Watch accuracy dependent on position?

[1mlee0916]

Do these numbers (pictures attached) look tight?

There seems to be quite a variation dependent on how I rest my watch at night. I thought self-regulation was a thing of the past....

It seems like I’m getting the best accuracy when laid on my dial (dial face down).

[Khans14]

All three of my Rolex watches run the exact same on my wrist and in any resting position. All three are 0.0 to +1.5 per day. Which watches did you test? I am curious if the movement inside influences this deviation you are seeing.

[Tools]

No, watches still have to obey the laws of physics .

[Khans14]

Is it possible that a movement of one type could be unaffected by resting position while another type of movement could be affected by it?

[enjoythemusic]

Originally Posted by Khans14

Is it possible that a movement of one type could be unaffected by resting position while another type of movement could be affected by it?

Yes, you want something along the lines of a Gyrotourbillon.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmxLAZZ2fhM

[1mlee0916]

It’s a Explorer 39mm mk2. Should be +/- 2 seconds

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by Khans14

Is it possible that a movement of one type could be unaffected by resting position while another type of movement could be affected by it?

gravity will effect it to a very small degree. Thats the idea behind the tourbillon. Its also why COSC has different positions they test as it varies. Temperature and gravity are the two main causes.

[meganfox17]

Originally Posted by 1mlee0916

There seems to be quite a variation dependent on how I rest my watch at night. It seems like I’m getting the best accuracy when laid on my dial (dial face down)

Actually your watch is running quite impressively Sir, especially when a comparison is made with the COSC specs. The allowed tolerance and difference between vertical and horizontal rates -6 sec to +8 sec /d
In METAS certification, the ultimate goal under all conditions is to aim for a maximum positional deviation rates 0 to +5 sec/d

Originally Posted by Khans14

I am curious if the movement inside influences this deviation you are seeing.

Your curiosity has got my attention.Yes it does. A watch exclusively tested at different positions ( usually 6) at 100% and 33% of power reserves will show varying average deviation rates

[padi56]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

gravity will effect it to a very small degree. Thats the idea behind the tourbillon. Its also why COSC has different positions they test as it varies. Temperature and gravity are the two main causes.

I sometimes wonder why there so much admiration for the tourbillon,perhaps the unquestioned and deserved prestige of Breguet the inventor many many years ago.But the Tourbillon works best in one position and in theory the Tourbillon is always modifying the slight timing errors in the vertical position.The Tourbillon does not correct position variations, it only prevents them being detected in the usual testing conditions. But when placed on say a vibrograph, the Tourbillon reveals its weaknesses immediately.The Tourbillon does not correct anything,in wrist movements, it only prevents the detection of any beat errors that still exists in natural gravity with wrist movement.

The Tourbillon is in fact an additional mechanism that consumes energy without producing anything except misinformation.The energy it consumes is taken from the reserve destined to the regulator. As a result, the balance wheel with less energy will have reduced advantages.Now I agree totally the skill needed to make the cage plus Tourbillon etc is a great horological skill.But in reality any Tourbillon watch is no more accurate that several other non Tourbillon watches that cost very very very much less.And even todays modern watches,with or without Tourbillons are not so accurate as one produced by John Harrison almost 300 years ago.

Gravity is one of the main causes of rate variations in watches,by creating the Tourbillon,when Breguet thought he was eliminating its effects,It looks like it was an big error on his part,he only masked them like Tourbillons do.Now if someone could come up and counteract the effect on gravity on a wrist watch totally.Now that would be a big break through but until then Tourbillons,IMHO are just good to look at,and they are very very expensive to own,and they make them because they can.But again looking at the other side of the coin,in Breguets day a hundred plus years ago when he invented the Tourbillon and the tools he had then.And now today with modern machines and computers puts a different perspective on the making side of Tourbillons today.

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by padi56

I sometimes wonder why there so much admiration for the tourbillon,perhaps the unquestioned and deserved prestige of Breguet the inventor many many years ago.But the Tourbillon works best in one position and in theory the Tourbillon is always modifying the slight timing errors in the vertical position.The Tourbillon does not correct position variations, it only prevents them being detected in the usual testing conditions. But when placed on say a vibrograph, the Tourbillon reveals its weaknesses immediately.The Tourbillon does not correct anything,in wrist movements, it only prevents the detection of any beat errors that still exists in natural gravity with wrist movement.

