Rolex a bit too expensive or Panerai a bit too cheap

[L-16610]

On another forum I read a post about the Panerai listprice versus the Rolex listprice.
And I think this post had a lot of valid points
What do you tink about it, Is Panerai a bargain today ?

This is a copy paste of the actual post





First thought ' ofcourse NOT' Why would we want to pay more for our watches. I wish the 372 was 6000 and not 6900 euro When we need to pay we all want to pay the cheapest price.
But look at 2 icons. The Rolex submariner and the Panerai 111
In 2002 The Panerai 111 was yours for 3000 euro, also in 2002 the Rolex submariner was yours for 3900 euro. I know, there is a difference between a Rolex 16610 and a newer 116610 but let's be honest, basically it is the same watch. A ceramic bezel and a solid bracelet won't cost more than 100 euro (production cost)
Today we can still buy both icons. For the PAM111 you'll need to pay 4100 euro........ for the Rolex sub 6250 euro........ Hmmm Panerai became 30% more expensive in 9 years, Rolex added 60% over the same period !
The Panerai 111 should cost 4800 euro and not 4100 if they did the same as Rolex. And I do have the impression most brands became a lot more expensive since 2002. I mean a lot more than 30%
Another example is the new 372. Look at the 127 which costed 6900 euro in 2002. A simple watch with a cheap ETA movement. Today the 372 with a totally new case and a completely inhouse made movement will cost you exactly the same ... 6900 euro. I know, it has only 2 hands and not 3 hands but that won't make the difference, does it ? So Today you can get a GREAT watch with a nice inhouse movement and a new stunning case for the same price as what you would have paid 9 years ago for something which looks similar but with a much cheaper movement.
Imagine the 372 would be 30 or even 60% more expensive than the 127 in 2002 ...
I'm glad Panerai still offers us great watches for very acceptable prices
I hope they don't read this post in Switserland / Italy LOLOLOL

[Mike1066]

I think Rolex prices have gotten to the point where they have priced a lot of people out of it if you are going to buy new, from an AD. And that is a shame. I wish they were more attainable and that, if you worked hard and saved, you could responsibly get one as a reward. But at the current MSRP prices, that just doesn't seem too feasible anymore.

[gimpex]

Or you could say Panerai was too expensive in 2002

[htc8p]

right now they are both overpriced.

both their prices have reached the threshold that i may have to put my watch money elsewhere.

[dddrees]

Both manufactures have watches which are a bit lower in price, and those which are a quite a bit higher in price. Nobody is twisting anybodys arm to by the product. Luxury watches are luxury items. If they are too much then both manufactures will adjust there prices accordingly to meet there target goals but one expects to pay a much higher price for a luxury item. I don't see these items going down in price anytime soon, in fact I think they will go much higher.

There are many more threads covering this very thing, conduct a search if you are interested.

[mike]

Ha! You'll get no arguement from me about the price of either brand.

Bit of a sore point with me right now is the after sales service. Last Rolex I sent to RSC for a complete service took about 4 weeks.

In Feb. I bought a 321 that was running 45 seconds fast. Because it has the new 9000 movement it had to go to Panerai for regulation. That was in Feburary---I'd sure like to have it back.

[esm]

Originally Posted by L-16610

I wish the 372 was 6000 and not 6900 euro

that says it all, isn't? Panerai isn't cheap.

lets look at 116610LN @ £4950 and PAM210 @ £3200. yes, there is a £17xx difference in price, but imo, you'd get loads more from the 116610LN than a 2-hand, manual wind, non-COSC PAM210 with a non-in-house movement on leather strap.

i think it is abit unfair to compare the pricing structure of Rolex and Panerai. for the starters, Rolex is a more mass-produced manufacture whereas Panerai tends to "limit" their production.

who knows how many 116610LN are produced per year, but one thing for sure is that it'd be more than 500 pieces which is the production number of PAM210 per year (in the recent years at least).

i also think that Panerai is quite smart in limiting their numbers to be able to drive the demand and prices up in the grey market. look at their modern limited edition pieces, sometimes the price in the grey market can go up almost (if not already) 100% of the original MSRP - im sure most people are aware of that.

i love both brands - i have more Rolex watches than Panerai watches at the moment and is always on the look out for more Panerai watches into my collection. would personally love a 232 and a 249, but they are still "stupidly" priced at the moment (imo anyway...). with Panerai watches, i much prefer those pieces with lower production numbers per year.... just me, no other reasons (okay, another one is that i wont bump too many in the wild )

i'm sure both hardcore Rolex and Paerai fans will pay whatever prices they need to pay to get whichever piece(s) they want at the end of the day.

on the other hand.... if you were comparing the MSRP of Rolex and Omega watches.... it'd be a different discussion



/i will get my coat

[L-16610]

Originally Posted by mike

Ha! You'll get no arguement from me about the price of either brand.

