Thoughts on 16610LV Mark I

[T3F]

Hi all,

I've never been a huge fan of the 16610LV, but was just presented with a good opportunity to buy a Mark I example at what appears to be a very good price from a very trustworthy source. I'm not totally up to speed on this model, though, so I wanted to get the opinion of the forum in case I was missing anything.

Details:
-2003 production
-F4 serial
-No box or papers, but has service papers from Rolex
-Original bezel and service bezel
-Price: $17,000

Here are some photos, which I know aren't great:



Thanks!

[subx]

well F4 is certainly not 2003 production, but Late 2004

[pteryx]

The insert on both photos are different, and so are their prices

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

[1665fan]

Most of the time Rolex replaces a insert they don’t send back the original one....

[springer]

If you have RSC service papers, that would be a big plus in documenting the watch as an original, genuine 16610LV. I would suspect that a documented "flat 4" 16610LV would be in the neighborhood of $15,000 - give or take a little either way - for a single watch with RSC papers but missing the original warranty paper. Flat 4 complete sets are selling for $20,000 on up.

Below is a link to a thread that I put together on the early LVs. There are also a couple links mentioned in the thread that are well worth the read.

https://www.gmtforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=282

[Mikel212]

F serial, but not 2003 production.

Without proper paperwork, potential buyers will always have doubts about the legitimacy of these LVs. How hard is it to "fabricate" service papers? Isnt it just ink on letterhead on regular printer paper?

Prices for original LVs are at levels where making one from correct parts are profitable. Unlike Omega, you cant just order an extract using the serial number.

[T3F]

Thanks all. It looks like it would be better if it were from 2003, but it's still technically a Mark I which is good. I'll confirm what the deal with the service paperwork is.

How does everyone feel about $17k as the price? Seems pretty good based on other listings I've seen, but again, maybe I'm mistaken.

[windhover]

Seems rich for no papers..:

seperately. How do we judge whether a F serial is an original flat 4 or not?

[Sublovin]

Originally Posted by 1665fan

Most of the time Rolex replaces a insert they don’t send back the original one....

Pretty easy to send a watch in with no insert (say you lost it) and viola! You now have 2 inserts.

[swish77]

Originally Posted by Mikel212

How hard is it to "fabricate" service papers? Isnt it just ink on letterhead on regular printer paper?

It's actually quite hard. Not impossible, of course, but certainly not that easy. There are ways to weed out the fake ones, and if the paperwork is accompanied by a sales receipt, I'd be even more confident. Presumably the service wasn't that long ago, relatively speaking. This ain't a "vintage" Rolex, after all.

Would like to see a photo of the paperwork, if there's a question about it.

[rootbeer7]

OP, it looks great. I would strike up a deal whereby it goes to RSC for a service and returns like new, serviced movement and most importantly correct and new paperwork confirming it is what it is.

[springer]

Originally Posted by windhover

Seems rich for no papers..:

seperately. How do we judge whether a F serial is an original flat 4 or not?

Do some research and you'll know what era the flat 4s and distinctive dial were found on the F and Y9xxxxx serial numbers. There are plenty of informative articles found on the internet.

You might want to read the thread mentioned in my last post or try google.

[Mikel212]

I dont know......is there a Rolex book out on the paper quality, fonts and ink that Rolex Servicing Centers use when they issue service papers and receipts? Just because it doesnt match with yours exactly wouldnt mean that the service papers are fake.

I think when it comes to service paper....its like everyone else (one leg at a time). When the printer runs out of paper, someone goes the the supply room and grabs a 500 sheet ream and puts it in the laser jet printer. Seriously doubt that Rolex makes their paper in-house.

[springer]

Originally Posted by Mikel212

I dont know......is there a Rolex book out on the paper quality, fonts and ink that Rolex Servicing Centers use when they issue service papers and receipts? Just because it doesnt match with yours exactly wouldnt mean that the service papers are fake.

I think when it comes to service paper....its like everyone else (one leg at a time). When the printer runs out of paper, someone goes the the supply room and grabs a 500 sheet ream and puts it in the laser jet printer. Seriously doubt that Rolex makes their paper in-house.

