Looks like the GMT-IIC made a much better entrance than the new Sub-C!!

[JJ Irani]

Hi guys,

I remember the time when the new SS GMT-IIC was launched and it just came with one big bang...............and has certainly NOT left with any kind of whimper!!

Whereas, the long-awaited and much sought after Sub-C has yet to make any kind of impact on the Watch market or even most of the members here!!

It has come in with a whimper and is still tottering on a knife edge just because most guys still seem to prefer the older Sub 16610.

So there you have it, guys..................in terms of sales, I betcha the SS GMT-IIC would outshine and out-shadow the new Sub-C any day.

Opinions?

Cheers - JJ

[psv]

Jeez...

The watch/jewelry market is the softest it has been in many decades, it is a worldwide phenomenon. It has nothing do with this watch is better than that - I mean, many ADs even have Daytona's in stock! Heck, I know an AD that offered to drive 3 hrs to deliver a watch to me in order to get the sale!

Over time, the Sub-C will outsell the GMT 3 to 1. That has always been the case and will continue to be so, I suspect.

Namaste,

p.

[Shelby-villian]

Even a new Daytona would undersell the GMT in these economic times...

[JJ Irani]

Originally Posted by psv

Jeez...

The watch/jewelry market is the softest it has been in many decades, it is a worldwide phenomenon. It has nothing do with this watch is better than that - I mean, many ADs even have Daytona's in stock! Heck, I know an AD that offered to drive 3 hrs to deliver a watch to me in order to get the sale!

Over time, the Sub-C will outsell the GMT 3 to 1. That has always been the case and will continue to be so, I suspect.

Namaste,

p.

Thanks for your post, Patrick...............but I think I was referring more to the OOHS and AAAHS by our various members when the GMT-IIC came out as compared with the more lackadaisical attitude expressed by most of us for the new Sub-C.

JJ

[esm]

To be fair - most people were excited about the new supercase, new bracelet and clasp.... Hence the big hoopla when the GMTIIC was released.
There werent as much of that with the Sub-C because these two are quite similar to most normal people.....

[therolexguy]

I agree with you JJ, although I don't know why. I like the looks of both. It could be because the iconic Sub is SO popular that it's too big of a change for some people. They hit a homerun imo with the new GMT...I even bought one. I think the Sub is just as nice. If I had the $, I'd probably add it to my collection.

[Chipmunk]

I think it has a lot to do with price tag of the new SubC.

[JJ Irani]

Originally Posted by Chipmunk

I think it has a lot to do with price tag of the new SubC.

Well, the SS GMT-IIC and the new SS Sub-C seem to be in the same price bracket.

JJ

[rfknauss]

JJ, I really think that today's economic climate has a lot to do with it ...... where as when the new GMT first came out .... the global economy was in much better shape.

[JJ Irani]

Originally Posted by rfknauss

JJ, I really think that today's economic climate has a lot to do with it ...... where as when the new GMT first came out .... the global economy was in much better shape.

Hmmmmmmm..............that could be one of the reasons, Richard.

JJ

[therolexguy]

Originally Posted by rfknauss

JJ, I really think that today's economic climate has a lot to do with it ...... where as when the new GMT first came out .... the global economy was in much better shape.

I humbly disagree with my favorite bar tender Richard. I see a lot of GMTIIc selling both in the AD's and here on TRF. Not sure if we'd had enough time to make this comparison with the new Sub yet. Who knows?

[The GMT Master]

Well, let me put it this way, where I work, we can't seem to keep a steel Sub or GMT in stock for more than a few days at the moment. I'm not disappointed with the way the Sub is selling at the moment - maybe the pre-launch hype raised everyone's expectations too much?

[Chipmunk]

Originally Posted by JJ Irani

Well, the SS GMT-IIC and the new SS Sub-C seem to be in the same price bracket.

JJ

Exactly......... they're pretty much in the same price range, but I don't think that it should be.

[JJ Irani]

Originally Posted by Chipmunk

Exactly......... they're pretty much in the same price range, but I don't think that it should be.

Agreed.........the SS GMT-IIC should cost an extra 50 cents!!

[Chipmunk]

Originally Posted by JJ Irani

Agreed.........the SS GMT-IIC should cost an extra 50 cents!!

[SaddleSC]

It may be that the GMTIIC launched at $5850 USD, which is a lot more palatable for the feature set that it offers then the current list price of the new SubC.

[Casey VP-26]

Just a thought, but if the new sub-c does not go over well I wonder if Rolex would consider just to keep on producing the 16610 classic. This would not be a big problem to them, maybe just eat a little crow. Probably to early to tell. Of course it would have to be cheaper. I also still have concern of the durability of the new Ceramic bezel, and the cost of its replacement.

[Dan2010]

Originally Posted by Casey VP-26

Just a thought, but if the new sub-c does not go over well I wonder if Rolex would consider just to keep on producing the 16610 classic. This would not be a big problem to them, maybe just eat a little crow. Probably to early to tell. Of course it would have to be cheaper. I also still have concern of the durability of the new Ceramic bezel, and the cost of its replacement.

