Rolex or Seiko??

[ElPrimero]

There's currently a really interesting thread regarding the Grand Seiko.

Unbeknown to myself certain Seiko models can reach prices upwards of £100,000 and possess obvious 1st rate movements and build quality.

What interests me, is, though I've now been educated as to the brands quality, I personally, would never consider buying or investing in a Seiko, purely because of it's brand name and the widespread stigma that goes with it.

So my question is...

Price tag aside, would you ever consider buying Seiko over Rolex?

[Singslinger]

What's the "widespread stigma'' associated with Seiko?

[The GMT Master]

I would consider it - the Grand Seikos are in a completely different league to the standard Seikos, and probably shouldn't be spoken about in the same breath. Grand Seikos are hand made, and tested to far more stringent accuracy standards than any Swiss watch - the quality is certainly on a similar level to Rolex. Would I buy one myself? If a service network was set up in the UK, then yes, but until then, it would be too much hassle to sort out if there was a problem, I had enough problems getting parts for a Seiko Monster.

[HL65]

Great thread on a Rolex Forum. Answer: Rolex! Would never even try a Seiko on--Grand or not--not a chance!! Sorry----Rolex all the way!!

[RJC]

Had a look at the GS website and they are good looking pieces.

Would I choose one instead of a Rolex? No.... all I can think about at the mo is a Sub C LV!!!

[Watch Professor]

I would select a Seiko in addition to a Rolex, but not over one.

[kkwn98]

Originally Posted by ElPrimero

There's currently a really interesting thread regarding the Grand Seiko.

Unbeknown to myself certain Seiko models can reach prices upwards of £100,000 and possess obvious 1st rate movements and build quality.

What interests me, is, though I've now been educated as to the brands quality, I personally, would never consider buying or investing in a Seiko, purely because of it's brand name and the widespread stigma that goes with it.

So my question is...

Price tag aside, would you ever consider buying Seiko over Rolex?

No; I'd buy both. Why should the choice be restricted to "either or"?

But, as asked already, what is this "widespread stigma that goes with it" that you speak of?

[padi56]

Originally Posted by Singslinger

What's the "widespread stigma'' associated with Seiko?

X2. Please enlighten me too well there is Seiko and Seiko high end watches IMHO as good if not better than many high end Swiss.But some high end watch wearers today just wear a brand and not the watch.Remember this fact before the Swiss COSC was formed in 1973 as it is now there were Observatory testing and competitions to a much higher standard


And during the entire 23 years of testing, 5093 wristwatches were submitted for certification, and only 3253 were passed, about 64%, today around 94% pass the COSC test first time. Just a few manufacturers participated, and only Omega and Patek did so every year. The others were: Rolex, Zenith, Longines, Movado, Vacheron & Constantin, Ulysse Nardin, Cyma and Favre-Leuba, along with numerous independent professional watchmakers.That was until Seiko Grand come on the scene and started to wipe the floor with the Swiss mechanical watch industry.Only 2 brands in the + 23 years of the competitions submitted movements of only serial production for retail sale(Seiko and GP).All others were specially made movements just for the competition.And it was ended by the swiss in the early 1970s after two straight wins by the Japanese straight off the production line Seiko Grand watches.

Now Seiko first entered the competition,with other watches from all over the world,including most of the Swiss high end brands.For a much higher standard than the COSC,the Astronomical Observatory Authorisation Chronometer Standard (+/- 2/3 seconds/day) Out of many watches summited only two passed this test a Seiko Grand just a production model, and Giraud Peregaux this time a specially build for the test model.And in the late 1960s there were only two companies, who could sell watches, passed astronomical observatory authorisation Chronometer in those days. ---Seiko and Giraud Peregaux.As the Japanese had dominated in the late 1960s and the two preceding events, in 1972 some Swiss watch manufacturers demanded the end of the observatory competitions,and it was ended in 1973,thats when the lesser watered down Swiss COSC was founded.

But even today there is a misunderstanding in some, that people assume Seiko equals affordable/cheap. Most are undoubtedly referring to the Seiko's normally found on the street in Europe and the Americas. And they are definitely a good, fantastic, value for the money and if it was not for these watches many could never afford a mechanical watch. But you can also get vintage, and new high end Seiko's, which, until the advent of the Internet, were relatively unknown outside of Japan. And a few other far east Asian countries (Taiwan, HK, Singapore ETC.) "King Seiko","Grand Seiko", and "Seiko Credor", you will find in these watches that, movement and case finish wise, easily compete with the best of mass produced swiss watches, i.e. Omega, Rolex, etc. As for style… well, that is in the eye of the beholder.,at best they can be considered very conservative. But it really depends which movements,and watches you are comparing to. What this all boils down to is: Seiko makes some truly outstanding products, and some mediocre ones, just like many other companies but have never heard of any stigma over Seiko watches but have heard plenty of praise..