I'm sure the RSC can verify any of their documents. They keep records on any and everything these days - especially with service repairs and service repair estimates.

By the way, the Dallas RSC, and probably the other service centers, now charges a $150 fee for service repair estimates if the customer declines service.

[Kingface66]

Originally Posted by Mikel212

I think when it comes to service paper....its like everyone else (one leg at a time). When the printer runs out of paper, someone goes the the supply room and grabs a 500 sheet ream and puts it in the laser jet printer. Seriously doubt that Rolex makes their paper in-house.

To be sure, they do use their own paper. I have three pages of service papers that I just got about two weeks ago from the RSC on 5th Avenue here in Manhattan. There's a very faint, pale green Rolex coronet in the center of all the sheets and the ink used in the upper left corner where a smaller light grey coronet and the word "ROLEX" is different than that on the rest of the paper.

[windhover]

what's the difference in values between a mk1 mk2 and mk3 flat 4?

I have a mk3 flat 4 full set that I'm thinking to offload... for a ceramic steel Daytona. dumb choice?

[18●20●22●▼●2●4●6]

Originally Posted by windhover

what's the difference in values between a mk1 mk2 and mk3 flat 4?

I have a mk3 flat 4 full set that I'm thinking to offload... for a ceramic steel Daytona. dumb choice?

I am not aware of 3 versions of Flat-4; I am not doubting. But my LV with F8 serial number with box and papers, never polished with sticker has never been offered more than $13,000.

To me, those earlier LV's with non-engraved rehaut should be checked with RSC or a trusted shop.

P.S. Rolex will be making ceramic Daytona's for years; if not a generation. But they have stopped making 16610LV for a while and they ain't coming back! Ever. Just my 2-cents...

[milwatch126]

Y & F serials only and all should have Mark 1 dials these are the only true flat four’s. Oringinal flat four inserts have serif font inserts are now 2500-3000 alone. There are now also flat four service inserts (so be careful) without serifs and a more narrow and four font and flat area.

M

[TurboWatch]

Originally Posted by T3F

Hi all,

I've never been a huge fan of the 16610LV, but was just presented with a good opportunity to buy a Mark I example at what appears to be a very good price from a very trustworthy source. I'm not totally up to speed on this model, though, so I wanted to get the opinion of the forum in case I was missing anything.

Details:
-2003 production
-F4 serial
-No box or papers, but has service papers from Rolex
-Original bezel and service bezel
-Price: $17,000

Here are some photos, which I know aren't great:



Thanks!

1. F4 is no 2003 production mate. Y8-Y9 and F0 have been documented as true 2003 Anniversary LV. These were always priced more money than the later one F1XXXXXXX to MXXXXXXX on the secondary market.

2. I would never buy 2003 LV, even it is Y8-Y9 or F0 without paper.

[springer]

Originally Posted by TurboWatch

1. F4 is no 2003 production mate. Y8-Y9 and F0 have been documented as true 2003 Anniversary LV. These were always priced more money than the later one F1XXXXXXX to MXXXXXXX on the secondary market.

2. I would never buy 2003 LV, even it is Y8-Y9 or F0 without paper.

The only information that I have found regarding F8 serial numbers for the 16610LV is from an auction house that sold an F8 " lug holes case" which was one of 10 produced. It appears that these are the only F8s produced or they are pre-production models.

My Y9 16610LV was sold during March 2004.

https://www.watchpricetrend.com/wiki...16610LV_mark_0

As far as the flat 4's bezel insert only having seriffs, they have also been identified as having non seriff bezel inserts as well.

If you have some information identifying Y8 models or non seriff flat 4 inserts that contradict other information available, please feel free to post it up here.

https://www.watchclub.com/curated-by...ry-sub-decoded

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/vint...nn-t11697.html

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/vint...nn-t11697.html

[springer]

Originally Posted by milwatch126

Y & F serials only and all should have Mark 1 dials these are the only true flat four’s. Oringinal flat four inserts have serif font inserts are now 2500-3000 alone. There are now also flat four service inserts (so be careful) without serifs and a more narrow and four font and flat area.

