32xx movement problem poll and data thread

[NIHO]

Porsche IMS bearing

[HiBoost]

FuzzyTroll, it would be most welcome if you'd just come out and state your MO here. You just joined the forum this month and so far you've really only contributed in 2 threads. 9 of your 12 posts are in this thread, practically begging us to stop talking about this. Then 2 more of the posts (your first posts) are in another 32xx post where you are taking obvious shots at Ashton Tracy for his analysis. You claim to be from Ottawa where he is from. Coincidence? Are we all being graced with your presence because you've got some problem with him and found the site by googling his name? I'm just trying to understand what compels a person to join a forum and jump into an ongoing discussion and protest its continuation. You also seem quite defensive about the 32xx's reputation. That is obviously the case in this thread, but also could be construed in the other thread (Ashton, after all, selected the 31xx as the winner over the 32xx). Are we to imagine you are the movement's designer, perhaps working remotely from Canada? Or maybe your life savings is tied up in 32xx powered watches and you fear a downturn in the market from our scandalous reporting? It all seems laughable but I struggle to think of any reasonable explanation for your remarks. Then again, it's often foolish to try and understand the motivations of a troll, that's sort of the point of them!

[Fuzzyme]

Originally Posted by HiBoost

FuzzyTroll, it would be most welcome if you'd just come out and state your MO here. You just joined the forum this month and so far you've really only contributed in 2 threads. 9 of your 12 posts are in this thread, practically begging us to stop talking about this. Then 2 more of the posts (your first posts) are in another 32xx post where you are taking obvious shots at Ashton Tracy for his analysis. You claim to be from Ottawa where he is from. Coincidence? Are we all being graced with your presence because you've got some problem with him and found the site by googling his name? I'm just trying to understand what compels a person to join a forum and jump into an ongoing discussion and protest its continuation. You also seem quite defensive about the 32xx's reputation. That is obviously the case in this thread, but also could be construed in the other thread (Ashton, after all, selected the 31xx as the winner over the 32xx). Are we to imagine you are the movement's designer, perhaps working remotely from Canada? Or maybe your life savings is tied up in 32xx powered watches and you fear a downturn in the market from our scandalous reporting? It all seems laughable but I struggle to think of any reasonable explanation for your remarks. Then again, it's often foolish to try and understand the motivations of a troll, that's sort of the point of them!

I just think this is one of the stupidest threads I've ever seen on a web based forum discussion page. People on this thread making wild accusations and pontifications with very little knowledge of watchmaking.

Since everybody actuall thinks this thread is knowledge based and actually valid, I will shut my mouth.

However, I will check back from time to time.

[rolexgiants]

Anyone having trouble with the 32XX movement in the DD40? I’m not seeing any complaints...

[Andad]

Originally Posted by Fuzzyme

I just think this is one of the stupidest threads I've ever seen on a web based forum discussion page. People on this thread making wild accusations and pontifications with very little knowledge of watchmaking.

Since everybody actuall thinks this thread is knowledge based and actually valid, I will shut my mouth.

However, I will check back from time to time.

Best post so far......

[amanbra]

Originally Posted by rolexgiants

Anyone having trouble with the 32XX movement in the DD40? I’m not seeing any complaints...

Yes I believe so but the sample size is way smaller


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[rolexgiants]

Originally Posted by amanbra

Yes I believe so but the sample size is way smaller


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Yes smaller sample size! But I don’t see anyone complaining

[Robf52]

Originally Posted by saxo3

Best answers!

Imagine you bought the same 7 watches as Robf52 did, for a today's price (in Switzerland) of exactly 77'000 CHF (85'000 US$). Would you acknowledge problems?

Better not to look or measure but quote the -2/+2 sec/day (Rolex values) without knowing about accuracy or precision. Then you vote "Yes, no issue" and the preached "real world" remains in perfect order.

Then you buy the lottery ticket, and ... WIN!

Saxo better not to judge the truthfulness of a post when you don't know what you're talking about. I know my watches and know their time keeping accuracy. Yes I'm a Rolex enthusiast but have no axe to grind either way. If I had encountered any issues, keeping them a secret would make no sense. Are you disappointed I'm not having movement problems? Or is it just your jealousy showing?

