ROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEX

finance21 · 4 July 2007, 01:01 AM

Everyone knows that the prices of the ultra iconic 5513 and 1680’s have gone through the roof over the past year or so. As I see the prices going up I have to ask, is anyone paying these outrageous prices being asked? Some of the watches are in immaculate condition and I do understand the premium however, others just seem to be over priced. I feel comfortable saying this because I just let my 5513 go and had a very tough time doing so.

Has anyone else noticed this and thought to themselves, maybe I will just wait until prices come back to down before buying one? I am debating buying a nice 5513 or 1680 however, I can not justify doing so with these prices.

colemanitis · 4 July 2007, 01:09 AM

Congrats on selling your 5513! Now you're wanting another one?

finance21 · 4 July 2007, 01:12 AM

Well mine was late 60’s and the dial was relumed at some point in the past. I want late 70’s, all original.

padi56 · 4 July 2007, 01:34 AM

Well the way vintage Rolex prices are going IMO they will only continue to rise upward.And now all original 5512/3 1680 in good condition are getting harder to find.

finance21 · 4 July 2007, 01:36 AM

Does anyone think that the high prices could be linked to the rest of the speculative crazy going on all over the world (housing, market indices, art work, ect. ect.)

padi56 · 4 July 2007, 01:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by finance21

Does anyone think that the high prices could be linked to the rest of the speculative crazy going on all over the world (housing, market indices, art work, ect. ect.)

Well its like saying how long is a piece of string,but myself have not seen over the last 20 odd years a decrease in vintage rolex.Now take the 6263/5 Daytona in the 70s-80s Rolex could not give them away.And for a watch with as many would say a inferior movement being a Valjoux 72.And the fact that the S.steel versions were not COSC tested only the all gold were, although exactly the same movement in every way.It just goes to show the power in the Rolex name,as there are many vintage chronos out there with same movement and you pick then up for very little money.

ducksaw · 4 July 2007, 01:51 AM

I wonder if these vintage models are becoming more popular b/c of Rolex evolving and deviating from the tool watch. I know when I was looking for a 1680, I felt pressured to get one before all subs have polished center links, etc. I know there is a strong demographic for these more modern pieces, but I think there is a sense of urgency surrounding the vintage sport models, as Rolex drifts further away from "sport" models.

padi56 · 4 July 2007, 01:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ducksaw

I wonder if these vintage models are becoming more popular b/c of Rolex evolving and deviating from the tool watch. I know when I was looking for a 1680, I felt pressured to get one before all subs have polished center links, etc. I know there is a strong demographic for these more modern pieces, but I think there is a sense of urgency surrounding the vintage sport models, as Rolex drifts further away from "sport" models.

Would seriously doubt if you will ever see polished centre links on any SS sub or SD IMHO.

ducksaw · 4 July 2007, 04:16 AM

I hope you're right!!

mike · 4 July 2007, 08:48 AM

Good question and one that always gererates a lot of discussion among collectors.

I agree with padi in that vintage pricing seems to be heading north. We deal with a finite resource when discussing vintage watches. I've always felt condition is the key in determining pricing on vintage. Good pieces are getting hard to find and it seems prices reflect that. Neither the 5513 or 1680 are particularly rare watches, but they are desirable watches. Special nuances, such as the maxi 5513 and certainly the Reds seem to be exploding.
Sadly, some of these watches are being priced out of the range of the average collector as new money enters the arena.
I think there is a certain "investment" mentality that has entered the market which in my view is a bit dangerous save for some examples such as the mil. subs. and COMEX which I put in a whole different league.
I still remember though collectors talking about the high prices of today being tomorrows bargins.
My feeling is and has always been buy the very best example you can find and afford because you LIKE it!

Rubenonfire · 4 July 2007, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike

My feeling is and has always been buy the very best example you can find and afford because you LIKE it!

Agree with you and Padi 100%, Mike! It seems silly to buy something like a watch as an investment.

Granted we all hope our watches will hold their value and appreciate over time, but I share the opinion that watches are to be worn, enjoyed and loved. Even if I did buy a vintage watch for the appreciation factor, it would DEFINITELY be one that I like and could wear every day...I doubt I would ever buy one (especially an expensive one) just because it was a "hot commodity."

finance21 · 4 July 2007, 09:14 AM

Maybe my topic was a bit misleading. I would never buy a watch as an investment but at the same time I am personally concerned that this crazy might disappear. While I really am not too concerned if I lose 2k or make it on a watch obviously, if I could wait a year to save some money I would opt to do just that.

