Patek Phillipe service estimate

[Alcan]

I just read a post on another forum from a watchmaker who recently sent a 119 year old Patek Phillipe 14k pocket watch back to Geneva for an estimate to repair it. As you probably know, PP will repair any watch they've ever sold, for a price.

The estimate came back at $13,000.00 with an ETA of approximately 40 MONTHS!!!

Kinda makes a Rolex $500 - $600 service seem like a bargain, huh?

[Dan Pierce]

Originally Posted by Alcan

I just read a post on another forum from a watchmaker who recently sent a 119 year old Patek Phillipe 14k pocket watch back to Geneva for an estimate to repair it. As you probably know, PP will repair any watch they've ever sold, for a price.

The estimate came back at $13,000.00 with an ETA of approximately 40 MONTHS!!!

Kinda makes a Rolex $500 - $600 service seem like a bargain, huh?

Al,
I had a working 1963 5406J w/ no complications, including no second hand, and the service quote was $1800.00 and would take 2 years.
dP
[not my pic, but same exact watch]

[Numismatist]

Kind of makes you pause when you think about buying one...

[topcat30093]

Well if anyting is worth doing at all, then its worth doing slooooowly! LOL

Then again who said that history was cheap?

Looking at me now at 52 its no wonder that an 119 year old watch will take so long and cost so much!

I wonder what type of watch it was?

[CPTL]

I'm assuming that Patek has a very limited and busy staff, since they produce so few pieces with so much personal attention--which explains the backlog. Maybe the price is up there because they can charge it: with a 2-4 year wait, it's not like they're hurting for business.

I wonder what Bob Ridley would charge, and how long it would take him to fix? Although 119 years old might be pushing his parts inventory a bit.

[Welshwatchman]

That sort of bill would blow my socks right off.

There's a lot to be said for the Panerai with the Unitas Movement.

Worst case scenario you can buy the entire movement for £125.00 and have the worn parts swapped over.

[Dr.B]

Patek who...?

[Dan Pierce]

Originally Posted by CPTL

I'm assuming that Patek has a very limited and busy staff, since they produce so few pieces with so much personal attention--which explains the backlog. Maybe the price is up there because they can charge it: with a 2-4 year wait, it's not like they're hurting for business.

I wonder what Bob Ridley would charge, and how long it would take him to fix? Although 119 years old might be pushing his parts inventory a bit.

Well, my watchmaker completed the service on mine in 4 weeks for a little over $300.00.
PP will custom make any part for any watch they've ever produced since 1883. And that can't be cheap.
dP

[Zirotti]

Almost any good watch makers can make any part they need too as well. I'm not sure if the OP's story is true, but if it is, that is a crime.

Sending a watch back to the OEM for service is overkill in most instances. Unless it's some crazy in-house movement..

[sakuraba]

That's it I'm sticking to Rolex!

[everose]

Incredible info Al.

So does this make the famous PP marketing ....."We will service anything" .......just marketing hype to embellish PP's image??

Many people have heard of that service promise and are thoroughly impressed by it!!

Do they get around this commitment by simply quoting outrageous prices/times on watches they do not want to work on?


I hope not!!!!


I also think the move to their own quality seal is questionable marketing.I think they should have worked with Geneva Seal to develop a new standard for whole,completed watches.

[R1@160@alltimes]

13k and 40 month wait?

[Rscmaine]

Originally Posted by R1@160@alltimes

13k and 40 month wait?

First they have to buy the mine then smelt the gold and steel...these things take time.

[brkanand]

I was keen on buying a vintage Patek Phillipe if that is within my budget+ savings. After reading all the posts here, I have lost interest in PP. I am happy with my two Rolexes and may add one more soon!

[Numismatist]

Originally Posted by brkanand

I was keen on buying a vintage Patek Phillipe if that is within my budget+ savings. After reading all the posts here, I have lost interest in PP. I am happy with my two Rolexes and may add one more soon!

Haven't lost interest...been SCARED away! ME too!

[Kapture1]

How much and how long would it take for RSC (as if they would touch it) to service a 119 year old Rolex??

[argee1977]

Originally Posted by Kapture1

How much and how long would it take for RSC (as if they would touch it) to service a 119 year old Rolex??

It shouldn't take or cost anyone any great amount. We're talking about a watch that was made 119 years ago with the limited technology and materials of the 19th century and would have taken a skilled watchmaker a couple of weeks to produce from start to finish, yes i know it might have taken a longer period, but if he was working on 20 watches at the time then the amount of time spent on each one would be a 20th of the time.

From what i've heard and read it sounds like companies like Patek and others don't really want to do the servicing work, it's not as good as just selling new watches, but due to their history and heritage they have too, but of course they won't make it easy or cheap to do.