[NAVY]

Originally Posted by ElPrimero

There's currently a really interesting thread regarding the Grand Seiko.

Unbeknown to myself certain Seiko models can reach prices upwards of £100,000 and possess obvious 1st rate movements and build quality.

What interests me, is, though I've now been educated as to the brands quality, I personally, would never consider buying or investing in a Seiko, purely because of it's brand name and the widespread stigma that goes with it.
So my question is...

Price tag aside, would you ever consider buying Seiko over Rolex?

You just knew I'd reply !!

Seriously, what is the importance of the "brand name" on the dial? Give that some thought! Rolex is probably the best known "brand name" that non-WIS think of when they think of "luxury watches". Not disputing that.

What if, for discussion purposes, they were actually just "OK" watches; however, you buy into them b/c of public perception and want to be known as the guy with the Rolex watch!

From your above statement, one would think you fall into that category - brand name, stigma etc.

On the other hand, you have Seiko - wide range of styles and prices. The GS models, for discussion purposes are in similar price ranges of the SS Rolex models. As you are now educated in the quality of GS, why would you limit your possibilities of ownership b/c of the "Seiko" name and your perceived "stigma" ????

If you had said, I don't like the Seiko styling, size etc, etc, etc that would be a genuine, fair answer not open to discussion. But your reasons put you in the camp of why many WIS object to "Rolex Owners" not "Rolex the watch"

Any true WIS is open minded - they may love one brand or more. However, they don't base their dislikes on what others may think. IMHO, from your comments, I think you do - now don't get too excited - your comments seem to back this up !!

To answer your question,

1. there are some Seiko's I'd buy over certain Rolexs
2. there are some Rolex I'd buy over certain Seiko's
3. And I have ...

[ElPrimero]

Originally Posted by kkwn98

But, as asked already, what is this "widespread stigma that goes with it" that you speak of?

That to the everyday person, Seiko is considered a 'non-luxury' brand, similar to that of Casio, Accurist and Sekonda

[Gerardus]

Nope!

[ElPrimero]

Originally Posted by NAVY

You just knew I'd reply !!

Seriously, what is the importance of the "brand name" on the dial? Give that some thought! Rolex is probably the best known "brand name" that non-WIS think of when they think of "luxury watches". Not disputing that.

What if, for discussion purposes, they were actually just "OK" watches; however, you buy into them b/c of public perception and want to be known as the guy with the Rolex watch!

From your above statement, one would think you fall into that category - brand name, stigma etc.

On the other hand, you have Seiko - wide range of styles and prices. The GS models, for discussion purposes are in similar price ranges of the SS Rolex models. As you are now educated in the quality of GS, why would you limit your possibilities of ownership b/c of the "Seiko" name and your perceived "stigma" ????

If you had said, I don't like the Seiko styling, size etc, etc, etc that would be a genuine, fair answer not open to discussion. But your reasons put you in the camp of why many WIS object to "Rolex Owners" not "Rolex the watch"

Any true WIS is open minded - they may love one brand or more. However, they don't base their dislikes on what others may think. IMHO, from your comments, I think you do - now don't get too excited - your comments seem to back this up !!

To answer your question,

1. there are some Seiko's I'd buy over certain Rolexs
2. there are some Rolex I'd buy over certain Seiko's
3. And I have ...

Yes, I know it shouldn't, but the brand name and history does matter to me.

I never second glance a Seiko, but I do with other quality brands which I know and love.

With my new found knowledge, I may, however begin to change. Who knows?

[NAVY]

Originally Posted by SteelerFan1965

Great thread on a Rolex Forum. Answer: Rolex! Would never even try a Seiko on--Grand or not--not a chance!! Sorry----Rolex all the way!!

May I ask your reason?

Would you "try on" another brand or heaven forbid, purchase another brand besides Rolex?

Just asking !!

[NAVY]

Originally Posted by ElPrimero

That to the everyday person, Seiko is considered a 'non-luxury' brand, similar to that of Casio, Accurist and Sekonda

Hey ElPrimero - I'm that "everyday person" ... I think my GS is could possibly fall into that "luxury category" along with my Rolex.

[kkwn98]

Originally Posted by ElPrimero

That to the everyday person, Seiko is considered a 'non-luxury' brand, similar to that of Casio, Accurist and Sekonda

So being a "non-luxury brand" is a stigma?

You like what you like based strictly on what the "everyday person" (who in this case is very uninformed) likes or thinks?

Okay...

[PhilM]

Have no issues with either, a couple of friends have both modern Rolex and a few GS and the GS really are great watches, I wouldn't knock them until you've handled one

[Jason71]

Originally Posted by Singslinger

What's the "widespread stigma'' associated with Seiko?

