm. That is how they found out.

It looks like it didn't cause harm, it was just noticed by someone else on a follow-up procedure.

I don't know how I would feel if I found out it happened to me, but it is concerning to hear a doctor doing such a juvenile thing to a patient.

[Tony64]

Originally Posted by Tony64

Navy pilots shouldn't be so quick to judge...

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...lus/874808001/

Originally Posted by breitlings

That isn't on a person... The west commonly uses the basis of Locke (iirc) whereas the body is personal property.

It was a simple attempt at humor, but obviously not a good one.

Considered seriously however, I suppose one could have reasonable concern that such an unnecessary rendering of a sky phallus could risk endangerment of the flight crew, damage to property and bystanders on the ground, as well as damage to government (taxpayer funded) property, if something untoward were to happen during the performance of said stunt.

But honestly, I just thought it was funny, and from what I can tell Paul has pretty thick skin. Apologies to Paul and any current or former Navy pilots who may have taken offense.

[Tony64]

Originally Posted by breitlings

It did cause harm. That is how they found out.

I missed that part of the story, but clearly that would be a very important detail to consider.

What specifically was the harm that resulted?

[Tony64]

Originally Posted by SDRider

I disagree. I think the judiciary and medical governing body needed to crack down hard on this, if for no other reason than to prevent it happening again in the future. Doing nothing or just giving a slap on the wrist sets a dangerous precedent for others who might try something similar.

According to the report, he has admitted guilt and resigned from his position. He will be sentenced in January.

The UK now has one less transplant surgeon.

Justice is served.

Everybody happy?

[Dr.Brian]

Originally Posted by mastermixer

It looks like it didn't cause harm, it was just noticed by someone else on a follow-up procedure.

I don't know how I would feel if I found out it happened to me, but it is concerning to hear a doctor doing such a juvenile thing to a patient.

It’s a burn. It harmed the tissue. Not to a degree where the patient would be affected, but it’s there.
This guy would get the hard firing at my hospital. No question.
It makes the facility and the profession look bad.
There’s always another surgeon who wants a better job.

[hsm]

the more you think about it, the worse it sounds

[Star Ferry]

Originally Posted by bayerische

3) In Finland.

[Grnvette65]

Originally Posted by handsfull

Wrong on SO many levels. The only thing worse than reading his actions are reading the responses that defend it. He’s special because he can perform a transplant? WTF- LOL

PLENTY of surgeons who can do what hes doing without the MASSIVE ego involved. Sickens me.

I've been watching this thread and I agree w people on both sides, but this statement... are you kidding. I'm sure there are a lot of surgeons that can do this but there are only a small percentage who do it well w good long term out come. From what I gather it's an 18-26 hour operation. I really think these surgeons are that easily replaced

[Tony64]

The more I think about this, and the more I've had time to read and process many of the comments here (especially those from the physicians),
I can't help but feel profound dissapointment and disgust for the poor judgment this UK surgeon exhibited. That so many of you have expressed such strong feelings speaks volumes for the degree of emotional harm I hadn't previously considered.

Yet I still can't make the leap to considering it a criminal act. That is, until I tried taking a somewhat BC inspired slant to the situation...

The transplanted organ was harvested from a dead person and therefore the burning of initials could be considered desecration of the dead, a criminal offense, even though the organ itself was alive. Of course, that requires that the initials were placed prior to implant into the recipient. Once implanted it then becomes the property of the living patient, and presumably the law would no longer apply.

Not sure if UK barristers would agree, but a criminal conviction might help appease those still looking for their pound of flesh.

Thank you again for those who offered their views respectfully and with compassion; I want you to know it has made a significant impact on my own.

[Tony64]

Originally Posted by Grnvette65

I've been watching this thread and I agree w people on both sides, but this statement... are you kidding. I'm sure there are a lot of surgeons that can do this but there are only a small percentage who do it well w good long term out come. From what I gather it's an 18-26 hour operation. I really DON'T think these surgeons are that easily replaced

Thank you Grnvette65, I feel the same, and took the liberty to edit what I'm sure you meant to say. The comment you referenced was one of the less helpful IMO, and I found it somewhat inflammatory.

[Abdullah71601]

Originally Posted by Tony64

The more I think about this, and the more I've had time to read and process many of the comments here (especially those from the physicians),
I can't help but feel profound dissapointment and disgust for the poor judgment this UK surgeon exhibited. That so many of you have expressed such strong feelings speaks volumes for the degree of emotional harm I hadn't previously considered.

Yet I still can't make the leap to considering it a criminal act. That is, until I tried taking a somewhat BC inspired slant to the situation...