I love the vintage watches however, I have to stand back and ask myself why a 5513 or 1680 is as expensive as a pre-owned “new” Rolex. Are they really in such demand or is this demand a bit of smoke in mirrors created by a craze that might fizzle in a year or so?

finance21 · 4 July 2007, 09:18 AM

Basically I want to find a 5513 or 1680 in mint condition for 3k. I am sure you guys can sympathize.

^fai^ · 4 July 2007, 11:05 AM

Both 5513 & 1680 are the nice vintage watch

I am just curious, does the 5513 comes with the RING on the marker?

mike · 4 July 2007, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ^fai^

Both 5513 & 1680 are the nice vintage watch

I am just curious, does the 5513 comes with the RING on the marker?

By RING I assume you mean white gold surrounds? If so, yes after about 1984-85.
The 5513 started with a gilt dial no WG surrounds to matt no WG surrounds and the last incantation, gloss with WG surrounds.
Since the gloss WG surround was the last correct dial, service replacement dials for the 5513 will be luminova gloss with WG surrounds REGUARDLESS of the the orginal dial type.

^fai^ · 4 July 2007, 11:26 AM

Yes, you are absolutely correct

Then what do you think of all the 3 types - gilt dial no WG surrounds, matt no WG surrounds and with WG surrounds. I would think that the matt no WG surrounds looks the best.

mike · 4 July 2007, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ^fai^

Yes, you are absolutely correct

Then what do you think of all the 3 types - gilt dial no WG surrounds, matt no WG surrounds and with WG surrounds. I would think that the matt no WG surrounds looks the best.

Yeah, the matt dials are nice!

Some collectors seek the maxi-dial variation noted for it's slightly larger indices and batons that seem to "touch" the minute markers. Rather rare, the maxi was made from about serial number 5.5 mil to about a bit past 6 mil.
I must say the gilt dials are VERY nice though! Especially those with inclosed minute rings.

My maxi--6.04 ser. no.--hacking,

problmchylde · 4 July 2007, 02:43 PM

Nice Maxi.Here's mine......

^fai^ · 4 July 2007, 03:09 PM

How about the word "SUBMARINER" & "660ft = 200m", some of them the SUBMARINER at the top of 660ft=200m and some at the bottom - what are they means?

mike · 4 July 2007, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ^fai^

How about the word "SUBMARINER" & "660ft = 200m", some of them the SUBMARINER at the top of 660ft=200m and some at the bottom - what are they means?

With Rolex there are no absolutes, but generally speaking most feel the breakdown is as follows...(with a crossover period),

Meters first with SUBMARINER under--circa 62-68 (gilt dials go here)
Feet first with SUBMARINER under--circa 69-77
Feet first with SUBMARINER over--78-89

The gloss dial with WG surrounds from about 84 or so till the end of the run.

^fai^ · 9 July 2007, 05:50 PM

Thanks Mike for the

information.

Btw, if a 1680 & 5513 in tip-top condition (still can dive with it), what would you think of the price?

Currently, I am considering of getting a 1680, but I do not know what to look out for? It's made of acrylic? I would appreciate it if you could give me more input. Many thanks...

mike · 9 July 2007, 07:14 PM

Pricing in the U.S. seems to be hovering around 4.5 to 5k at the moment. Of course condition is the key to any vintage piece and will certainly dicate the value.
If the watch is going to be used in water it's paramount it be serviced and pressure tested. Acrylic crystals (and of course gaskets) can lose their integrity over time.

Patience is the key. Try to find the best example you can even if it means a few dollars more. In the long run it will pay off. IMO.

Orginal 1680s came with a more rounded crystal while later replacements were taller with a sharper edge.

Note the orginal on the right and the service replacement on the left. I would use the replacement in the water,

Service replacement,

The 1680 was never issued with a gloss WG dial using a matt dial throughout it's run. Of course the dial was/is tritium on orginal examples.

