How much are papers worth?

[chrisshank]

All else being equal, how much do you lose if you don't have papers for a watch? Asked another way, how much are papers worth to the overall value of the watch? I've found essentially a LNIB GMTIIc and am wondering how fairly priced it is ....thanks all!

C

[Yazo]

For vintage provenance will add quite the premium.... I've seen it add 10-15k before.

For modern... not so much.... if any.

[therolexguy]

I think papers mean less for a newer, current model Rolex. The older the model, the more the paperwork is worth...imo.

[BarkMaster]

Means nothing to me and had no part in my decision.

[snowbird]

I know some will argue that papers are meaningless as they only apply to the original owner. However from what I see watches with papers seem to be easier to sell. Appraisers prefer to see papers too.

My guesstimate is that papers add about $500 plus possibly a faster sale.

I'm talking about modern. For vintage it seems like it's less common for papers to still be with a watch.

[Al1969]

I think I'd definitely hesitate in laying down $$$ for a watch without papers. I say they provide some "peace of mind".

[HL65]

I think as Yazo said--for vintage--I have seen it add 10k-15k plus. For newer-probably 300-500 dollars. I think what it does though is it eliminates a lot of prospective buyers who won't buy unless it is a complete set regardless of what the true value of the papers are. Some people do not care--a lot do--so it will clearly limit your prospective market if you ever planned on selling or wanted to.

[Tools]

If somebody wanted to charge me 300 to 500 bucks because of some outdated papers....... I'd tell them to keep their papers, I'll just take the watch, thank you..

[ibramr]

I am privy to an experience of a friend in buying a used 14060 in the A and P vintage range a year or so ago. Papers added between $200 - $300 to the price of around $300. For him, Papers complete the package, and he sees the papers as a partial guarantee of authenticity. Other in the forum may opine, of course. Best of luck.

[Speed]

The endless debate...

if you know the watch is authentic and you will never
sell it, you dont need papers.

[panxiaoyan]

paper make us sleep well if even though it does not prove the watch is 100% AUTHENTIC until u bring it to a rolex ad and open it up but still it will give u some idea that the watch where it came from ? and etc . my opinion will be giving a little bit more then getting some stolen goods .

[Warnsboy]

Originally Posted by Yazo

For vintage provenance will add quite the premium.... I've seen it add 10-15k before.

For modern... not so much.... if any.

But....modern will become "Vintage".........I try not to buy without papers and accessories. Rolex Service Center papers will add value as well, so if you buy without, and need to service, send it to an RSC. Then, you have papers.

[Chipmunk]

$300-500 from what I've noticed.

[Frogman4me]

For vintage I have seen 50% added to the market price without papers.

[Clay]

Years ago you would expect to pay 10 to 20% more for a VINTAGE watch with original papers....
Today I see some people asking as much as 50% more for a VINTAGE watch with original papers....
Insanity in my opinion.....
A modern Rolex...Hard to say.....10% maybe????
They do seem to be easier to sell with original paper work....
One piece of paper that I think is worth having, especially with a vintage piece is recent Rolex Service papers..........
Original Chronometer certificates can and have been "faked"...
But you can always call Rolex and verify that the service was indeed done......

[DG123]

What exactly are "papers" ?
I've seen reference to box, tags, and papers. I know what a box and hang tags are, but not sure what exactly constitutes "papers".

Originally Posted by chrisshank

All else being equal, how much do you lose if you don't have papers for a watch? Asked another way, how much are papers worth to the overall value of the watch? I've found essentially a LNIB GMTIIc and am wondering how fairly priced it is ....thanks all!

C

[Tijssan]

Originally Posted by DG123

What exactly are "papers" ?
I've seen reference to box, tags, and papers. I know what a box and hang tags are, but not sure what exactly constitutes "papers".

warranty card for 1, booklets etc for 2

[chrisshank]

By papers I meant the original chrono cert, booklets, warrantee card and any service papers.

[NW_watch_fan]

I simply won't buy an expensive watch without papers. The whole question of 'where did they go?' can never be satisfactorily answered for me. Oh, I lost them. Who looses important documentation on a multi-thousand dollar purchase? Anyway, there are legitimate reasons to not have papers - but, I'm not buying the watch.

