The SIHH 2019 new release(PAM) makes me think Rolex is really underpriced.

[Rolex.c6]

Originally Posted by padi56

It always makes me smile when some show little understanding and plain ignorance when the name ETA is stated.Today some of the most collectible and expensive Rolex watches do not have a in-house movement but one from ETA Valjoux . Lets all remember before 2000 Rolex had never made a chronograph movement they relied on ETA Valjoux and Zenith.And before Rolex started to make there own escapement parts every Rolex Oyster had a hairspring manufactured by ETA Nivarox, and Rolex as far as I know they still out source the mainspring manufacture.Over the years there have been quite a few mediocre in-house made movements from some major manufactures so being in-house made is not always best.Even excellent movements by ETA are all in-house made,the biggest cost in any movement is the design, and then tooling up to make the movement,but once thats done you can just churn them out in there thousands.And today many manufactures are very highly automated like Rolex,so in theory all the movements parts should be in general all the same and quite easy to pass the tests like COSC test when fully assembled.But to make a movement totally by hand from just bare metal, then assemble its quite a different story to get the tolerances all correct if you want it certified to chronometer standards and very very expensive and time consuming to do.Remember the RWC were not watchmakers in the beginning,the movements were mainly made by Aeglar and still are, which are now part of Rolex SA.So what is in-house made today, even brands like Seiko every part is in-house made.And today some of the most sort after Rolex and Tudor watches don't even have a Rolex made movement inside.To me if any movement has a reliable track record over many years whether its so called in-house or where ever made.IMHO thats most important factor surely in buying any reliable watch no matter what the brand, because today just having the Rolex name we all pay quite a high price for that privileged.And in the ETA range of movements there 5 grades the two top grades are chronometer grade movements.And when proper regulated can match or better many high end brands even Rolex in performance accuracy and reliability.

So much knowledge... Impressive.
And here I am, proud of myself for remembering a couple of references...
But this kind of stuff is what makes me come here and look around (almost) daily.

[Speed]

Originally Posted by codecow

The new PAMs look like cheap plastic trash. I own a plexi 372.

I love those!

But at 47mm, a smidge too large.

[bonovox]

Originally Posted by nick c

It’s other watch companies as well.

Agreed.

[SS Oyster]

Any guesses to the values of those watches after a few years?

Rolex looks better, feels better, fits better and holds value better. Also, I’m guessing that PAM isn’t rated to +/- 2secs/day.


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[nick c]

Originally Posted by SS Oyster

Any guesses to the values of those watches after a few years?

Rolex looks better, feels better, fits better and holds value better. Also, I’m guessing that PAM isn’t rated to +/- 2secs/day.


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Do you own a Panerai ?

[SS Oyster]

Originally Posted by nick c

Do you own a Panerai ?

No and I thank goodness I do not. Very soft.


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[nick c]

Originally Posted by SS Oyster

No and I thank goodness I do not. Very soft.


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So I do you know, how Panerai wears?

[SS Oyster]

I owned in past, submersible, but no longer own one.


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[nick c]

Originally Posted by SS Oyster

I owned in past, submersible, but no longer own one.


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I own both, and enjoy them Equally, and don’t care about who holds the value better.

[JacksonStone]

Originally Posted by nick c

I own both, and enjoy them Equally, and don’t care about who holds the value better.

Some of that is relative, I think. I wouldn't want to buy Panerai at full price, but a good discount takes some of the sting out of the value proposition. My goal when buying is to acquire pieces I'll want to keep forever, which theoretically makes resale a non-issue...but things don't always work out that way.

[nick c]

Originally Posted by JacksonStone

Some of that is relative, I think. I wouldn't want to buy Panerai at full price, but a good discount takes some of the sting out of the value proposition. My goal when buying is to acquire pieces I'll want to keep forever, which theoretically makes resale a non-issue...but things don't always work out that way.

I do buy almost all my watches pre-owned. LoL

[dtwer]

Originally Posted by Scanspeakman

SD43 for sure, but to call it underpriced? Although I love my GMT master II and wear it daily, I would never call it underpriced or good value for money. More the other way around; the PAM is ridiculously overpriced.

This. To say Rolex being underpriced is just naive.

[AK797]

Originally Posted by myporsche

I really enjoyed this post. Great backup to the argument on what a great and reliable movement the F Piguet chrono is in the Royal Oak Chronograph that gets a lot of flack because it is not AP "in-house"

It doesn't really get much flak as it is an excellent and very reliable movement, I've owned one with no issues, but there are ofc some purists who want everything inhouse. I'm sure AP were half thinking well we got half the name right so what more do you want!

[rambo99]

the aim of my post is to point out the difference in selling price of two luxury dive watches. i said cheap ETA is just my feeling, not necessarily means that the movement is actually inferior or cheap in price. when it comes to luxury, something that is highly valued is exclusivity. in house means the movement is exclusive for just one brand. whereas the OP.XXXIV is a generic movement, used on watches across many brands. it may not be cheap, but it certainly doesnt feel as special as an inhouse movement.

[crownprince]

Originally Posted by padi56

It always makes me smile when some show little understanding and plain ignorance when the name ETA is stated.Today some of the most collectible and expensive Rolex watches do not have a in-house movement but one from ETA Valjoux . Lets all remember before 2000 Rolex had never made a chronograph movement they relied on ETA Valjoux and Zenith.And before Rolex started to make there own escapement parts every Rolex Oyster had a hairspring manufactured by ETA Nivarox, and Rolex as far as I know they still out source the mainspring manufacture.Over the years there have been quite a few mediocre in-house made movements from some major manufactures so being in-house made is not always best.Even excellent movements by ETA are all in-house made,the biggest cost in any movement is the design, and then tooling up to make the movement,but once thats done you can just churn them out in there thousands.And today many manufactures are very highly automated like Rolex,so in theory all the movements parts should be in general all the same and quite easy to pass the tests like COSC test when fully assembled.But to make a movement totally by hand from just bare metal, then assemble its quite a different story to get the tolerances all correct if you want it certified to chronometer standards and very very expensive and time consuming to do.Remember the RWC were not watchmakers in the beginning,the movements were mainly made by Aeglar and still are, which are now part of Rolex SA.So what is in-house made today, even brands like Seiko every part is in-house made.And today some of the most sort after Rolex and Tudor watches don't even have a Rolex made movement inside.To me if any movement has a reliable track record over many years whether its so called in-house or where ever made.IMHO thats most important factor surely in buying any reliable watch no matter what the brand, because today just having the Rolex name we all pay quite a high price for that privileged.And in the ETA range of movements there 5 grades the two top grades are chronometer grade movements.And when proper regulated can match or better many high end brands even Rolex in performance accuracy and reliability.

well, said!

[Ian Macdermott]

Nice to see the Rolex brain washing is working so well.

I would choose the Pam.

I am not a number. ( Under a certain age might not get this )



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