Bit of a sore point with me right now is the after sales service. Last Rolex I sent to RSC for a complete service took about 4 weeks.

In Feb. I bought a 321 that was running 45 seconds fast. Because it has the new 9000 movement it had to go to Panerai for regulation. That was in Feburary---I'd sure like to have it back.

indeed, Panerai service is a disaster compared to Rolex
It takes way too long
But look at Patek, thats even worse

[L-16610]

Originally Posted by esm

.

who knows how many 116610LN are produced per year, but one thing for sure is that it'd be more than 500 pieces which is the production number of PAM210 per year (in the recent years at least).

/i will get my coat

But that would make the Rolex a lot cheaper
The more they make and sell, the cheaper it gets to make them

[mike]

Originally Posted by L-16610

indeed, Panerai service is a disaster compared to Rolex
It takes way too long
But look at Patek, thats even worse

Yeah,...you got me there.

[mactrack]

I reckon Panerai make Rolex look like good value when compared like for like. For example a GMT with an in-house movement and bracelet is £4,900 for a SS GMTIIc or £6,100 for a PAM 329.

[UJU]

I can't see Panerai being a bargain using ETA handwould movements & leather straps.
As for a PAM on bracelet, with an auto in-house movement the price is a completely different story.
Say the PAM 312. This compares a lot better with the 16610. The price is more or less the same.

[Art 1]

If I was the CEO of Rolex I would be very happy with the current pricing structure. They are selling well at the current prices.

[mfer]

Well, if you owned a Company and you could sell your product for kore money, knowing people would buy it, would you? Trust me, Rolex and Panerai have thought about this was more than you have and I'm pretty sure they know what people will pay unfortunately.

[esm]

Originally Posted by L-16610

But that would make the Rolex a lot cheaper
The more they make and sell, the cheaper it gets to make them

Don't forget that there are many people willing to pay the Rolex asking price.
Plus - Rolex setup up charitable funds. So that is a good thing IMO. How many watch companies does that?

[watchf]

Where is the option for both are overpriced?!

[renfield33]

Originally Posted by mike

Ha! You'll get no arguement from me about the price of either brand.

Bit of a sore point with me right now is the after sales service. Last Rolex I sent to RSC for a complete service took about 4 weeks.

In Feb. I bought a 321 that was running 45 seconds fast. Because it has the new 9000 movement it had to go to Panerai for regulation. That was in Feburary---I'd sure like to have it back.

i haven't read the whole thread, but 4 weeks is actually pretty good. i sent a TAG in for service and it was 10 weeks on an ETA movement!

[Roja]

Rolex a bit too expensive? Perhaps a bit, but the depreciation skews the way I feel about the price.
Panerai too cheap? No bloody way!

Like it's been said before, I think the comparison is apples and oranges.

[roleyrolz]

With my limited experinece I beleive Rolex is way overpriced and its that way on purpose. If you were to compare Rolex for example to Zenith a watch company that has a much longer histroy more innovation and design there is no comparison. MSRP for a Zenith Capatain El Primero Chrono with ss braclet is 7400,the same price as a Sub-c.That has no Chrono nor a sapphire caseback nor the El-primero movemnet. But then again tell people u bought the Zenith and no one would care tell some one u bought a Rolex and things start to change.Rolex reminds me of louie vuitton by far not the best quality suits or shoes or luggage but priced as if there is no better.While they are good like Rolex there are other brands that are better quality tell some one u bought Louie Vuitton shoes they say wow tell them u bought Crockett and jones they say what. Rolex knows this and knows they are for the uninformed ,the best out there and for the informed good rugged way overpriced watches that have to be had in any serious watch collection. Why ? Because its a Rolex.:)

[chicfarmer1]

Originally Posted by roleyrolz

Rolex knows this and knows they are for the uninformed ,the best out there and for the informed good rugged way overpriced watches that have to be had in any serious watch collection. Why ? Because its a Rolex.:)

I don't understand being part of a forum of a product you only sort of admire but hold in deep skepticism, but to each his/her own.

