AD+Grey saw first hand the strong relationship between the two

[makak]

Originally Posted by Muxi

Also heard of this arrangement recently. It’s like a value step up from buying a regular bnib which may have been stored for 1-2 years already. These are oven-fresh stocks.

The buyers gets a less-handled or even a sealed unit.

The AD is protected since the registered buyer is the end user.

How is the AD protected, when the customer can easily prove they paid a 3rd party for the watch. Surely grays supply an invoice, and most would pay via credit card or funds transfer. AD would have zero proof the end customer bought from them.

[peterpl]

Originally Posted by makak

How is the AD protected, when the customer can easily prove they paid a 3rd party for the watch. Surely grays supply an invoice, and most would pay via credit card or funds transfer. AD would have zero proof the end customer bought from them.

AD can write micky mouse on the name when its swiped. Rolex dont care nor why should they? Further to that Rolex dont care how you or anyone paid for their watches.

It can be cash, card, drugs or crypto currency. Some buyers like to stay anonymous especially if they are doing some shady businesses.

A gray can sell the watch to the end customer and yes the gray will provide the receipt but the sale between the AD and gray is legit. They are just end customers and the AD will swipe it at MSRP so they dont get flagged if an audit from Rolex happens. Then the Gray just meets the AD owner at a pub and hands him a couple of stacks of 1000s of their share in the profit.

This is very easy to get around and to hide this practice. Its well known now because many grays have big mouths to their customers and tell them. Once something happens widespread the secret can never be withheld.

[FATO]

Originally Posted by Juantxo

The authorized dealers’ shelves are empty. The gray market Internet sites are full of watches at absurd prices. Rolex MUST intervene and solve this issue which is clearly detrimental to the brand and worse yet to the consumer.

Cut a few of the suppliers to the secondary market and very soon the authorized dealers will have watches for the public at suggested retail prices.

I can see one way Rolex can intervene (I don’t support it because it wouldn’t be good for all of us either). Rolex can raise prices up to grey market prices.

[WatchLurv]

The cards are left blank for the name of the client, however they have already been swiped (if they're in the grey's possession). When they've been swiped the warranty starts and that's what counts. If the watches are sold 6 months later and they plot the date on it, it is just false security for the buyer. The watches will count from the day (or the same month) they were swiped, ONLY if RSC checks up on that. They normally go by the number written on the back of the card, but a quick swipe in their system could reveal actual date.

Does this come as a surprise? They got a blue Skydweller and a Panda for 2 pearlmasters. Personally I'd think that's a crap deal, but hey. If it makes sense for them, sure. I know other people on here wouldn't pick up 2 pearlmasters to relieve the AD of their inventory - they just want their SS models.

[Muxi]

Originally Posted by HL65

Interesting because when a Rolex is sold by an AD the card has to be swiped now and goes into system. So how could a watch leave a store without being swiped? One would think the warranty would begin when the card was swiped into the system to trigger it not a date anyone can write in on a card anytime they want.

The watch is declared sold by the AD only when it has been sold by the gray dealer.

The dealer sends the name of the buyer and the AD invoices it accordingly, at msrp.

[Muxi]

Originally Posted by FATO

I can see one way Rolex can intervene (I don’t support it because it wouldn’t be good for all of us either). Rolex can raise prices up to grey market prices.

This solution will create a whole lot of unintended complexity, among which is the possibility of even higher prices. And it may even mess Rolex up.

[HL65]

Originally Posted by HL65

I did not read his further posts or go through all of them so yes I do get it. I also know some of the top dealers who do and have done that here.

Originally Posted by Muxi

The watch is declared sold by the AD only when it has been sold by the gray dealer.

The dealer sends the name of the buyer and the AD invoices it accordingly, at msrp.

[Tavli3]

Originally Posted by HL65

So the AD writes up a phony invoice and keeps it for the record. How does the AD show the actual payment transaction on his books since buyer is paying the gray.

Does gray send payment in the MSRP amount to balance the books and splits the profits in cash?

I’m assuming that Rolex has the right to audit ADs sales records so ADs must be taking some precautions. No?




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[Muxi]

Originally Posted by Tavli3

So the AD writes up a phony invoice and keeps it for the record. How does the AD show the actual payment transaction on his books since buyer is paying the gray.

Does gray send payment in the MSRP amount to balance the books and splits the profits in cash?

I’m assuming that Rolex has the right to audit ADs sales records so ADs must be taking some precautions. No?




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The gray already paid cash for it before he took the watches to sell.