Using the 1575 slow beat movement the 1680 has, I feel, one of the best movements ever used by Rolex. Of course the date is non-quick-set. Most feel the orginal date wheel is silver though I have one with a white replacement. Doesn't seem to affect the value.

White 1680s hack (early REDS did not) so setting the exact time is much easier.

The 1680 is, to me, the best looking of the vintage divers. Certainly the 5513 is the simple no nonsence classic, but the uniqueness of the 1680 quite sets it apart!

It is possible to get a replacement dial for the 1680. Of course it will be of the luminova varity-matt. Making the 1680 completely function albiet at the expense of overall value.

Overall the 1680 in either RED or WHITE is such a unique watch, and my favorite diver!

^fai^ · 12 July 2007, 05:38 PM

Hi Mike...great info

Both 1680 WHITE or RED are using the same 1575 slow beat movement?
In all, beside the wording color "SUBMARINER", any other different between them? Any different in price between the WHITE or RED?

The ones 1680 WHITE that was quoted me was a bit at the high side (USD6,000). Likes you had mentioned, patience is the key, perhaps I should look around for better example.

mike · 12 July 2007, 06:42 PM

Both use the same 1575 movement. Other than Submariner in RED there are no real differences. Early REDS were non-hacking with the change to hacking occuring around 1970 across the board, but as with all things Rolex there is an overlap. My 1970 model is non-hacking.
Early REDS were meters first and seem to command a bit more.
Both versions came with silver date wheels. Most feel white is a service replacement (doesn't seem to affect price though most collectors prefer the silver..I have both)

Pricing in the U.S. currently has the Red hovering just either side of 10K, with the White at around half that. Again condition is the big factor here.

JJ Irani · 13 July 2007, 06:54 AM

Mike,

Your pics never cease to amaze or impress!! Great stuff!!

KJacques · 13 July 2007, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JJ Irani

Mike,

Your pics never cease to amaze or impress!! Great stuff!!

The pics are great, but Mike's knowledge blows me away. I've learned so much that it has given me a greater appreciation for the vintage pieces.

^fai^ · 14 July 2007, 08:19 PM

Hi Mike...

How about the bezel, it should be able to turn both clockwise and anti-clockwise?

From the serial#, how do I know the watch it manufacture in which year?
Any concern in regards to the manufactrue year?

In which year, 1680 has been stop production?

Many thanks...

mike · 14 July 2007, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ^fai^

Hi Mike...

How about the bezel, it should be able to turn both clockwise and anti-clockwise?

From the serial#, how do I know the watch it manufacture in which year?
Any concern in regards to the manufactrue year?

In which year, 1680 has been stop production?

Many thanks...

Hey fai,

Indeed the 1680 uses a bidirectional friction bezel. These was done throughout the run. Rolex did not debute the unidirectional ratcheting bezel untill the the 1680s predecessor the 16800 circa 1979-80.

Determining the exact date a given watch was made is a bit of a guess. I've found Hannes excellent site to be among the best for determining manufacture by date,
http://www.oysterworld.de/1/index.htm

I don't have any concerns reguarding year, as in one being better than the other. As I mentioned in another thread the 1680 (white) has two different fonts (both mine are the same). The main difference being in the thickness and type--most notable in the 6s in the depth rating.
As to which year(s) each was used, it seems they "lived together" depending on dial manufacture.

^fai^ · 14 July 2007, 08:58 PM

The serial# that I am looking at is 558XXXX. Base on this, it should belongs to which year? Any idea?

mike · 14 July 2007, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ^fai^

The serial# that I am looking at is 558XXXX. Base on this, it should belongs to which year? Any idea?

Circa 1978. Can you post a photo of it?

4 July 2007, 01:01 AM	#1
finance21 2024 Pledge Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: U.S.A Posts: 363	5513 - 1680 Everyone knows that the prices of the ultra iconic 5513 and 1680’s have gone through the roof over the past year or so. As I see the prices going up I have to ask, is anyone paying these outrageous prices being asked? Some of the watches are in immaculate condition and I do understand the premium however, others just seem to be over priced. I feel comfortable saying this because I just let my 5513 go and had a very tough time doing so. Has anyone else noticed this and thought to themselves, maybe I will just wait until prices come back to down before buying one? I am debating buying a nice 5513 or 1680 however, I can not justify doing so with these prices.