To your first point, I no way see them going back to producing the 16610 no more than I see them producing 5513s ever again.

As for the durability of the ceramic bezel only time will tell but I suspect it will far outlast the old bezels. Imagine looking at the Sub C in 25 years and the bezel has no scratches, no UV damage, etc. The whole watch in theory should look nearly brand new.

[Dan Pierce]

I think it has to do with the timing of the release of each reference. The thicker lugs, milled clasp, etc have already been experienced with the GMT IIc and are consequently less impact full with the release of the new Sub.
dP

[Casey VP-26]

Originally Posted by Dan2010

To your first point, I no way see them going back to producing the 16610 no more than I see them producing 5513s ever again.

As for the durability of the ceramic bezel only time will tell but I suspect it will far outlast the old bezels. Imagine looking at the Sub C in 25 years and the bezel has no scratches, no UV damage, etc. The whole watch in theory should look nearly brand new.

Thanks DAN2010, but I did say just a thought, and I believe the 16610 is a lot closer in the current pipe line then the 5513. As far as all my thoughts are concerned, including the ceramic bezel durability you are correct ONLY TIME WILL TELL.

[Macro80]

You may well be right JJ. I saw two 16610's in London this week selling for £200 over the last MSRP.
I think the price for the new Sub is a bridge too far for an uncomplicated SS watch in my opinion.
Not just that the new one has a bracelet out of proportion to its lugs, when i saw one in the flesh that put me off.

[spuds]

1: There was simply a lot more money about when the 116710 was released then there is now.


2: There's not the same "hoo-hah" as when the 116710 was released because everyone (WIS & General Public alike) are now used to seeing the Super-Case & ceramic bezel.


3: We WIS's knew almost exactly how the 116610 was going to look before it came out so there was always going to be less "WOW!-factor" anyway.



With respect it ain't rocket-science JJ mate......

[steubi1]

I own both, and I have been quite enthusiastic about the new SubC when I bought it two months ago.

But then I realised: I do not really like it. I mean, it is a perfect watch, but the wider lugs, the blocky maxi case, the clasp which is too large in my opinion: It simply does not speak to my heart.

Then I bought a brandnew 16610 of the latest production series, and my world is OK again.

Sometimes it is more important to touch our hearts than to launch a technically perfect product...I am engineer BTW.

Regards
Tom

[R1@160@alltimes]

Originally Posted by Dan Pierce

I think it has to do with the timing of the release of each reference. The thicker lugs, milled clasp, etc have already been experienced with the GMT IIc and are consequently less impact full with the release of the new Sub.
dP

x2 My thinking is along the same lines. The enhencements on the SubC were already introduced on GMTIIC several years prior.

[gazp]

one of my trader friends rang me to say that he had the new ceramic sub last monday .

he said he would call round with the watch and he would leave it with me for a couple of days to decide .

we agreed a cost to change figure against my tt datejust on super jubilee and i thought that it was going to be a formality .

anyway i tried the watch on and ...................was not blown away at all !

the datejust looked much more classy on and felt more comfortable too and the sub c looked ok but no better than the old sub date but was £800 more expensive and for what , solid middle links , ceramic bezel ,new clasp ,wider lugs, blue parachrome hairspring etc etc but for £800 more !!!!!!!

for the first time ever i did not commit to the watch and kept my dj tt .....for now lol !

the watch is not worth the extra premium IMHO over the old 16610 and will never be the iconic new style rolex , it has lost the title to the new GMT ceramic !

however the old submariner will always be THE ICONIC ALL TIME SPORTS ROLEX !

sorry if i have offended anyone

Just my opinion Guys

[spuds]

Originally Posted by gazp

.....the watch is not worth the extra premium IMHO over the old 16610 and will never be the iconic new style rolex , it has lost the title to the new GMT ceramic !

however the old submariner will always be THE ICONIC ALL TIME SPORTS ROLEX !

sorry if i have offended anyone

Just my opinion Guys

[andrew79]

Lol

[rob]

JJ,

I agree there was the mystic of the GMT II-C, because of the release of the Gold in 2006. We all waited for the release of the SS in 2007. When it finally came the was already a waiting list every where! you didn't see one in a AD on display for about 6 months after. The new case, band, crown, maxi dial, Ceramic, and new green GMT- hand, and oh the PCL's. Then the release of the DSSD, gave way to the band improvements, increased WR, and Ceramic. By the time the Sub-C got here the economy was already hit, and visually they kinda all look the same. It's just a matter of function, comfort, tradition, bias, or budget. JMHO

[sakuraba]

I still stand by my original assertion that the II-C is the most beautiful modern reference. IMHO the Sub-C comes close, but fails to drop the II-C from its pedestal.

[JJ Irani]

Originally Posted by sakuraba

I still stand by my original assertion that the II-C is the most beautiful modern reference. IMHO the Sub-C comes close, but fails to drop the II-C from its pedestal.

Hey Jib,

You sound like Mark Anthony giving his big speech over Caesar's body!!