IMHO, the "stigma" that exists is due to the fact that seiko makes a wide range of watches, and unfortunately this stigma is related to their inexpensive line of watches. PADI speaks of these being a good value for the money, and many of them are a good value. However, there are quite a number that are not a good value and are just plain cheap. My wife had one.

I could never purchase a high-end seiko just because of the bad experience we had with my wife's watch. You know........it is kinda like the situation where you wouldn't name your kid a certain name because you equate it with one of the kids that was a bully in grade school. However, I have owned several SKX models and they are an extremely good value for the money.

[NAVY]

Originally Posted by kkwn98

So being a "non-luxury brand" is a stigma?

You like what you like based strictly on what the "everyday person" (who in this case is very uninformed) likes or thinks?

Okay...

I think he wants to be known as the Rolex guy as he strolls down the aisle at the local mall - "Hey, there goes El ... I wonder if he's wearing his GS ... oops, his Rolex today?"

[JimSnyder]

I would take a vintage Seiko any day. Rolex may be my love but Seiko is my mistress

[Art 1]

I would never consider a Seiko over a Rolex, never. I know, Seiko is in house, makes their own oils, blah, blah, blah. If someone wants to spend thousands of dollars on one good for them, not me.

[ElPrimero]

Originally Posted by kkwn98

So being a "non-luxury brand" is a stigma?

You like what you like based strictly on what the "everyday person" (who in this case is very uninformed) likes or thinks?

Okay...

What I'm saying............... Is that a person with little or NO knowledge of the SEIKO brand would probably NOT be aware they produce higher quality models, priced over and above $500 and hence, don't fall in the luxury brand catagory!!

[ElPrimero]

Originally Posted by NAVY

I think he wants to be known as the Rolex guy as he strolls down the aisle at the local mall - "Hey, there goes El ... I wonder if he's wearing his GS ... oops, his Rolex today?"

[NMS75]

Nothing wrong with Seiko, especially their high-end watches. Until I moved to buying luxury watches Seiko was my main watch brand. That said, its all about what you want the watch for. I wear my Sub and GMT all the time - extremely happy with them wouldn't want to wear anything else. However, I have recently purchased a relatively cheap (RRP £250) Tissot PRC 200. A lovely watch for the price and now the one I wear when I am doing things where I'd wouldn't want to risk one of my Rolex watches - usually getting drunk on a night out with the lads in dodgy pubs and bars

Personally I wouldn't chose a Seiko over a Rolex but I'd seriously consider one to have in 'addition' tomy Rolex watches.

M

[vukotab]

Well...I must say that I`m huge fan and admirer of both manufactures.
I have my granddad`s Seiko Pressmatic(watch very similar to Grand Seiko line, but little more affordable at the time), with chronometer-grade 33 jewels movement and VERY slow beat (19000bph), and after 45 years that watch still looks and works amazing.
Today, Seiko produces some really fantastic watches, for example Marinemaster is in every way on pair with Sub, and there are Credor models, GS, Ananta line with Spring Drive movements...
What I`m trying to say is that I would buy watch that I like, no matter it`s price or prestige. And no, I would not buy Marinemaster rather than Sub, I like Sub much more, but I would rather go for Ananta Spring Drive chronograph than for DSSD.
So, for me, the price and holding value is irrelevant, both brands produces high quality watches, all is the matter of personal taste.

[WJGESQ]

Originally Posted by ElPrimero

That to the everyday person, Seiko is considered a 'non-luxury' brand, similar to that of Casio, Accurist and Sekonda

Absolutely.

Seiko conjures up images of mass produced, commodity style gadgets. It certainly is not a brand of exclusivity.

[kkwn98]

Originally Posted by WJGESQ

Absolutely.

Seiko conjures up images of mass produced, commodity style gadgets. It certainly is not a brand of exclusivity.

It's all relative. At approximately 800,000 watches per year, the haute horlogerie crowd might well take the same view of a certain brand we all admire and talk about on this board...

[wokafu]

call me shallow...but i wont wanna hear some of my friends said: you spent 10k on a SEIKO..?? not degrading the SEIKO brand..they made really good tool watch...but the name ROLEX just seem more 'expensive'

[esm]

Originally Posted by wokafu

call me shallow...but i wont wanna hear some of my friends said: you spent 10k on a SEIKO..?? not degrading the SEIKO brand..they made really good tool watch...but the name ROLEX just seem more 'expensive'

Okay - you made me to do
It.

You are shallow

[ElPrimero]

Originally Posted by wokafu

call me shallow...but i wont wanna hear some of my friends said: You spent 10k on a seiko..?? Not degrading the seiko brand..they made really good tool watch...but the name rolex just seem more 'expensive'

x 2

[wokafu]

Originally Posted by esm

Okay - you made me to do
It.

You are shallow