4 July 2007, 01:09 AM	#2
colemanitis "TRF" Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Real Name: Jeff Location: Florida Watch: PAM 1090 Posts: 3,723	Congrats on selling your 5513! Now you're wanting another one? __________________ Member #471

4 July 2007, 01:34 AM	#4
padi56 "TRF" Life Patron Join Date: Jun 2005 Real Name: Peter Location: Llanfairpwllgwyng Watch: ing you. Posts: 53,042	Well the way vintage Rolex prices are going IMO they will only continue to rise upward.And now all original 5512/3 1680 in good condition are getting harder to find. __________________ ICom Pro3 All posts are my own opinion and my opinion only. "The clock of life is wound but once, and no man has the power to tell just when the hands will stop. Now is the only time you actually own the time, Place no faith in time, for the clock may soon be still for ever." Good Judgement comes from experience,experience comes from Bad Judgement,.Buy quality, cry once; buy cheap, cry again and again. www.mc0yad.club Second in command CEO and left handed watch winder

13 July 2007, 06:54 AM	#25
JJ Irani Fondly Remembered Join Date: May 2005 Real Name: JJ Location: Auckland, NZ Watch: ALL SOLD!! Posts: 74,319	Mike, Your pics never cease to amaze or impress!! Great stuff!! __________________ Words fail me in expressing my utmost thanks to ALL of you for this wonderful support during my hour of need!! I firmly believe that my time on planet earth is NOT yet up!! I shall fight this to the very end.......and WIN!!

4 July 2007, 01:12 AM	#3
finance21 2024 Pledge Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: U.S.A Posts: 363	Well mine was late 60’s and the dial was relumed at some point in the past. I want late 70’s, all original.

4 July 2007, 01:36 AM	#5
finance21 2024 Pledge Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: U.S.A Posts: 363	Does anyone think that the high prices could be linked to the rest of the speculative crazy going on all over the world (housing, market indices, art work, ect. ect.)

4 July 2007, 01:51 AM	#7
ducksaw "TRF" Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Real Name: Chad Location: chattanooga, TN Watch: 1680 Posts: 182	I wonder if these vintage models are becoming more popular b/c of Rolex evolving and deviating from the tool watch. I know when I was looking for a 1680, I felt pressured to get one before all subs have polished center links, etc. I know there is a strong demographic for these more modern pieces, but I think there is a sense of urgency surrounding the vintage sport models, as Rolex drifts further away from "sport" models.

4 July 2007, 04:16 AM	#9
ducksaw "TRF" Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Real Name: Chad Location: chattanooga, TN Watch: 1680 Posts: 182	I hope you're right!!

4 July 2007, 08:48 AM	#10
mike "TRF" Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 22,683	Good question and one that always gererates a lot of discussion among collectors. I agree with padi in that vintage pricing seems to be heading north. We deal with a finite resource when discussing vintage watches. I've always felt condition is the key in determining pricing on vintage. Good pieces are getting hard to find and it seems prices reflect that. Neither the 5513 or 1680 are particularly rare watches, but they are desirable watches. Special nuances, such as the maxi 5513 and certainly the Reds seem to be exploding. Sadly, some of these watches are being priced out of the range of the average collector as new money enters the arena. I think there is a certain "investment" mentality that has entered the market which in my view is a bit dangerous save for some examples such as the mil. subs. and COMEX which I put in a whole different league. I still remember though collectors talking about the high prices of today being tomorrows bargins. My feeling is and has always been buy the very best example you can find and afford because you LIKE it!

4 July 2007, 09:14 AM	#12
finance21 2024 Pledge Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: U.S.A Posts: 363	Maybe my topic was a bit misleading. I would never buy a watch as an investment but at the same time I am personally concerned that this crazy might disappear. While I really am not too concerned if I lose 2k or make it on a watch obviously, if I could wait a year to save some money I would opt to do just that. I love the vintage watches however, I have to stand back and ask myself why a 5513 or 1680 is as expensive as a pre-owned “new” Rolex. Are they really in such demand or is this demand a bit of smoke in mirrors created by a craze that might fizzle in a year or so?

4 July 2007, 09:18 AM	#13
finance21 2024 Pledge Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: U.S.A Posts: 363	Basically I want to find a 5513 or 1680 in mint condition for 3k. I am sure you guys can sympathize.