No invoice yet. Rolex will not do a physical count of AD inventory.

In a few days or weeks, records are updated with the end-users’ names.

[peterpl]

Originally Posted by Tavli3

So the AD writes up a phony invoice and keeps it for the record. How does the AD show the actual payment transaction on his books since buyer is paying the gray.
Does gray send payment in the MSRP amount to balance the books and splits the profits in cash?
I’m assuming that Rolex has the right to audit ADs sales records so ADs must be taking some precautions. No?
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It ain't no phony invoice. Its legit. The AD selling to the gray for MSRP is no different selling to an end user. They can write Micky Mouse or John Doh or Peter Pan or any other made up name.

Then the gray simply sells to the end user and splits the profits. Quite simple really.

[LndLord]

Originally Posted by rootbeer7

How on earth is this a surprise to anyone?

I’m thinking the same

[007timer]

Like you said. This is not new nor is it a surprise to anyone. It’s obvious when the AD has nothing and on the same day a reseller has the watch you want, but for 100% premium.

Someone pointed out to me on another post that we (on the forums) represent a small percentage of Rolex watch buyers. Although we may each have multiple pieces in the collection, the vast majority of the consumers wanting to buy, are either buying PM, TT or dropping a premium.

This is systemic and part of the retail cycle. The AD/reseller relationship have been established for years, the fine tuned it and have been working closely together to mutually benefit. This recent short term supply crunch is not going to last forever and when it’s all said and done, everyone who is bashing on resellers will be gladly giving them money for a discounted watch with no sales tax.




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[inadeje]

I am not sure that this could be broad-brush applicable. In any distribution chain you’ll have rogue players but, I think it would be foolish to apply the content of this thread to the whole distribution chain (ADs). I know that we are all partial to a bit of conspiracy but, the assumption that menial AD staff across the world are all running an intricate parallel market just isn’t believable. Due to the size of the Rolex distribution network, we’d have had 100s of youtube videos by now of alleged AD staff with voice overdubs and blacked out eyes spilling the beans.

[peterpl]

Originally Posted by inadeje

I am not sure that this could be broad-brush applicable. In any distribution chain you’ll have rogue players but, I think it would be foolish to apply the content of this thread to the whole distribution chain (ADs). I know that we are all partial to a bit of conspiracy but, the assumption that menial AD staff across the world are all running an intricate parallel market just isn’t believable.

Who said its menial AD staff? The owners of the ADs are in on it and its not just the small ones its the massive ones.

You forget the power of money. It makes seemingly nice/truthful people do some crazy things. Never ever forget the power of money.

[inadeje]

Originally Posted by peterpl

Who said its menial AD staff? The owners of the ADs are in on it and its not just the small ones its the massive ones.

You forget the power of money. It makes seemingly nice/truthful people do some crazy things. Never ever forget the power of money.

Hey, I get your view. However, this thread is written and the responses given, in a manner that would tend to completely generalize. Look at how many ADs Rolex has, this conspiracy simply couldn’t be going on to the extent that this whole thread deems. The proverbial “cat” would have exited the “bag” already and it hasn’t. Disgruntled ex AD staff, fired area manager, someone over these past 2 years would have spilled the beans and, this is a hot topic and news worthy, so if it really existed on the scale alleged, logic tells me that by now this conspiracy would have been proven, beyond a shadow of doubt. However, it hasn’t been.

[CharlesN]

Originally Posted by Ropa131

I want the AD to be identified.

The AD needs to be identified so that Rolex USA know wheo he is and stops these transactions.

It does no good for the end users and gives Rolex a bad name.

[Robtayham]

I actually think it’s relatively simple: As with every luxury goods company, Rolex produces a finite amount of watches each year. They distribute these watches through a global distribution network of ADs. The ADs that are in big markets are allocated more watches. The ADs that are in small markets are allocated fewer watches. Due to the excessive customer demand, the ADs have to decide who to sell to. It’s not first come, first serve. No luxury goods provider does that. In order to guarantee on-going sales, they cultivate lasting, healthy, long term relationships with buyers. They don’t hold product back waiting for the first time or occasional collector. It’s the same reason why we’re not all driving Ferraris. The only difference is that Rolexes are ‘cheap’ enough that there’s a broader base of potential customers who think they have a legitimate chance of buying a Rolex. There is no scenario where Rolex doesn’t continue to cull out these ‘low end’ customers. That is 100% of what they’re currently doing and what we’re experiencing.