M

Read my post below regarding non seriff flat 4s. Maybe you can shed some light on how you came to the conclusion that the flat 4s all had seriff flat 4s.
There seems to be some contradictions with that assumption going back to 2017.

https://www.watchclub.com/curated-by...ry-sub-decoded

[newsboy]

Originally Posted by Sublovin

Pretty easy to send a watch in with no insert (say you lost it) and viola! You now have 2 inserts.

Rolex will not replace a lost LV insert in the Uk. New policy

[TurboWatch]

Originally Posted by springer

The only information that I have found regarding F8 serial numbers for the 16610LV is from an auction house that sold an F8 " lug holes case" which was one of 10 produced. It appears that these are the only F8s produced or they are pre-production models.

My Y9 16610LV was sold during March 2004.

https://www.watchpricetrend.com/wiki...16610LV_mark_0

As far as the flat 4's bezel insert only having seriffs, they have also been identified as having non seriff bezel inserts as well.

If you have some information identifying Y8 models or non seriff flat 4 inserts that contradict other information available, please feel free to post it up here.

https://www.watchclub.com/curated-by...ry-sub-decoded

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/vint...nn-t11697.html

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/vint...nn-t11697.html

Hi John,

I've never said anything about F8 serial.
I am an old fart so reading websites to get information isn't something that's easy for me. I've only commented on what I actually see and own.

The Basel LV was never a production model. It was with the lug holes. There were talks that there were 10 of these made; although Rolex never confirmed this. These were commonly referred to MK0 by the folks over Richard's VRF.

You've very lucky to have purchased the Y serial LV in 2004. If my memory still serves me, we had to be the dealer's prefer customers to be able to purchase one of the first LVs in the last quarter of 2003. These came with the LV press kit as well. These were the late Y8 and Y9 and F0 serials. In fact, I sold one of mine ( a F0 LV, sold in Dec 2003 ) to a good friend, who is a mod here ( You know who you are mate ).

Potential buyers have to do a lot of DD as these LV are not easily to authenticate. The MK 1 runs from Y to late F. However, Some "experts" can tell you that there are MK1_1 and MK1_2; same with the last MK3, MK4, MK5. MK8. To be honest, I can't tell the differences... I am attaching these photos from a good mate on VRF back in 2009:

LV-Mark-0-1-Basel

16610-LV-Mark-1-1-Y-Serial-2003


16610-LV-Mark-1-2-F-Serial-2003

16610-LV-Mark-2-1-F-Serial-2004-2005


16610-LV-Mark-2-2-F-Serial-2004


16610-LV-Mark-3-1-F-Serial-2004


16610-LV-Mark-3-2-D-Serial-2005


16610-LV-Mark-4-1-D-Serial-2005


6610-LV-Mark-4-2-D-Serial-2005


16610-LV-Mark-5-D-Serial-2005


16610-LV-Mark-6-Z-Serial-2006


16610-LV-Mark-7-M-Serial-2008


16610-LV-Mark-8-1-M-Serial-2008


16610-LV-Mark-8-2-M-Serial-2008

[milwatch126]

All this LV chat so I thought I would post a few pictures of my LV f5… serial before and after its chat with a ceramic floor a year or so after I bought it. I bought the watch without papers but before doing so I called Rolex London with the serial number and a nice lady told me it was indeed an LV and sold in Saudi Arabia (of course this resource has now stopped).
The watch was sent off to Rolex London via my local AD with a request for a replacement crystal without a cyclops and full service (which I and the AD thought it would never happen). When the estimate with costs and work required was returned, Rolex wanted to also replace the insert but I declined. The watch arrived back to my surprise as shown without a cyclops crystal fitted by Rolex during the service. Problem is that because of this rarity I don’t wear it so I bought another M serial, which I do wear.
I will post a few side by sides if anyone is interested in another post of the two (F and M serials) for comparison

Enjoy.


closest open gas station





Said M with older bro.....



M