4 July 2007, 11:05 AM	#14
^fai^ Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Singapore Posts: 231	Both 5513 & 1680 are the nice vintage watch I am just curious, does the 5513 comes with the RING on the marker?

4 July 2007, 11:26 AM	#16
^fai^ Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Singapore Posts: 231	Yes, you are absolutely correct Then what do you think of all the 3 types - gilt dial no WG surrounds, matt no WG surrounds and with WG surrounds. I would think that the matt no WG surrounds looks the best.

4 July 2007, 02:43 PM	#18
problmchylde "TRF" Member Join Date: May 2007 Real Name: PETER Location: Singapore Watch: 1665 SD Posts: 768	Nice Maxi.Here's mine......

4 July 2007, 03:09 PM	#19
^fai^ Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Singapore Posts: 231	How about the word "SUBMARINER" & "660ft = 200m", some of them the SUBMARINER at the top of 660ft=200m and some at the bottom - what are they means?

9 July 2007, 05:50 PM	#21
^fai^ Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Singapore Posts: 231	Thanks Mike for the information. Btw, if a 1680 & 5513 in tip-top condition (still can dive with it), what would you think of the price? Currently, I am considering of getting a 1680, but I do not know what to look out for? It's made of acrylic? I would appreciate it if you could give me more input. Many thanks...

9 July 2007, 07:14 PM	#22
mike "TRF" Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 22,683	Pricing in the U.S. seems to be hovering around 4.5 to 5k at the moment. Of course condition is the key to any vintage piece and will certainly dicate the value. If the watch is going to be used in water it's paramount it be serviced and pressure tested. Acrylic crystals (and of course gaskets) can lose their integrity over time. Patience is the key. Try to find the best example you can even if it means a few dollars more. In the long run it will pay off. IMO. Orginal 1680s came with a more rounded crystal while later replacements were taller with a sharper edge. Note the orginal on the right and the service replacement on the left. I would use the replacement in the water, Service replacement, The 1680 was never issued with a gloss WG dial using a matt dial throughout it's run. Of course the dial was/is tritium on orginal examples. Using the 1575 slow beat movement the 1680 has, I feel, one of the best movements ever used by Rolex. Of course the date is non-quick-set. Most feel the orginal date wheel is silver though I have one with a white replacement. Doesn't seem to affect the value. White 1680s hack (early REDS did not) so setting the exact time is much easier. The 1680 is, to me, the best looking of the vintage divers. Certainly the 5513 is the simple no nonsence classic, but the uniqueness of the 1680 quite sets it apart! It is possible to get a replacement dial for the 1680. Of course it will be of the luminova varity-matt. Making the 1680 completely function albiet at the expense of overall value. Overall the 1680 in either RED or WHITE is such a unique watch, and my favorite diver!

12 July 2007, 05:38 PM	#23
^fai^ Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Singapore Posts: 231	Hi Mike...great info Both 1680 WHITE or RED are using the same 1575 slow beat movement? In all, beside the wording color "SUBMARINER", any other different between them? Any different in price between the WHITE or RED? The ones 1680 WHITE that was quoted me was a bit at the high side (USD6,000). Likes you had mentioned, patience is the key, perhaps I should look around for better example.

12 July 2007, 06:42 PM	#24
mike "TRF" Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 22,683	Both use the same 1575 movement. Other than Submariner in RED there are no real differences. Early REDS were non-hacking with the change to hacking occuring around 1970 across the board, but as with all things Rolex there is an overlap. My 1970 model is non-hacking. Early REDS were meters first and seem to command a bit more. Both versions came with silver date wheels. Most feel white is a service replacement (doesn't seem to affect price though most collectors prefer the silver..I have both) Pricing in the U.S. currently has the Red hovering just either side of 10K, with the White at around half that. Again condition is the big factor here.

14 July 2007, 08:19 PM	#27
^fai^ Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Singapore Posts: 231	Hi Mike... How about the bezel, it should be able to turn both clockwise and anti-clockwise? From the serial#, how do I know the watch it manufacture in which year? Any concern in regards to the manufactrue year? In which year, 1680 has been stop production? Many thanks...

14 July 2007, 08:58 PM	#29
^fai^ Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Singapore Posts: 231	The serial# that I am looking at is 558XXXX. Base on this, it should belongs to which year? Any idea?

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)