[Tavli3]

Originally Posted by peterpl

It ain't no phony invoice. Its legit. The AD selling to the gray for MSRP is no different selling to an end user. They can write Micky Mouse or John Doh or Peter Pan or any other made up name.



Then the gray simply sells to the end user and splits the profits. Quite simple really.

So not to over think this, the AD sells to John Doe gray dealer with his name and I presume serial number on invoice and then swipes and names the warranty card in the name of the end buyer.

Again not to difficult for Rolex to sniff that out.
If they wanted too!


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[Muxi]

Originally Posted by Tavli3

So not to over think this, the AD sells to John Doe gray dealer with his name and I presume serial number on invoice and then swipes and names the warranty card in the name of the end buyer.

Again not to difficult for Rolex to sniff that out.
If they wanted too!


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AD sells to John Doe gray dealer without invoice paid in cash above msrp. John Doe gray dealer sells watch to Peter Doe end buyer for a profit. John Doe returns to AD and asks him to invoice the watch serial number in the name of Peter Doe, at msrp, then swipes the card and writes the name Peter Doe on the warranty card.

As far as Rolex is concerned, all paperwork and invoice will show that AD sold directly to Peter Doe.

[Tavli3]

Gin clear now, thanks.
Very difficult to stop this if not impossible so I guess we can expect more of the same for the foreseeable future.


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[Mr.Rolex1]

Originally Posted by MrPear

Rolex need to do something about this pathetic mess.

[sunnygps]

Rolex is laughing all the way to the bank. Who could have imagined that even SS DJ41 will one day become allocated pieces.

In my opinion, Rolex will change nothing. It will be the external factors, such as weak economy and/or demand.

The grey dealers have existed for a very long time. We loved them when they were selling below MSRP, no tax and valid Rolex warranty. Rolex did nothing then either.

[GB-man]

Nothing new its been this way for years. My first buy off trf a gmt ln was drop shipped from an AD my name on it.

[Kliminator]

Originally Posted by Muxi

AD sells to John Doe gray dealer without invoice paid in cash above msrp. John Doe gray dealer sells watch to Peter Doe end buyer for a profit. John Doe returns to AD and asks him to invoice the watch serial number in the name of Peter Doe, at msrp, then swipes the card and writes the name Peter Doe on the warranty card.

As far as Rolex is concerned, all paperwork and invoice will show that AD sold directly to Peter Doe.

Agree that this has been happening for awhile now.

The real question is what about sales tax now. Many ADs stating sales tax must be collected regardless where the watch is going (except for states where there is no sales tax).

Is davidSW charging sales tax now? If he isn't and the transaction happens as you stated - how to treat sales tax? Let's say for example on an undesirable piece

[DP63]

The only way Rolex would get involved in any of this would be if it were directly effecting their profit in a detrimental fashion ... other than that, its business as usual for them, the AD's pay for the stock, its not sale or return, the AD's pay to have their shop laid out in a way that Rolex instruct, and so on and so forth .... Rolex make watches and sell to AD's, thats ALL they do.

[padi56]

Originally Posted by Ks6pd

So your post suggests that you may have seen said cards but you don’t specifically say you did. Did you personally see the warranty cards and the ADs name?

It’s hard to believe a post like this from someone with a really low post count that doesn’t include a whole lot of facts. Not trying to shoot your thread down, just more evidence is nice before you get the community here all worked up.

Like many of these types of posts lately on forum most are IMHO purely fantasy island and should be taken with a pinch of salt.

[jaisonline]

Peter, I agree with you about many posts being fantasy. This one is slightly different. OP's post outlines a very plausible way popular Greys are getting their new stock. Yeah, I know he didn’t provide proof. However, it explains how people are buying popular SS models on the secondary market & still getting their name on warranty cards. Heck, many of these new watches are being listed for sale with stickers still on which likely means blank warranty card.

Even our own fav Greys have multiple “new / stickers still on” widely popular SS models for sale month after month (including today) while normal people like us, can't get anything but a 2-tone DJ at our ADs. It's a darn shame but when money is involved, too many people behave slimy.

At the end of the day, there is a lot of circumstantial info here but still, it explains a lot.

Originally Posted by padi56

Like many of these types of posts lately on forum most are IMHO purely fantasy island and should be taken with a pinch of salt.

[HogwldFLTR]

This type of posting really does little other than bunching member's shorts. Nothing discussed here in the thread should be a surprise to the members unless they are new to the forums. IMHO the best way to win is not to play. Find an exit piece and leave the game altogether.