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ddnyc77 · 2 October 2011, 07:53 AM

Recently I have seen several F serial LVs failry new if not BNIB. The "asking" premium is very high 7k or 8k, much higher than any other serial out there. We all know the differences are very slight especially from say a F to a D (both have no engraved rehault). I can list all the other Mark 1 - Mark 8 dial variations but that is a matter for another thread.

So here is the question to consider, is this purely internet hype overy "flat 4s" and such or do we think there is some long term collectibility or whatever you call it to justify the premium.

I would also point out this, my Y serial 14060M also has a "Flat 4" and prob all other sub bezels of that year, no attention paid to this fact, just an observation.

Speed · 2 October 2011, 07:58 AM

I say major hype.

Even less relevance than "Stick dial" GMT IIs w/ 3186 movement - IMO

perpetualman88 · 2 October 2011, 08:01 AM

The only ones I know of that are getting a premium because of serial number is the "G" serial. talking from 9-11k

Bobble · 2 October 2011, 08:02 AM

I reckon it's just sellers trying to push the prices up

Randy · 2 October 2011, 08:04 AM

Y and F serials are commanding a premium due to the fact that collectors are paying more for them. Same thing with 3186 Pepsi GMT.

mboverst · 2 October 2011, 08:14 AM

Correct, collectors are paying more, and they're getting tougher to source. They have been trading pretty high and tight at the dealer shows for the past couple of months.

Dr.Brian · 2 October 2011, 08:20 AM

People are desperate to have/create/buy a collectable Rolex. The fact that their "collectable" is really one of thousands is lost on them. One guy kept his "collectible" misprint dial milgauss. There's nothing collectible about a dial with one color printed wrong, though maybe Rolex would like to buy it back to cover up their horrible QC.

jekuo · 2 October 2011, 08:27 AM

What makes a watch collectible? It's whatever buyers find attractive. Flat 4s, stick dials, etc. The market will determine demand and price.

HL65 · 2 October 2011, 09:53 AM

The fact is there are not a lot of them around and buyers pay premiums for them. Whether or not people think they are worth it doesn't much matter as the market has the last say.

dddrees · 2 October 2011, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteelerFan65

The fact is there are not a lot of them around and buyers pay premiums for them. Whether or not people think they are worth it doesn't much matter as the market has the last say.

As usual great explanation Ken.

Art 1 · 2 October 2011, 10:00 AM

I wouldn't pay a premium for one but can see why someone would. They are somewhat hard to come by.

HL65 · 2 October 2011, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dddrees

As usual great explanation Ken.

Why thank you Dan!!

Speed · 2 October 2011, 12:12 PM

I agree the market has the last say.

However, will the sans serif / "stick" font on a GMTII make it worth super normal amounts in 10 years? Dunno. Would I pay a grand or more for one such model than for a similar condition GMTII serif font dial - now? No.

Same goes for a flat 4 LV Vs. a pointy 4.

Where's Padi by the way?

MortgageGuy · 2 October 2011, 12:35 PM

Internet Hype and sellers charging a premium for a perceived "collect ability" IMHO...

mboverst · 2 October 2011, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MortgageGuy

Internet Hype and sellers charging a premium for a perceived "collect ability" IMHO...

It's actually trading a lot higher off the internet at the trade shows and dealer markets. It's no internet hype, the worldwide market is saying this is a pretty collectible piece (not saying I agree or understand...it is what is...).

Speed · 2 October 2011, 12:58 PM

Question is...will the hype (internet or off-line) last?

While I am not a Vintage guy (yet) don't some models fall in and out of favor from a "collectibility" standpoint?

MortgageGuy · 2 October 2011, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mboverst

It's actually trading a lot higher off the internet at the trade shows and dealer markets. It's no internet hype, the worldwide market is saying this is a pretty collectible piece (not saying I agree or understand...it is what is...).

That maybe but homes were selling a lot higher 5 years ago than they were today too... Just some food for thought... One can think what they will be I do not see any modern Rolex being rare/collectible. If you are purchasing this watch from 7-10k I dont see any way possible for anything to happen other than you lose money.

This is of course just my opinion...Trade shows/Internet... Its all the same. Sellers trying to sell their watches at a higher/premium price. They have to keep the price high to keep the perceived "collect-ability" until the market will no longer pay. I am not certain but I do not see people lining up to pay 7-10k for a watch that retailed between 4-6.4k during production

mboverst · 2 October 2011, 01:05 PM

Don't disagree at all...I would never pay anywhere near that for one. I was just saying it's not just an internet thing, apparently collectors everywhere are paying this much for it.

FYI - I have a beautiful mint F-serial I would happily sell for 7-10k right now...heck, I'll take 6!

MortgageGuy · 2 October 2011, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mboverst

Don't disagree at all...I would never pay anywhere near that for one. I was just saying it's not just an internet thing, apparently collectors everywhere are paying this much for it.