[TheVTCGuy]

Originally Posted by Robf52

Saxo better not to judge the truthfulness of a post when you don't know what you're talking about. I know my watches and know their time keeping accuracy. Yes I'm a Rolex enthusiast but have no axe to grind either way. If I had encountered any issues, keeping them a secret would make no sense. Are you disappointed I'm not having movement problems? Or is it just your jealousy showing?

He’s disappointed Rob, he has an agenda, ignores contradicting information and embellishes ones that support his theory. Oh, and like you, I have no interest either way, I have a 3235 running excellently (but believe there is something going on, with a two to one ratio in this small sample size). Time will tell on my watch I guess, but I also believe Rolex, being (arguably) the best watch manufacturing company in the world would have some kind of solution/fix/explanation. The movement has been out about six years now, if a problem has arisen I believe it will be addressed; Rolex wold not have achieved the success they have by producing flawed movements or not fixing an issue that is discovered.

[amanbra]

Originally Posted by rolexgiants

Yes smaller sample size! But I don’t see anyone complaining

I’m pretty sure bas said he has seen the issue in the 3255 and 3285.


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[HiBoost]

Originally Posted by TheVTCGuy

He’s disappointed Rob, he has an agenda, ignores contradicting information and embellishes ones that support his theory.

Saxo is surely capable of defending himself but I do find this characterization a bit off, especially given your normally reasonable tone. To be blunt there literally is no contradicting information. The only actual watchmakers who have posted in this thread all suggest there is a problem. To believe otherwise would require, what, thinking Bas photoshopped the images? The only debate is over how widespread the problem is. Some believe you have as much likelihood of splitting an atom when you go to cut into your steak at dinner. But many of us have already seen too many of these "exceedingly rare" reports to believe it isn't systemic to some extent. Does it impact every single 32xx? Of course not. Has any quality mechanical item ever had a 100% failure rate? That would be as shocking as a 0% failure rate. But in addition to the obviously defective pieces, my personal 180 amplitude (but still keeping spec time) Sub suggests there could be a whole group of movements that may be on borrowed time even though things look great at the moment. We shall see. And that is precisely the point of the thread. I am quickly losing interest in explaining the concept of an ellipsoid to flat earthers. (That is not directed at you VTC!)



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[TheVTCGuy]

Originally Posted by HiBoost

Saxo is surely capable of defending himself but I do find this characterization a bit off, especially given your normally reasonable tone. To be blunt there literally is no contradicting information. The only actual watchmakers who have posted in this thread all suggest there is a problem. To believe otherwise would require, what, thinking Bas photoshopped the images? The only debate is over how widespread the problem is. Some believe you have as much likelihood of splitting an atom when you go to cut into your steak at dinner. But many of us have already seen too many of these "exceedingly rare" reports to believe it isn't systemic to some extent. Does it impact every single 32xx? Of course not. Has any quality mechanical item ever had a 100% failure rate? That would be as shocking as a 0% failure rate. But in addition to the obviously defective pieces, my personal 180 amplitude (but still keeping spec time) Sub suggests there could be a whole group of movements that may be on borrowed time even though things look great at the moment. We shall see. And that is precisely the point of the thread. I am quickly losing interest in explaining the concept of an ellipsoid to flat earthers. (That is not directed at you VTC!)



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Hey, I agree! I find it troubling that even in our small sample size it is (roughly) a two to one ratio. I am no statistician, but to me that suggests something is amiss. I am actually dreading the next several months to one year to see if mine has any issues, but... I guess we will see. The issue that upset me is his bias of the posted information. For example, on mine, I posted the Amplitude readings of my watch in six different positions as taken by a certified Rolex Watchmaker, they showed excellent results in every aspect. He suggested that it was only due to the fact the watch was recently wound. And Rob’s post saying all his watches were running well.... He gets questioned about the validity of his post. Really? Anyway, I am done with this, what could have been an interesting thread has turned in to a “look at me-the sky is falling” exercise. I don’t want to waste any more time. I surely hope the issue is resolved... somehow. New part? New lubrication procedure? I hope it gets fixed.

PS. No offense taken, I liked the remark about the flat Earthers!