The Tourbillon is in fact an additional mechanism that consumes energy without producing anything except misinformation.The energy it consumes is taken from the reserve destined to the regulator. As a result, the balance wheel with less energy will have reduced advantages.Now I agree totally the skill needed to make the cage plus Tourbillon etc is a great horological skill.But in reality any Tourbillon watch is no more accurate that several other non Tourbillon watches that cost very very very much less.And even todays modern watches,with or without Tourbillons are not so accurate as one produced by John Harrison almost 300 years ago.

Gravity is one of the main causes of rate variations in watches,by creating the Tourbillon,when Breguet thought he was eliminating its effects,It looks like it was an big error on his part,he only masked them like Tourbillons do.Now if someone could come up and counteract the effect on gravity on a wrist watch totally.Now that would be a big break through but until then Tourbillons,IMHO are just good to look at,and they are very very expensive to own,and they make them because they can.But again looking at the other side of the coin,in Breguets day a hundred plus years ago when he invented the Tourbillon and the tools he had then.And now today with modern machines and computers puts a different perspective on the making side of Tourbillons today.

yeah ive read a few things that are pretty confusing on the actual fuctional usefulness of the complication. The idea is to counteract gravity, if it actually works as intended i have no idea. All i know is gravity/position does seem to effect my normal watches if i leave them in particular positions. If a tourbillon can actually eliminate it i dont know. Its such a small variation anyway i dont know why anyone would care. Id get one to look at it not for precision timekeeping.

[padi56]

Originally Posted by 1mlee0916

Do these numbers (pictures attached) look tight?

There seems to be quite a variation dependent on how I rest my watch at night. I thought self-regulation was a thing of the past....

It seems like I’m getting the best accuracy when laid on my dial (dial face down).

Looks like a case of (CCWTS) constant checking watch timing syndrome to me

[Boothroyd]

Peter, I find myself saying this again and again, but ALWAYS appreciate your posts. We could use more of it on TRF, IMHO. Thank you.

[1mlee0916]

Originally Posted by padi56

I sometimes wonder why there so much admiration for the tourbillon,perhaps the unquestioned and deserved prestige of Breguet the inventor many many years ago.But the Tourbillon works best in one position and in theory the Tourbillon is always modifying the slight timing errors in the vertical position.The Tourbillon does not correct position variations, it only prevents them being detected in the usual testing conditions. But when placed on say a vibrograph, the Tourbillon reveals its weaknesses immediately.The Tourbillon does not correct anything,in wrist movements, it only prevents the detection of any beat errors that still exists in natural gravity with wrist movement.

The Tourbillon is in fact an additional mechanism that consumes energy without producing anything except misinformation.The energy it consumes is taken from the reserve destined to the regulator. As a result, the balance wheel with less energy will have reduced advantages.Now I agree totally the skill needed to make the cage plus Tourbillon etc is a great horological skill.But in reality any Tourbillon watch is no more accurate that several other non Tourbillon watches that cost very very very much less.And even todays modern watches,with or without Tourbillons are not so accurate as one produced by John Harrison almost 300 years ago.

Gravity is one of the main causes of rate variations in watches,by creating the Tourbillon,when Breguet thought he was eliminating its effects,It looks like it was an big error on his part,he only masked them like Tourbillons do.Now if someone could come up and counteract the effect on gravity on a wrist watch totally.Now that would be a big break through but until then Tourbillons,IMHO are just good to look at,and they are very very expensive to own,and they make them because they can.But again looking at the other side of the coin,in Breguets day a hundred plus years ago when he invented the Tourbillon and the tools he had then.And now today with modern machines and computers puts a different perspective on the making side of Tourbillons today.

Wow, I learned something new today. Thanks for your knowledge! Love this forum.

[1mlee0916]

Originally Posted by padi56

Looks like a case of (CCWTS) constant checking watch timing syndrome to me

Hahha didn’t know that was a thing. I figured I’d do it for the first few weeks, since the watch is new. If everything looks ok, I would never have to worry about the accuracy again- maybe just check it once a year or something.

[The Libertine]

Originally Posted by 1mlee0916

Hahha didn’t know that was a thing. I figured I’d do it for the first few weeks, since the watch is new. If everything looks ok, I would never have to worry about the accuracy again- maybe just check it once a year or something.

Just relax, and enjoy your Rolex!

[padi56]

Originally Posted by The Libertine

Just relax, and enjoy your Rolex!

Have to agree.