I tend to think hearing stories like this just shows that there is no real want anymore to fix old things, an old pocket watch with quite a basic movement wouldn't be difficult to fix, even if they had to produce new parts it still wouldn't be difficult in todays age with CNC, computerised machinery and intricate machinery and equipment, 40 months to me is Patek making a statement of 'we can do it, but don't want to so heres a silly quote'.

[Earl Camembert]

Originally Posted by Alcan

Kinda makes a Rolex $500 - $600 service seem like a bargain, huh?

Let me say this about that. I took my 1968 DD into Rolex USA for service; they knew how old the watch was when I presented it to the front desk as the serial number is intact. They sent it into the back for a look see and I was told it was too old to service. Why did it have to go into the back I asked; then I was told yes they could service it at a cost of just under $30,000. That is all.

[flmprsrv]

It wasn't until about a dozen years ago that I discovered the pleasures of beautifully crafted watches, and went for a Patek. I have a 5039 that I used to generally wear daily. When I took it to my AD for service several years ago (it had to go to Patek) I was informed that it would be back in six to eight months -- the watches are totally broken down and reassembled. The concept of the length of time "out of service" shocked me. I had no idea. Walked out with a nice titanium Breitling Aerospace, which then became my daily wearer.

Just getting back into Rolexs (Rolei?) with a recent addition of a 116619, which is a new favorite. Hadn't had one since I was a teen and wore a Tudor, which I still have. The 11619 is a beautiful beast when compared to the diminutive Tudor.

[argee1977]

There was a good article on the subject of servicing older watches, it showed that servicing nowadays is treated as a hindrance to most manufacturers, rather than a service, because of the number of watches being produced yearly it means it's an ever increasing number of services that are required, but with companies focusing on making and designing new watches, production of these watches and so on it means very little room for servicing, even worse is the way they palm people off with seriously ridiculous service prices and timescales.

As i said above, i can't see how Patek could come up with a bill of $13000 for a pocket watch, i know they're great and all that, but i'd say that Patek probably spend around $13000 producing a watch that is worth $100,000 from scratch, and with a pocket watch you have almost everything to hand at the beginning, sure a few parts might be required, but in this day and age that shouldn't be difficult, or expensive.

If the above quote for a 1968 rolex DD is right then that again is just another fob off, rolex are good, but their movements are quite basic, their designs are also quite basic so $30,000 for what, at that price again Rolex would be capable of building from scratch a watch worth $100,000 easily, with a large percentage of that cost in platinum and diamonds, not just servicing an old watch!

[flmprsrv]

Might that $13,000 service have been inclusive of the fabrication costs of parts which necessitated replacement?

Originally Posted by argee1977

As i said above, i can't see how Patek could come up with a bill of $13000 for a pocket watch, i know they're great and all that, but i'd say that Patek probably spend around $13000 producing a watch that is worth $100,000 from scratch, and with a pocket watch you have almost everything to hand at the beginning, sure a few parts might be required, but in this day and age that shouldn't be difficult, or expensive.

[unknown]

Maybe 13 K is cheap ...

What if the watch is wortf a few hundred K ??? Thought about that ?

And about the 40 months ... Do you know Patek gets 40.000 per year which needs to be services (from simple Calatrava to the ultra complicated) At least they service what they made.

Rolex tells you to f*ck yourself !

[argee1977]

Originally Posted by unknown

Maybe 13 K is cheap ...

What if the watch is wortf a few hundred K ??? Thought about that ?

And about the 40 months ... Do you know Patek gets 40.000 per year which needs to be services (from simple Calatrava to the ultra complicated) At least they service what they made.

Rolex tells you to f*ck yourself !

Yeah, but in any other industry they would increase their staff, or allow sub-contractors to do the work, Patek don't appear to allow anyone else near their watches or train technicians.

If these companies truly want to use the taglines such as Patek do about a watch for life and fully supporting them through that time then they need to up their service skills a bit, no watch should take 40 months to fix, in that same time period Patek will have created tens of thousands of watches, including their most complicated pieces!

[Earl Camembert]

Originally Posted by argee1977

If the above quote for a 1968 rolex DD is right then that again is just another fob off, rolex are good, but their movements are quite basic, their designs are also quite basic so $30,000 for what, at that price again Rolex would be capable of building from scratch a watch worth $100,000 easily, with a large percentage of that cost in platinum and diamonds, not just servicing an old watch!

They would have insisted on replacing the bracelet, spring bars, the middle part of the case, crystal and dial; then of course the cleaning.
As I was leaving I was told I could buy a new watch for less; that is what Rolex really wants. I was given a list of non Rolex affiliated watchmakers that will service my watch. For $350 an independent watchmaker had my DD running like a Swiss Watch.

