16710ln 3186?

[TheRolexKingofLV]

Does anyone in the TRF world own, or ever seen a GMT ll 16710LN (Black Bezel) with an original Rolex factory installed 3186 movement? Does this watch even exist? Once again TRFers, thanks so much for any knowledge you can pass along to me, and i apoligize ahead of time for any ignorant questions I may be asking

[padi56]

Originally Posted by TheRolexKingofLV

Does anyone in the TRF world own, or ever seen a GMT ll 16710LN (Black Bezel) with an original Rolex factory installed 3186 movement? Does this watch even exist? Once again TRFers, thanks so much for any knowledge you can pass along to me, and i apoligize ahead of time for any ignorant questions I may be asking

Its possible the last of the 16710 did have the 3186 but no big deal either way.If its got a 3185 for one complete crown turn the second time zone hand will jump around 5-6 hours on the 3186 around 8-9 hours.But the only true way to check 100% is get the back off, as for the inserts they are fully inter-changeable so owner can easily change insert to all 3 if they want to.

[dr3ziz]

they do exist and are selling for a premium ,, especially in Europe
but as Padi said no difference what so ever from the regular 3185 movement in terms of reliability
if you are interested in getting one then look for an M serial or late Z serial no. 16710
as for the stick dial it isn't associated with the movement at all ,,, nor is it restricted to late serial no. GMTs

[crfsocal]

I am sure it exists, I only have seen the 16710A=Coke and the 16710B=Pepsi with the proper paper work.

[WS9D]

They exist with some of the z serials from my understanding. They're is a hefty premium on them because not "as many" were made before switching over to the 116710. To some collectors this is important as it is kind of considered a rare modern rolex if such a thing exists. I know davidsw.com has two of these for sale right now unless they sold already.

Is the premium worth it? I don't think so. For what one is going for I could get a 16710 and 16610 for the same price.

[SALTY]

Other than desire because of the "newer/better" mentality, is a 3186 much different than a 3185 from the standpoint of durability and reliability?

I do not fault or question your logic in wanting a 3186 as everyone has tastes and we seek watches that satisfy our itches.

[TheRolexKingofLV]

I read this interesting article that Id like to share with TRF, and get some feedback...good, or bad. Here it is..."Are the 16710-3186 GMTs “rare collectibles” with potential for price appreciation? Magic 8 ball says yes. History will be the ultimate decision maker here, but one can speculate how many (few?) exist. Rolex doesn’t publish production figures, but the COSC institute does publish how many COSC certificates it issues for Rolex – usually around 600,000 per year, give or take. The 16710-3186 production seems to have run from about the end of the Z production, through the end of the next production series, M (or until Rolex ran out of cases and bezels at some point during M production). I’d guess 16710-3186 production represents no more than between 2% to perhaps as much as 5% of the total production during this period (let’s say 700,000). So I’m guessing that no more than 35,000 examples of the 16710-3186 exist globally, and quite likely far less. That’s an extremely small production run by modern Rolex standards. And Rolex isn’t making any more of them. Whatever the exact number, you can be sure there are far fewer 16710-3186 GMTs out there than stainless Daytonas. And we all know how collectible they are."

[karmatp]

There is thousands of them out there. I had a late Z serial with the 3186, and I had a early Z with the 3185. They started mid Z serial through the M's, basically almost two years of mass production. With Rolex kicking out about a million watches a year, just imagine how many were made of one the their most popular sport watches back in the mid 2000's. I remember going into my local AD and them having dozens of M serial GMT II's at a time between the display case and their safe. My local AD alone said they sold hundreds of them probably.

I am pretty close with the main sales guy, I have purchased many watches from him over the years. Everyone who worked at the AD would get a chuckle out of the silly hype over a minor movement tweak once Rolex switched to the ceramic GMT II's.

The reality is that Rolex is a mass produced assembly line brand. The fact that other brands produced very limited production watches like 100-200, it is flat out ridiculous that people pay a premium on watches produced in the many thousands.

Funny thing is, the Explorer II's did the same thing. They switched from the 3185 to the 3186 around the same time. The GMT's have historically been a better seller than the old Explorer II's, so why no BS hype over them. Guaranteed there are way less of them out in the wild compared to the GMT II's with the blue spring. It is all just silly internet hype, all of it. It all began with sellers trying to command a premium on garbage things like stick dials or blue springs, and people with too much money to blow believing everything they read on the internet.

[crfsocal]

The 3186 "hype" as you guys have mentioned has started to spread to the earlier 3185 Y,D,F,Z serials with no holes case... their prices honestly are getting out of hand, I've been looking for one but I am having a hard time paying the "premium" on them...

I also agree with Karmatp, the same happened with the explorer II and the prices are fair on those... I know they are not as desirable as the GMT but still...

[TheRolexKingofLV]

Seems like a simple case of "supply and demand"....there are limited numbers of them out there, the market will be determined by the demand, and the market is fetching a premium...no different than any commodity on an open market. Who are we as individuals to put a price on something thats 100% speculation? Its what the market dictates...and these particular pieces have sky-rocketed! Do some research right here on TRF. Look at threads from 2012 talking about the "hype". They were a lot cheaper back then too!lol What it comes down to i guess is, if you don't like what the price is, don't buy it!! Back to my OP...any LN's? Pics

[TheRolexKingofLV]

I learned all the above at a junior college...cant ya tell!

[DCgator]

Originally Posted by TheRolexKingofLV

What it comes down to i guess is, if you don't like what the price is, don't buy it!!

Mighty nice of you to point this out to all of us, the uninformed.

[Andad]

TTIUWP.

My 'M'.

[TheRolexKingofLV]

That's a beauty! My ATF! Have you ever seen it in a LN (Black Bezel)? Thanks for your help...

[Alpino]

Originally Posted by karmatp

...
Funny thing is, the Explorer II's did the same thing. They switched from the 3185 to the 3186 around the same time.
...

The Gmt2 with 3186 ran from z8xxxxx to M6xxxxx approximately, and less than a year from end of 2006 to end of 2007.

That's the difference with Explorer 2 with 3186 that ran from end of 2006 as well but up to end of 2011 when model was renewed .
From a s/n standpoint that means we have 3186 Explo 2 from Z8xxxxx to all Mxxxxxx then all Vxxxxxx then some Gxxxxxx and randoms. It's many more.

[TheRolexKingofLV]

Numbers don't lie! It's simple math!

[newmagic]

@TheRolexKingofLV
Yes. DavidSW had one. He sold it a while back. I've seen another one posted a while back with the card showing 16710N. This is also one more that I know exists ;) That's all I've been able to find in the last 5 years.

[Amex4711]

Originally Posted by newmagic

@TheRolexKingofLV
Yes. DavidSW had one. He sold it a while back. I've seen another one posted a while back with the card showing 16710N. This is also one more that I know exists ;) That's all I've been able to find in the last 5 years.

The post from Trace is about 3 years ago

[newmagic]

@amex4711,
Thanks for pointing that out :) @TheRolexKingofLV was asking about an extremely rare watch. So far I know of 3 in existence. There is almost no information available on the internet about 16710LN (European designation) or 16710N (US designation) with 3186. I thought I'd help a bit. Better late than never.