[Cannop]

Two Subs, same year, same condition, same spec, same price. One has no history and no papers. The other has a service record, original certificates, receipts, gaurantees etc. Which would you buy? It may be that papers don't make any monetary difference to the value of a watch, but there's no doubt they make a watch easier to sell!

[conrail]

Originally Posted by Tools

If somebody wanted to charge me 300 to 500 bucks because of some outdated papers....... I'd tell them to keep their papers, I'll just take the watch, thank you..

Papers to me on a newer watch are meaningless. So don't try and build them into the price of the watch. All else being equal, I'll buy from the seller who has "discounted" his watch by $3-500--or whatever--because of lack of papers. For vintage, however, I think Yazo is right - def nice to have the complete kit if you're shelling out $20 or $30k. Wouldn't stop me from getting the vintage though, assuming I can't find a seller w/ the papers.

[Rolex Portugal]

Talking about recent models, I wouldn't get one without papers... There is a wide variety of models in the market & for sure a "full package" is worth more than just the watch. Try re-selling & you'll see.
BRGDS

[Gottog]

No need for people to be smug about it. Let the market decide.
For modern watches I think 10-15% premium is fair.
For vintage watches,, the sky's the limit.

So yes, that piece of paper does have "value". Maybe not to you. But if you're trying to sell a watch, the "value" of that piece of paper is quite apparent.

[padi56]

Originally Posted by Tools

If somebody wanted to charge me 300 to 500 bucks because of some outdated papers....... I'd tell them to keep their papers, I'll just take the watch, thank you..

Have to agree with my colleague Larry after the warranty period the papers are just that, a bit of paper or card.Having papers don't mean a lot today only to the original buyer,fact the papers were the easiest to fake.IMHO far too much enthuses is put on box and papers,a lot more by some than checking if they have a genuine watch.And anyone paying more $300-$500 for say the same genuine watch same condition as one without outdated papers and packaging box must be sixpence short of a shilling.Still today there are many who pay ridiculous prices for hangs tags,plastic bezel protectors, boxes, and other free Rolex marketing Tat.None of this sort of stuff was around about 15- 20 years ago,must have the latest case stamp,loupe checking,worring over holograms other stickers etc.Afraid today there are so many Rolex myths around the internet about the importance of this and that,and now all this has mainly put up the prices of Rolex watches.Myself you can keep your out of date papers and the box, myself would rather save some cash anyday and just buy a genuine watch.

[HL65]

I would say for those who don't care about papers--save the money. For those who do--pay the extra money. The market does differentiate betwen the two and offer each camp an option regardless of either's position.

[Brian J]

I'd say 5-10%.

As a buyer it's important to me, not the actual piece of paper but the history it adds to the watch, they help prove the authenticity and it's less likely it's stolen etc.

[enronforme]

I purchased my SS Daytona from Greg (Mosco) without papers- made a heck of a difference in the price, I got an appraisal for it, and I'll get papers when I have it serviced in 5 or so years. No brainer for me. Remember- buy the seller!
Bob

[conrail]

Originally Posted by enronforme

I purchased my SS Daytona from Greg (Mosco) without papers- made a heck of a difference in the price, I got an appraisal for it, and I'll get papers when I have it serviced in 5 or so years. No brainer for me. Remember- buy the seller!
Bob

[G.D.BeanCounter]

The question I have: "Are you saying you are paying more for the watch because it has box and papers, or are you paying less because it doesn't?" If the market price is Y, which includes box & papers, and someone sells their watch for X (lower than Y) because there is a perceived disadvantage, then whose to say X is the right price and Y is a premium or the contrary?

[mike]

Originally Posted by Clay

Years ago you would expect to pay 10 to 20% more for a VINTAGE watch with original papers....
Today I see some people asking as much as 50% more for a VINTAGE watch with original papers....
Insanity in my opinion.....
A modern Rolex...Hard to say.....10% maybe????
They do seem to be easier to sell with original paper work....
One piece of paper that I think is worth having, especially with a vintage piece is recent Rolex Service papers..........
Original Chronometer certificates can and have been "faked"...
But you can always call Rolex and verify that the service was indeed done......

Spot on. For some collectors the quest for the "complete set" is a goal. Goals aren't cheap.

Reguarding modern it would be something I would prefer on the LV.