FYI - I have a beautiful mint F-serial I would happily sell for 7-10k right now...heck, I'll take 6!

I know and think we are on the same page too... It is crazy. Hell, if someone will pay it great but I think they are crazy

Maybe I am the crazy one, I am still pouring $$$ into my 401k and the market... Maybe I should be offering you 10k for your LV

Adam

bodybump · 2 October 2011, 01:11 PM

Are you trying to flip again Adam??

Quote:

Originally Posted by MortgageGuy

I know and think we are on the same page too... It is crazy. Hell, if someone will pay it great but I think they are crazy

Maybe I am the crazy one, I am still pouring $$$ into my 401k and the market... Maybe I should be offering you 10k for your LV

Adam

Mickey® · 2 October 2011, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by speed

i say major hype.

Even less relevance than "stick dial" gmt iis w/ 3186 movement - imo

+1

MortgageGuy · 2 October 2011, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bodybump

Are you trying to flip again Adam??

Oscar, Oscar, Oscar

akiruno · 2 October 2011, 02:04 PM

Collectable...how many true 50th anniversary 16610LV "Y" were produced?

Sent via SoftBank iPhone using Tapatalk

mboverst · 2 October 2011, 02:07 PM

I feel my deal of the day coming tomorrow...stay tuned...

hennabav · 2 October 2011, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by akiruno

Collectable...how many true 50th anniversary 16610LV "Y" were produced?

Sent via SoftBank iPhone using Tapatalk

Not many true Y-series LV were produced as they were towards the end of the series...guessing only about a 2-3 month production. Many wise words said here and different points of view. But I agree with Matt & Ken. In the end, it's not about us individually who determine the price. It is the majority of the marketplace. If we all assumed collectibility with some of the factors mentioned here, then that means some of these PN Daytonas, Red Subs, DRSD, etc....should not be worth this much. But due to the self-fulfilling prophecy, prices climb with majority collectors beginning to clamor onto these pieces and demand starts to overstate supply. Nevertheless, all great points!

TurboWatch · 2 October 2011, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ddnyc77

Recently I have seen several F serial LVs failry new if not BNIB. The "asking" premium is very high 7k or 8k, much higher than any other serial out there. We all know the differences are very slight especially from say a F to a D (both have no engraved rehault). I can list all the other Mark 1 - Mark 8 dial variations but that is a matter for another thread.

So here is the question to consider, is this purely internet hype overy "flat 4s" and such or do we think there is some long term collectibility or whatever you call it to justify the premium.

I would also point out this, my Y serial 14060M also has a "Flat 4" and prob all other sub bezels of that year, no attention paid to this fact, just an observation.

I wouldn't pay a cent more, in fact unless the price is $500-$600 less than the comparable M or V model ( for the price of a service ). UNLESS it's the Y or F0 serial with complete set and paper indicating the watch was sold between Sept. 2003 and Dec. 2003. I'd pay MORE as they were the first release of the LV.

Speed · 2 October 2011, 04:10 PM

Well, we WIS love our minutiae.

I'm guilty as well...pity I don't own one of these minutiae-ridden specimens.

Kiddodoc · 2 October 2011, 10:52 PM

I picked one up a year ago for a great price and with the hope that in 20 years it will be worth much more. I remember buying my Sub 1680 for 980 dollars in 1980 and now see them selling for 5-6K. Don't know if the LV will be that way in the future but I don't tend to sell my watches as I enjoy them too much. In the end, my 3 year old with be the beneficiary of my collection and hopefully it will be for his enjoyment or need for money will help him.

2 October 2011, 07:53 AM	#1
ddnyc77 Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: nyc Posts: 425	16610LV F Serial Hype? Recently I have seen several F serial LVs failry new if not BNIB. The "asking" premium is very high 7k or 8k, much higher than any other serial out there. We all know the differences are very slight especially from say a F to a D (both have no engraved rehault). I can list all the other Mark 1 - Mark 8 dial variations but that is a matter for another thread. So here is the question to consider, is this purely internet hype overy "flat 4s" and such or do we think there is some long term collectibility or whatever you call it to justify the premium. I would also point out this, my Y serial 14060M also has a "Flat 4" and prob all other sub bezels of that year, no attention paid to this fact, just an observation.