[HiBoost]

Originally Posted by TheVTCGuy

For example, on mine, I posted the Amplitude readings of my watch in six different positions as taken by a certified Rolex Watchmaker, they showed excellent results in every aspect. He suggested that it was only due to the fact the watch was recently wound. And Rob’s post saying all his watches were running well.... He gets questioned about the validity of his post. Really?

Totally understand if you have better things to do with your time, so no need to respond again but I did want to give my take on these two points.

First, the spec for minimum amplitude is after 24 hours. My watch, for example, looks ok at full wind. But only 12 hours later it is on the edge, and at the 24 hour mark it is well below the minimum. So I think this is what saxo was getting at, not trying to poo poo your (hopefully) good results. As far as Rob, nothing would make me happier than to hear of a guy who has 50 perfect 32xx watches. Seriously. Because we've heard of several people who got more than one dud which seems incredibly unlikely unless there is a really widespread problem. But this thread does have "data" in the title and we're trying to post as many tables, graphs, and well, data, as we can. So (paraphrasing) "trust me bro, I've got a ton of these things and they are all perfect" doesn't really provide an apples to apples comparison. I would LOVE to have somebody with the deep collection Rob has throw them all on a machine to see what kind of amplitudes all these perfect watches are seeing 24 hours after full wind. We hear that this movement is lower by design, but it would still be nice to further quantify that.



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[saxo3]

Originally Posted by Robf52

Saxo better not to judge the truthfulness of a post when you don't know what you're talking about. I know my watches and know their time keeping accuracy. Yes I'm a Rolex enthusiast but have no axe to grind either way. If I had encountered any issues, keeping them a secret would make no sense. Are you disappointed I'm not having movement problems? Or is it just your jealousy showing?

Wow, harsh words plus questioning me what I'm talking about, highest degree of smartness. Never underestimate to whom you are talking.

You only claimed the -2/+2 sec/day accuracy without any evidence of truth for your watches, that's doubtful for me.

Deliver measurement data, as others and I did, then I discuss further with you.

For sure no disappointment and certainly no jealousy on my side.

Honestly, it would be great if you could proof that all these 7 watches are running within the accuracy you state.

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by TheVTCGuy

He’s disappointed Rob, he has an agenda, ignores contradicting information and embellishes ones that support his theory.

A completely unfounded suspicion

Originally Posted by TheVTCGuy

The issue that upset me is his bias of the posted information. For example, on mine, I posted the Amplitude readings of my watch in six different positions as taken by a certified Rolex Watchmaker, they showed excellent results in every aspect. He suggested that it was only due to the fact the watch was recently wound.

I just re-read all your 30 posts in this thread, these are 4,5% of all replies (674) so far, and ranks you to position 7 in quantity. Only post #111 contained data from your watchmaker. Concerning the amplitude readings, I replied the following in # 113 and you applauded in #122.

Your claim "He suggested that it was only due to the fact the watch was recently wound." is just b......t.

Your conclusion (and an excellent reply):

Originally Posted by TheVTCGuy

I was trying to understand all this about amplitude, and beat error, and mainspring force, and molecular alignment.... Then my head exploded

Originally Posted by TswaneNguni

Stay calm ..and just get the pieces together .

My conclusion:
-> No agenda, no bias, no theory ... but in favour of measurement data and facts

[WalterE]

This thread is quickly turning sour...

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by WalterE

This thread is quickly turning sour...

Agree, not at all my intention but I can't leave some statements about my suspected intentions w/o comments.

I'm as factual and data-based as possible!

Honestly, you are kindly invited to contribute with whatever data you have.

I show again the positve results for my 126600 after repair and hope to see more like that!
Both graphs tell more than 1000 words.