The transplanted organ was harvested from a dead person and therefore the burning of initials could be considered desecration of the dead, a criminal offense, even though the organ itself was alive. Of course, that requires that the initials were placed prior to implant into the recipient. Once implanted it then becomes the property of the living patient, and presumably the law would no longer apply.

Not sure if UK barristers would agree, but a criminal conviction might help appease those still looking for their pound of flesh.

Thank you again for those who offered their views respectfully and with compassion; I want you to know it has made a significant impact on my own.

If he branded the patient (like a slave) would you still be so retiscent to call it criminal? I think criminal action applies the appropriate level of punishment to a man that may consider a human nothing more than a piece of property.

He is quite clearly not ethically qualified to be left alone with patients, and may have psychological problems as well. Better that he learn a new trade than risk greater harm in the future.

[Tony64]

Originally Posted by Abdullah71601

If he branded the patient (like a slave) would you still be so retiscent to call it criminal? I think criminal action applies the appropriate level of punishment to a man that may consider a human nothing more than a piece of property.

He is quite clearly not ethically qualified to be left alone with patients, and may have psychological problems as well. Better that he learn a new trade than risk greater harm in the future.

I respect your opinion, but I do not agree.

[Grnvette65]

Thank you for edit tony64

[Rock]

I don't see a need for criminal proceedings unless the patients involved are upset.
Should he have been fired? Maybe not, but he should certainly have been sent to see a Psychologist and counselled about professional ethics.
It appears to be the work of an ego out of control, a condition often mentioned in relation to medical specialists, but an affliction shared by a sizeable proportion of the population, most without any justification for their belief.

[Dyim]

Surgeons have big ego. I think it is almost a necessity. Part of a personality trait of being a surgeon. He has one and is signing his 'work'. It is childish. If I have to guess, I am thinking he is probably reported by a surgeon that showed some professional jealously. His surgical assistants, scrub nurses, and anesthesiologists that work with him is well aware of his antics.

The laser probably cauterized a superficial layer of liver cells. I doubt any permanent harm is done.

I know it serves a purpose but orthopedic surgeons routinely mark and sign the skin of the correct limb that they are working on.

If he asked me before hand if he can laser inscribed my new liver, I would have said yes. Heck, I would even let him do a small size permanent tattoo beside the skin incision if he asked. He is giving me a new lease on life and a little mark on myself to feed his ego I am ok with. But I guess I am in the minority here.

[Andad]

A disappointing generalisation of surgeons.

Perhaps you wanted to be one and couldn't cut it?

[Demosthene]

Originally Posted by Tony64

According to the report, he has admitted guilt and resigned from his position. He will be sentenced in January.

The UK now has one less transplant surgeon.

Justice is served.

Everybody happy?

Yup good riddance, plenty of other surgeons that are willing to take his place.

My mechanic wouldn't sign his name on my cars engine without my permission, yet a Dr has so little respect for people that he does it to their internal organs without consent!

[Dyim]

Originally Posted by directioneng

A disappointing generalisation of surgeons.

Perhaps you wanted to be one and couldn't cut it?

I assumed this is directed at me?

Have been cutting for 20 years. Met and know countless ones in all specialties

Some are just better at not showing their ego compared to others.

https://www.wowi.com/about/Psych_Pro..._Residents.pdf

Old but interesting read. Surgeons are different.

[jhunter3]

I'm late to the discussion but I've been a physician for over 25 years. I'm appalled.

Narcissist: "rules don't apply to me"
Unprofessional. Period.
Criminality: technically a procedure, not consented. Definition of assault and battery in the US.
Whether it caused harm or not, it is an unnecessary and pointless stunt, that could cause harm--bleeding, liver injury, etc. It's possible he could even be charged with fraud in US of he billed for it, under the heading of "unnecessary procedure."

I'm sitting here wondering who in the operating suite would tolerate this behavior from a practitioner. Also, what else has there been? I'm certain this isn't the first time. I was chairman of Credentials Committee for several years in my hospital and on Medical Exective Committee as well, and I can tell you without a doubt, this behavior would have resulted in immediate termination of privileges in our hospital, and referred to the Board of Medical Examiners for disciplinary action.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

[The Libertine]

Originally Posted by Ruud Van Driver

I guess I'm in a minority here but if the guy had just saved my life and I found he'd etched his initials in my liver, it's not something I could get bent out of shape over. I really could not care less

Ok, so he's been a bit foolish, even narcissistic but any other criticisms, such as callous, are a bit harsh.

And as for criminal prosecution? Please. Some people clearly have too much time on their hands. There are far worse people out there doing some pretty naughty shit that need prosecuting long before a man that saves people's lives for a living.

Just my 2c/1.5p.

That’s how my thoughts are leaning.