Rolex Website re: Submariner Accuracy

[JElvis]

Good morning all. My new Sub C is running -1.8 seconds per day now. Very accurate. Interestingly, I always thought COSC certification guaranteed -4/+6, which I assume is still true. So, I went to the Rolex website and it says:

"Precision
-2/+2 sec/day, after casing"

First, I find this very cool as my watch is consistent at -1.8 per day (14 days now). I also find it interesting that they would list this as the accuracy. Just my own brain turning here, but would that mean they would actually "fix" or "regulate it" at no charge if it ran, say, -3/+3, still well within specs but not within their "precision" statement on the Rolex website? That is just me rambling, I doubt I would ever take it in for -3/+3, etc. But just made me think. I am mostly excited that mine is -1.8 and the website clearly says that this is within the expected precision of -2/+2. Very, very cool. Been a Rolex lurker/owner for a while but never saw this on their website.

[speedmaster73]

Yes. This was done a little over a year ago. Rolex watches that came with RED tag are -4/+6 and the new GREEN tags are -2/+2.

[natosub]

Congrats! And yes, some folks have sent theirs to RSC for being outside the new definition of -2/+2 and I believe Rolex has regulated them within spec free of charge.

[stil]

Perhaps just the wording but COSC doesn't guarantee anything. COSC is a certification that the watch meets the requirements to operate within the specified range of the certification.

They should adjust for free. My AD adjusts watches and doesn't charge me.

[Xerxes77]

Yes, this is Rolex!!!
You can regulated the accuracy of the Sub depending on the position in which you leave overnight.
My Sub 116613 if stay with dial down and up work +1 sec.
If are with crown up or down -1 sec.
In this mode my Sub in one mounth have -3 sec!!!
Try this!!

[padi56]

Originally Posted by speedmaster73

Yes. This was done a little over a year ago. Rolex watches that came with RED tag are -4/+6 and the new GREEN tags are -2/+2.

What the new spec means in the real world first the bare uncased movement is tested at the COSC to a AVERAGE of -4+6 seconds over any 24 hour period.And in the first 10 days of testing the movement could vary by up to 10 seconds on any single 24 hour period and still pass the COSC test to get its certifaction. After movement is shipped back to Rolex perhaps stored for weeks, months, or even a year before its matched to a case.Rolex then further tests on a timing machine to this new -2+2 AVERAGE spec,what does this mean well at time of testing movement did comply to the new spec.But this is not a guarantee movement will perform exactly the same every day for life.It's not like they have put some sort of magic phoo phoo dust in the case to make them run better .As most movements are basically the same as the 3 series first brought out in 1988,fact all the Rolex movements since the 15 series could with careful regulation match this new average daily spec, as it's all down to how well the movement is regulated ,and how the watch owners wearing habits reflect in the daily running of the watch.

Gravity affects mechanical watches the most thats why they are tested in 5 different positions.And in those different positions there will be very slight deviations in the timekeeping.Remember this the escapement of a mechanical watch in 24 hours pushes the gears 432,000 times.On the wrist the movement is constantly affected by the earth's gravity, metal expansion and contraction, temperature variations, subtle changes in lubrication and friction,mainspring power-reserve, shocks, and so on.The fact is that no mechanical watch made will keep perfect time, very close yes but perfect no and remember there are 86400 seconds in a day so will 2 seconds difference really matter only for the marketing..

[speedmaster73]

Originally Posted by padi56

What the new spec means in the real world first the bare uncased movement is tested at the COSC to a AVERAGE of -4+6 seconds over any 24 hour period.And in the first 10 days of testing the movement could vary by up to 10 seconds on any single 24 hour period and still pass the COSC test to get its certifaction. After movement is shipped back to Rolex perhaps stored for weeks, months, or even a year before its matched to a case.Rolex then further tests on a timing machine to this new -2+2 AVERAGE spec,what does this mean well at time of testing movement did comply to the new spec.But this is not a guarantee movement will perform exactly the same every day for life.It's not like they have put some sort of magic phoo phoo dust in the case to make them run better .As most movements are basically the same as the 3 series first brought out in 1988,fact all the Rolex movements since the 15 series could with careful regulation match this new average daily spec, as it's all down to how well the movement is regulated ,and how the watch owners wearing habits reflect in the daily running of the watch.