More details in posts #466 and #552

[Ashton_Horologist]

Originally Posted by HiBoost

FuzzyTroll, it would be most welcome if you'd just come out and state your MO here. You just joined the forum this month and so far you've really only contributed in 2 threads. 9 of your 12 posts are in this thread, practically begging us to stop talking about this. Then 2 more of the posts (your first posts) are in another 32xx post where you are taking obvious shots at Ashton Tracy for his analysis. You claim to be from Ottawa where he is from. Coincidence? Are we all being graced with your presence because you've got some problem with him and found the site by googling his name? I'm just trying to understand what compels a person to join a forum and jump into an ongoing discussion and protest its continuation. You also seem quite defensive about the 32xx's reputation. That is obviously the case in this thread, but also could be construed in the other thread (Ashton, after all, selected the 31xx as the winner over the 32xx). Are we to imagine you are the movement's designer, perhaps working remotely from Canada? Or maybe your life savings is tied up in 32xx powered watches and you fear a downturn in the market from our scandalous reporting? It all seems laughable but I struggle to think of any reasonable explanation for your remarks. Then again, it's often foolish to try and understand the motivations of a troll, that's sort of the point of them!

I do find it very strange he is from Ottawa. It's not a very big horological town... Perhaps the local AD has a hit out on me?

Jeff, let's not forget the fact that he brought down the entire British Horological Institute as knowing nothing about Rolex. An institute that has members that have more horological credentials in their left pinky than his entire body could ever encapsulate.

We are also still awaiting his credentials. Has and does he work for Rolex? Does he own a 32xx series movement? Or, perhaps, he just likes to feel big by posting on watch forums? I do sincerely apologize that institutions such as the BHI and HSNY value my opinions and credentials as a watchmaker. Perhaps if his comments were a little more constructive, people may take notice...

[NachoNeal]

My 126333 has been running about -1 second per day for the past ten days.

[Robf52]

Originally Posted by saxo3

Wow, harsh words plus questioning me what I'm talking about, highest degree of smartness. Never underestimate to whom you are talking.

You only claimed the -2/+2 sec/day accuracy without any evidence of truth for your watches, that's doubtful for me.

Deliver measurement data, as others and I did, then I discuss further with you.

For sure no disappointment and certainly no jealousy on my side.

Honestly, it would be great if you could proof that all these 7 watches are running within the accuracy you state.

Saxo my last comment to you then I'm out as you are not worth arguing with.
I posted my observed watch daily accuracy as measured against my iPhone. I'm not a watchmaker and do not own a timegrapher. I didn't realize that you had to have those credentials in order to voice a post. If you don't believe my observations that's your prerogative and your problem. Bye bye.

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by Robf52

Bye bye.

Great news and best post

[saxo3]

Hello Ashton,

Thanks for your feedback above (#678).

May I ask you a favour and comment about the data set that WE collected here so far and described in several posts and graphs such as e.g. #552, #432, #430?

Do YOU have some additional measurements with 32xx movements to share with us?

Cheers!

[Robf52]

Originally Posted by saxo3

Great news and best post

saxo i could say something nasty like look at the middle finger in my wave but I won't. I will say 2 final things: do TRF a favor and exit, and please do the world a favor and get psychiatric help.

[WastedYears]

I did some measurements over a couple days to compare the Rolex watches in my collection.



I fully wound all watches and then measured them at 12 hour intervalls, with the last intervall for the two 32xx movement watches being at 20 hours. The lift angles were set at 52° for the older two and at 53° for the newer two. The dates for each watch are those on the warranty card, aka the month they were purchased at an AD.

Each data point is a rounded average of 10 - 12 individual measurements.

These are the results:



What spurned me to buy a timegrapher and take these measurements is a previous post I made in this thread early last week. I wrote three short paragraphs about my experiences with my BLRO, how it has been performing lately and a comparison to my other Rolex watches.
That post was deleted for some reason. Instead of reposting the same thing and risk getting it deleted again, I figured I would get proof of my statements as well as actual measurements rather than just the ballpark estimates I had in my head.



I think it's pretty obvious that there's an issue with my BLRO. The question I now ask myself is, do I bring it in to the AD (which re-opened again today after being in lockdown) have them re-adjust/repair it, only to have the same issue possibly pop up again somewhere down the line? Or do I wait until Rolex maybe present a more long-term solution to this.

[Brian Page]

Originally Posted by WastedYears

I did some measurements over a couple days to compare the Rolex watches in my collection.



I fully wound all watches and then measured them at 12 hour intervalls, with the last intervall for the two 32xx movement watches being at 20 hours. The lift angles were set at 52° for the older two and at 53° for the newer two. The dates for each watch are those on the warranty card, aka the month they were purchased at an AD.