[Frogman4me]

Originally Posted by roleyrolz

With my limited experinece I beleive Rolex is way overpriced and its that way on purpose. If you were to compare Rolex for example to Zenith a watch company that has a much longer histroy more innovation and design there is no comparison.

No comparison? You must be only talking about history in Chronograph movements...

[esm]

Originally Posted by roleyrolz

If you were to compare Rolex for example to Zenith a watch company that has a much longer histroy more innovation and design there is no comparison. MSRP for a Zenith Capatain El Primero Chrono with ss braclet is 7400,the same price as a Sub-c.That has no Chrono nor a sapphire caseback nor the El-primero movemnet.

to be fair though, Zenith had a huge re-organisation change since the new CEO joined and they had to bring their price back to their 1995 price to be able to compete in the current market.
imo - the 3135 is the non-chrono version of the El-Primero. both has outstanding history and status.
look at the new Zenith Striking 10th - beautiful piece and awesome movement, but it has quite a high price tag that most people would not be happy to pay.... why? maybe because the "original design" of Zenith El-Primero has been "off" the market for too long.

in saying that - i would love to add a Zenith El-Primero to my collection one day soon. (either a Striking 10th or a New Vintage 1969)

[Speed]

Originally Posted by L-16610

indeed, Panerai service is a disaster compared to Rolex
It takes way too long
But look at Patek, thats even worse

The other disturbing point an AD tells me is that Panerai does not allow him to keep extra screws or tubes on hand for mere strap changes. I've stocked up on spares at Panatime.com...but not until after I tried to get help with a strap! I imagine I will have a wait like Mike's at some point for servicing.

[Welshwatchman]

Originally Posted by roleyrolz

With my limited experinece I beleive Rolex is way overpriced and its that way on purpose. If you were to compare Rolex for example to Zenith a watch company that has a much longer histroy more innovation and design there is no comparison. MSRP for a Zenith Capatain El Primero Chrono with ss braclet is 7400,the same price as a Sub-c.That has no Chrono nor a sapphire caseback nor the El-primero movemnet. But then again tell people u bought the Zenith and no one would care tell some one u bought a Rolex and things start to change.Rolex reminds me of louie vuitton by far not the best quality suits or shoes or luggage but priced as if there is no better.While they are good like Rolex there are other brands that are better quality tell some one u bought Louie Vuitton shoes they say wow tell them u bought Crockett and jones they say what. Rolex knows this and knows they are for the uninformed ,the best out there and for the informed good rugged way overpriced watches that have to be had in any serious watch collection. Why ? Because its a Rolex.:)

I also believe Rolex are overpriced at the current MRSP but there again all the other watch brands are similarly overpriced, including Zenith.

I know nothing about handbags though.

[usbzoso]

I can't believe anyone would pay anything over $3k dollars for ETA/UNITAS 6497 watch. PAM with in-house movements i understand different story.

[dsio]

I think Panerai's are grossly overvalued, but some of Omega's newer offerings are in a similar boat.

[Speed]

Originally Posted by usbzoso

I can't believe anyone would pay anything over $3k dollars for ETA/UNITAS 6497 watch. PAM with in-house movements i understand different story.

This is why...It's a gorgeous, simple, beautifully-designed watch that gives good time

[dsio]

Originally Posted by Speed

This is why...It's a gorgeous, simple, beautiful watch and gives good time

Gorgeous simple and beautiful make me think "fashion watch" is the thing, and if that's all that matters a homage watch does the same thing right down to the movement for 2.5k less, its not like a homage Explorer II where you're missing out on a special movement.

I just struggle to see the money, no doubting they're neat looking.

[Speed]

Originally Posted by dsio

Gorgeous simple and beautiful make me think "fashion watch" is the thing, and if that's all that matters a homage watch does the same thing right down to the movement for 2.5k less, its not like a homage Explorer II where you're missing out on a special movement.

I just struggle to see the money, no doubting they're neat looking.

I disagree. I think my Sub or GMT is Gorgeous, simple and beautiful as well.

You pay for the brand in either case. That's for sure.

[dsio]

Originally Posted by Speed

I disagree. I think my Sub or GMT is Gorgeous, simple and beautiful as well.

You pay for the brand in either case. That's for sure.

Hmm but would the brand be worth more than peanuts if Sly had walked out of that jewelery store with a Movado in '95 instead of a Panerai?