2 October 2011, 08:01 AM	#3
perpetualman88 2024 ROLEX SUBMARINER 41 Pledge Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Real Name: David Farkas Location: Los Angeles Watch: 116610, 5712/1A Posts: 8,172	The only ones I know of that are getting a premium because of serial number is the "G" serial. talking from 9-11k __________________ Instagram: @SwissWatchTime

2 October 2011, 08:20 AM	#7
Dr.Brian 2024 SubLV41 Pledge Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Real Name: Brian Location: CA dreamin' Watch: ing the market. Posts: 5,906	People are desperate to have/create/buy a collectable Rolex. The fact that their "collectable" is really one of thousands is lost on them. One guy kept his "collectible" misprint dial milgauss. There's nothing collectible about a dial with one color printed wrong, though maybe Rolex would like to buy it back to cover up their horrible QC. __________________ -Brian AUDENTES FORTUNA IUVAT 十人十色

2 October 2011, 09:53 AM	#9
HL65 TRF Moderator & 2024 SubLV41 Patron Join Date: Dec 2007 Real Name: Ken Location: SW Florida Watch: One on my wrist. Posts: 63,989	The fact is there are not a lot of them around and buyers pay premiums for them. Whether or not people think they are worth it doesn't much matter as the market has the last say. __________________ *SPEM SUCCESSUS ALIT*

2 October 2011, 12:35 PM	#14
MortgageGuy "TRF" Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Real Name: Adam Location: Orlando, Florida Watch: Me Posts: 9,935	Internet Hype and sellers charging a premium for a perceived "collect ability" IMHO... __________________ The richest people in the world look for and build NETWORKS, Everyone else looks for work... Robert Kiyosaki

2 October 2011, 07:58 AM	#2
Speed "TRF" Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: USA Posts: 19,706	I say major hype. Even less relevance than "Stick dial" GMT IIs w/ 3186 movement - IMO

2 October 2011, 08:02 AM	#4
Bobble Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Real Name: Paul Location: Midlands UK Watch: GMT IIc, Daytona Posts: 423	I reckon it's just sellers trying to push the prices up

2 October 2011, 08:04 AM	#5
Randy "TRF" Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Real Name: Randy Location: Ohio Watch: AP, Rolex, Panerai Posts: 1,241	Y and F serials are commanding a premium due to the fact that collectors are paying more for them. Same thing with 3186 Pepsi GMT.

2 October 2011, 08:14 AM	#6
mboverst "TRF" Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Real Name: Matt Location: Dallas Posts: 1,683	Correct, collectors are paying more, and they're getting tougher to source. They have been trading pretty high and tight at the dealer shows for the past couple of months.

2 October 2011, 08:27 AM	#8
jekuo Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Real Name: James Location: SoCal Watch: 16710B-M Series Posts: 288	What makes a watch collectible? It's whatever buyers find attractive. Flat 4s, stick dials, etc. The market will determine demand and price.

2 October 2011, 10:00 AM	#11
Art 1 Banned Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Florida, Canada Watch: Rol/Seik/Tud/Omega Posts: 30,244	I wouldn't pay a premium for one but can see why someone would. They are somewhat hard to come by.

2 October 2011, 12:12 PM	#13
Speed "TRF" Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: USA Posts: 19,706	I agree the market has the last say. However, will the sans serif / "stick" font on a GMTII make it worth super normal amounts in 10 years? Dunno. Would I pay a grand or more for one such model than for a similar condition GMTII serif font dial - now? No. Same goes for a flat 4 LV Vs. a pointy 4. Where's Padi by the way?

2 October 2011, 12:58 PM	#16
Speed "TRF" Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: USA Posts: 19,706	Question is...will the hype (internet or off-line) last? While I am not a Vintage guy (yet) don't some models fall in and out of favor from a "collectibility" standpoint?

2 October 2011, 01:05 PM	#18
mboverst "TRF" Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Real Name: Matt Location: Dallas Posts: 1,683	Don't disagree at all...I would never pay anywhere near that for one. I was just saying it's not just an internet thing, apparently collectors everywhere are paying this much for it. FYI - I have a beautiful mint F-serial I would happily sell for 7-10k right now...heck, I'll take 6!

2 October 2011, 02:04 PM	#23
akiruno "TRF" Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: SnugAsABugInARug Posts: 185	Collectable...how many true 50th anniversary 16610LV "Y" were produced? Sent via SoftBank iPhone using Tapatalk __________________ Kermit 'F' \| Seamaster \| Navitimer \| Superocean II \| Black Seal \| Portugieser \| Orange Boy

2 October 2011, 02:07 PM	#24
mboverst "TRF" Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Real Name: Matt Location: Dallas Posts: 1,683	I feel my deal of the day coming tomorrow...stay tuned...

2 October 2011, 04:10 PM	#27
Speed "TRF" Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: USA Posts: 19,706	Well, we WIS love our minutiae. I'm guilty as well...pity I don't own one of these minutiae-ridden specimens.

2 October 2011, 10:52 PM	#28
Kiddodoc 2024 Pledge Member Join Date: May 2009 Real Name: Rick Location: Texas Watch: 15 and counting! Posts: 3,531	I picked one up a year ago for a great price and with the hope that in 20 years it will be worth much more. I remember buying my Sub 1680 for 980 dollars in 1980 and now see them selling for 5-6K. Don't know if the LV will be that way in the future but I don't tend to sell my watches as I enjoy them too much. In the end, my 3 year old with be the beneficiary of my collection and hopefully it will be for his enjoyment or need for money will help him.

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