Each data point is a rounded average of 10 - 12 individual measurements.

These are the results:



What spurned me to buy a timegrapher and take these measurements is a previous post I made in this thread early last week. I wrote three short paragraphs about my experiences with my BLRO, how it has been performing lately and a comparison to my other Rolex watches.
That post was deleted for some reason. Instead of reposting the same thing and risk getting it deleted again, I figured I would get proof of my statements as well as actual measurements rather than just the ballpark estimates I had in my head.



I think it's pretty obvious that there's an issue with my BLRO. The question I now ask myself is, do I bring it in to the AD (which re-opened again today after being in lockdown) have them re-adjust/repair it, only to have the same issue possibly pop up again somewhere down the line? Or do I wait until Rolex maybe present a more long-term solution to this.

Wait for a real solution rather than opening again and again.. - Try this, set it a minute fast, that will get you by for a while :) I have a 5513 that runs about 10 seconds fast a day. Granted, faster is better in my book but I'm not ready to send it off yet. I choose to set it a minute behind once a week.

And I'm pretty OCD...

[WastedYears]

Originally Posted by Brian Page

Wait for a real solution rather than opening again and again.. - Try this, set it a minute fast, that will get you by for a while :) I have a 5513 that runs about 10 seconds fast a day. Granted, faster is better in my book but I'm not ready to send it off yet. I choose to set it a minute behind once a week.

And I'm pretty OCD...

I too prefer a movement to be faster. I might do what you suggest and set it a minute fast, but that would likely also mean having to treat it like a Speedmaster and wind it every morning to make sure that it only loses around 8 seconds a day instead of 20.

Either way, I'm going to have a talk with the AD to see what they suggest before I consider handing it over to them.

[MikeyV]

IMO the only option is to wait for a permanent fix. Mine's been to Rolex once, and still runs like shit. My Warranty is up in about 29 months. I'll send it in again before the warranty runs out and hope for the best.

If there's no permanent fix, then some guy is just monkeying with your watch for no reason.

[HiBoost]

Originally Posted by Robf52

saxo i could say something nasty like look at the middle finger in my wave but I won't. I will say 2 final things: do TRF a favor and exit, and please do the world a favor and get psychiatric help.

In my opinion, all forms of written communication completely suck at conveying tone. I try to avoid emojis since they always seem to have an alternative interpretation. "Is this guy really giving me a thumbs up or is that a sarcastic 'nice job loser' jab?!" I don't think we need this thread to become hostile. I am genuinely happy to hear you (or anybody) have had such good luck with multiple 32xx watches.

[HiBoost]

Originally Posted by WastedYears

I think it's pretty obvious that there's an issue with my BLRO. The question I now ask myself is, do I bring it in to the AD (which re-opened again today after being in lockdown) have them re-adjust/repair it, only to have the same issue possibly pop up again somewhere down the line? Or do I wait until Rolex maybe present a more long-term solution to this.

Thanks for contributing!

Your situation is a tough call in my opinion. I tend to agree with others that it makes more sense to wait until later in the warranty period (or earlier if we get concrete validation of a fix) versus just opening now for a band-aid, but on the other hand, yours is drifting beyond a level of "academic concern" and into territory where it becomes a questionable timepiece. To just wait that situation out would be, to quote your username, "wasted years". It appears all your measurements were dial up, which would likely produce the best possible results. I'm betting if you did some vertical positions (crown down, etc) you'd see even lower amplitudes and worse timekeeping. Maybe you could try that and follow up on the BLRO?

[WastedYears]

Originally Posted by HiBoost

Thanks for contributing!

Your situation is a tough call in my opinion. I tend to agree with others that it makes more sense to wait until later in the warranty period (or earlier if we get concrete validation of a fix) versus just opening now for a band-aid, but on the other hand, yours is drifting beyond a level of "academic concern" and into territory where it becomes a questionable timepiece. To just wait that situation out would be, to quote your username, "wasted years". It appears all your measurements were dial up, which would likely produce the best possible results. I'm betting if you did some vertical positions (crown down, etc) you'd see even lower amplitudes and worse timekeeping. Maybe you could try that and follow up on the BLRO?

I have no intention of doing that as I am not a glutton for punishment