Gravity affects mechanical watches the most thats why they are tested in 5 different positions.And in those different positions there will be very slight deviations in the timekeeping.Remember this the escapement of a mechanical watch in 24 hours pushes the gears 432,000 times.On the wrist the movement is constantly affected by the earth's gravity, metal expansion and contraction, temperature variations, subtle changes in lubrication and friction,mainspring power-reserve, shocks, and so on.The fact is that no mechanical watch made will keep perfect time, very close yes but perfect no and remember there are 86400 seconds in a day so will 2 seconds difference really matter..

Agreed Padi. I was just stating the difference between the red tag and green tag.

My point being that 'technically' only those Rolex with GREEN Tags are subjected to the -2/+2 standard. Red tags are subjected to the -4/+6 standard.

A Rolex purchased in 2012 is not obligated to adhere to Rolexes NEW standard.

[seand442]

The question I have wondered about is that when they switched from the red tags to the green and changed the specs, how did they account for the pieces already in stores? Did the Rolex fairy come down and ensure everything was at+2/-2 or did they just figure most people wouldn't care about it?

[mactruck]

My AD told me Rolex told him not to talk about the COSC rating as they are sometimes not accurate. LOL.

[The Libertine]

Originally Posted by padi56

The fact is that no mechanical watch made will keep perfect time, very close yes but perfect no and remember there are 86400 seconds in a day so will 2 seconds difference really matter only for the marketing..

Wish we could make this a banner at the top of the forum... so very true.

[speedmaster73]

Originally Posted by The Libertine

Wish we could make this a banner at the top of the forum... so very true.

for better or worse luxury watch manufacturers have deemed timekeeping an important thing in 'marketing' their watches....

the 'next level' APs, PPs, VCs, ALS's of the world get away without doing this simply because of the superior finishing of their movements, 22 karat gold rotors etc...

[Annan]

Originally Posted by seand442

The question I have wondered about is that when they switched from the red tags to the green and changed the specs, how did they account for the pieces already in stores? Did the Rolex fairy come down and ensure everything was at+2/-2 or did they just figure most people wouldn't care about it?

Yes....I had the same thought at that time. My understanding was that all ADs were shipped green tags and told to simply switch them out for the red. I presume that Rolex would then regulate any not meeting the -2/+2 if the customer made a fuss about it. Soon after the new specs were announced I bought a BNIB DJ (36mm) that proudly displayed the green tag. Accuracy was indeed within -2/+2 but I was never sure if maybe that was just the luck of the draw. A few months ago I bought the new model DJ (41mm) so there was no doubt it was fresh from the factory, manufactured and adjusted as per Rolex's new claims. It also is well within -2/+2.

[Mystro]

Outstanding explanation...... This should be a sticky.

Originally Posted by padi56

What the new spec means in the real world first the bare uncased movement is tested at the COSC to a AVERAGE of -4+6 seconds over any 24 hour period.And in the first 10 days of testing the movement could vary by up to 10 seconds on any single 24 hour period and still pass the COSC test to get its certifaction. After movement is shipped back to Rolex perhaps stored for weeks, months, or even a year before its matched to a case.Rolex then further tests on a timing machine to this new -2+2 AVERAGE spec,what does this mean well at time of testing movement did comply to the new spec.But this is not a guarantee movement will perform exactly the same every day for life.It's not like they have put some sort of magic phoo phoo dust in the case to make them run better .As most movements are basically the same as the 3 series first brought out in 1988,fact all the Rolex movements since the 15 series could with careful regulation match this new average daily spec, as it's all down to how well the movement is regulated ,and how the watch owners wearing habits reflect in the daily running of the watch.