[RolexPete32]

Interesting read. I only wanted to add that PP makes about 44,000 watches a year my source is watchtime mag.

I think that if I had the kind of money to invest in a PP watch or at least wanted to invest I should say I would keep my money and stick with the Rolex watches I already own

[unknown]

Originally Posted by Blendhpi

Interesting read. I only wanted to add that PP makes about 44,000 watches a year my source is watchtime mag.

I think that if I had the kind of money to invest in a PP watch or at least wanted to invest I should say I would keep my money and stick with the Rolex watches I already own

It's imo a bit less
In 2008 it was around 40.000 per year, I have read that in 2009 they made 10% less (because of the economic crisis they didn't want to much stock)

Anyway , 12.000 of them are quartz ' all of them are ladies watches, mostly the twenty-4 .
So they make about 28.000 manual and automatic watches per year.
BUT, they need to service about 40.000 watches per year too. Some of them are a simple service, others are difficult restaurations

[rpryan55]

When Patek "services" a watch, they completely tear down the watch, replace any and all worn parts (and on a 110 year old watch, that would be a lot of parts), bring the outer and inner case to a like new condition, regulate and test the timepiece, and deliver the watch back to you as it would have been the day it left the factory 110 years ago. The work done is meticulous, and it is done by master watchmakers in their employ. It is hours and hours (and in the case of a 110 year old watch, weeks and weeks) of highly specialized work.

Frankly, I'm surprised the bill was so small. A 110 year old Patek would be worth quite a bit. Just my $0.02.

That said, however, Patek does a lot of things that I question (its own seal? Puh-leez!) and I don't know if I'll ever buy another.

[argee1977]

Originally Posted by rpryan55

When Patek "services" a watch, they completely tear down the watch, replace any and all worn parts (and on a 110 year old watch, that would be a lot of parts), bring the outer and inner case to a like new condition, regulate and test the timepiece, and deliver the watch back to you as it would have been the day it left the factory 110 years ago. The work done is meticulous, and it is done by master watchmakers in their employ. It is hours and hours (and in the case of a 110 year old watch, weeks and weeks) of highly specialized work.

Frankly, I'm surprised the bill was so small. A 110 year old Patek would be worth quite a bit. Just my $0.02.

That said, however, Patek does a lot of things that I question (its own seal? Puh-leez!) and I don't know if I'll ever buy another.

Pocket watches in the main are worth less than wrist watches, a 110 year old Patek pocket watch may only be worth a few thousand dollars. I hear what you're saying about replacing all worn parts, but if Patek can manufacture 40,000 watches every single year, then how can a master watchmaker, with all that machinery at hand take 40 months to service one watch, in that same period Patek have knocked out 133,000 watches, some of those the most complicated watches on the planet?

[argee1977]

I should have added that it's not specific to Patek, it's across the board, watch manufacturers are not really keeping the service centres at a decent level, and with each year passing it means more work for less people.

If Patek are putting out 40,000 watches each year, that's 200,000 over a 5 year period, if a quarter of those watches come back for service that's 10,000 services each year, add on the number of Pateks in circulation and it's quite a lot of servicing required, i just think that unless the companies can increase their ability to service, they should just bite the bullet and allow 'sub contractors' to do some of the work while still keeping it as a manufacturers service, because there are a lot of highly skilled watch repairers out there who could easily become a network for these companies, cutting down the time and expense of servicing to the customers.

[Earl Camembert]

Originally Posted by argee1977

I hear what you're saying about replacing all worn parts, but if Patek can manufacture 40,000 watches every single year, then how can a master watchmaker, with all that machinery at hand take 40 months to service one watch, in that same period Patek have knocked out 133,000 watches, some of those the most complicated watches on the planet?

The watches Patek makes new every year no matter how few are all brand new with parts in a drawer ready to go. With a 110 year old watch I would assume not one part is in a drawer ready to go. The watchmaker, yes a true "watchmaker" may have to hand make any number of parts as the machines Patek uses to make watches today will be of no use for a 110 year old watch.

Originally Posted by argee1977

I should have added that it's not specific to Patek, it's across the board, watch manufacturers are not really keeping the service centres at a decent level, and with each year passing it means more work for less people.

Rolex is the biggest offender in hoarding parts and not wanting/being able to handle all of the repair work. They go so far as to state if a Rolex watch has as much as a non Rolex spring bar it is a copyright violation and the watch can not be sold.

I had no problem buying a brand new genuine Omega bracelet from a parts suppler online. I don't even own an Omega it just happened to fit a Bergeon case I have. Bergeon is partly owned by Rolex BTW.