Gravity affects mechanical watches the most thats why they are tested in 5 different positions.And in those different positions there will be very slight deviations in the timekeeping.Remember this the escapement of a mechanical watch in 24 hours pushes the gears 432,000 times.On the wrist the movement is constantly affected by the earth's gravity, metal expansion and contraction, temperature variations, subtle changes in lubrication and friction,mainspring power-reserve, shocks, and so on.The fact is that no mechanical watch made will keep perfect time, very close yes but perfect no and remember there are 86400 seconds in a day so will 2 seconds difference really matter only for the marketing..

[lhawli]

For me, my Rolex is definitely within specification. My only issue is that it is on the slower side, which is what bothers me.

I would much rather have my watch 1~2 sec fast than being slow! That way and over time, i am not late to appointments and meeting! Plus being fast means I can hack to regulate rather than move the minute hand.

Do you think it will speed up over time or I should go get it regulated at my AD?

[El Cascarrabias]

Originally Posted by seand442

. . . when they switched from the red tags to the green and changed the specs, how did they account for the pieces already in stores?

Rolex may have been adjusting watches to the new specs well before the green tags came out. That would have covered many, but not all, of the watches that were already sitting on dealers' shelves when the green tags were attached.
.

[Skavary]

Originally Posted by padi56

What the new spec means in the real world first the bare uncased movement is tested at the COSC to a AVERAGE of -4+6 seconds over any 24 hour period.And in the first 10 days of testing the movement could vary by up to 10 seconds on any single 24 hour period and still pass the COSC test to get its certifaction. After movement is shipped back to Rolex perhaps stored for weeks, months, or even a year before its matched to a case.Rolex then further tests on a timing machine to this new -2+2 AVERAGE spec,what does this mean well at time of testing movement did comply to the new spec.But this is not a guarantee movement will perform exactly the same every day for life.It's not like they have put some sort of magic phoo phoo dust in the case to make them run better .As most movements are basically the same as the 3 series first brought out in 1988,fact all the Rolex movements since the 15 series could with careful regulation match this new average daily spec, as it's all down to how well the movement is regulated ,and how the watch owners wearing habits reflect in the daily running of the watch.

Gravity affects mechanical watches the most thats why they are tested in 5 different positions.And in those different positions there will be very slight deviations in the timekeeping.Remember this the escapement of a mechanical watch in 24 hours pushes the gears 432,000 times.On the wrist the movement is constantly affected by the earth's gravity, metal expansion and contraction, temperature variations, subtle changes in lubrication and friction,mainspring power-reserve, shocks, and so on.The fact is that no mechanical watch made will keep perfect time, very close yes but perfect no and remember there are 86400 seconds in a day so will 2 seconds difference really matter only for the marketing..

Thanks for the explanation! So the -2/+2 designation is meant to be an average? And not a measure of daily variance? That is, it may gain or lose more than 2 seconds per day but as long as the average is the the above, then it’s within specs?

[capt_and]

That's interesting. None of my recent watches have lost or gained any more than 1 sec day. I use the direction that the watch is laid overnight to get it as close to net 0 as possible. My sub was +0.7/day, WG Daytona was -0.4/day, and my DaytonaC is -0.3/day. I've have no other watches operate with this accuracy, day-in day-out, which is why I prefer Rolex.

[trfChris]

Originally Posted by lhawli

I would much rather have my watch 1~2 sec fast than being slow! That way and over time, i am not late to appointments and meeting! Plus being fast means I can hack to regulate rather than move the minute hand.

Before you get it regulated try laying it in different positions overnight. For me my Rolex is -0.5s/day when laying on its side with crown up and +1 s/day when laying flat dial down.

[icnbne]

My sd has a green tag and does -4.7seconds per day

Not too fussed about it though

[Brny11]

I could be wrong but i believe that +2/-2 is a cumulative total in multiple positions. So if your watch runs +6 over night dial up and -4 laying on the crown, that is in spec. If you wear the watch 24/7 and on the wrist it is -5 a day, it may very well still be in spec.

[strafer_kid]

Originally Posted by icnbne

My sd has a green tag and does -4.7seconds per day

Not too fussed about it though

Indeed...same here... a few seconds in life is hardly worth getting too worked up about!