Do you prefer box and papers with your vintage?

[Pilot518]

Just thought i'd query the forum on this. I have started purchasing vintage Rolex watches. the ones i currently have do NOT have original kit (papers, boxes, warranty cards..etc) This has not been an issue to me. i plan to wear them. your thoughts??

[Mark020]

No b+p means more watches so I'm not interested in it.

[HL65]

I have some that are original owners and complete box, punched papers etc. and others that aren't. For me- I care about the quality of the watch- pristine dial, case, hands etc. more than box and papers. Don't get me wrong I have and would pay a nice premium for the right provenance. I also see many that put them together so on ones in the 50's and 60's I am always leary of complete sets. On the 70's - different story.

[roh123]

I'm not a collector so I'm not too bothered with it. I don't have super rare stuff and I own my watches to wear. I have the fullest respect for people who go after nice sets but personally I'm not interested in paying the extra premium for b+p. I'd rather spend that extra cash to find nicer pieces instead. Of course one could do like some and go after super rare watches in super condition with all extras but for me that's not possible. The wife says stop way before that stage. :)

[Dan Pierce]

Nice to have and will certainly add value, right or wrong. But not a deal breaker for the right watch at the right price.
dP

[Pilot518]

Thanks. It sounds like we are on the same page. it's all about the watch-case, bezel, etc. i am only a collector in the sense that i have more than one watch.

[pacifichrono]

I defintely prefer boxes & papers, but my purchase also depends on how much I like the watch and how much I like the price.

[dricig]

No matter the model, condition, age, daily wear or safe queen:
Always better with papers!

I won't pay extra for a watch with papers, but I will pay less for one without.

dave

[HL65]

Good luck finding a 6200, 5510, 6538, 6541 or any other 1950's Rolex with box and papers. Also- you won't be paying less for one of them without either- not in this lifetime!! Let's be realistic please....

[brkanand]

Yes. Why not? That way it amounts to a complete purchase.

[dricig]

Originally Posted by SteelerFan65

Good luck finding a 6200, 5510, 6538, 6541 or any other 1950's Rolex with box and papers. Also- you won't be paying less for one of them without either- not in this lifetime!! Let's be realistic please....

The thrill of the hunt!

That's what makes it a "Grail"

dave

[Jagatai]

I would pay for box and papers if the watch were in good condition.

[HL65]

Originally Posted by dricig

The thrill of the hunt!

That's what makes it a "Grail"

dave

I appreciate reality though. Anyone who truly knows vintage understands reality!

Again- for watches in 50's forget about box and papers as most papers are BS anyway from that era- handwritten booklets which are mostly faked IMHO. Finding pristine ultra rare watches from that era nearly impossible by itself!

[edouble141]

I am a collector and I am a seller too. I often flip out of lesser watches to raise cash for more valuable and rare ones. I can tell you from being on both ends of this that B&P adds at least 20% to the buy or sell side.

I would prefer to have a 9/10 with B&P to a 10/10 without B&P. The premium you pay for the complete set always equates to better appreciation and more value in the end, even more so than a 10/10 does, IMO.

And I am the owner of a 6538 from 1959 with B&P and I can tell you that if and when I sell it the value will be increased in the tens of thousands just for having the complete set. 20% increase on a $3000 watch is only $600 but, 20% increase on a 100k watch is $20,000 and that is not play money.

Whenever you can buy B&P sets, they are rare and valuable.

[dricig]

I agree that the older the vintage - the odds of finding a complete set drops drastically.
But if you find one, It's well worth the effort!
Especially when you flip it
And I see an awful lot of "flippers" around here!
dave

[hennabav]

Originally Posted by steelerfan65

i appreciate reality though. Anyone who truly knows vintage understands reality!

Again- for watches in 50's forget about box and papers as most papers are bs anyway from that era- handwritten booklets which are mostly faked imho. Finding pristine ultra rare watches from that era nearly impossible by itself!

x2!!

[hennabav]

Originally Posted by edouble141

I am a collector and I am a seller too. I often flip out of lesser watches to raise cash for more valuable and rare ones. I can tell you from being on both ends of this that B&P adds at least 20% to the buy or sell side.

I would prefer to have a 9/10 with B&P to a 10/10 without B&P. The premium you pay for the complete set always equates to better appreciation and more value in the end, even more so than a 10/10 does, IMO.

And I am the owner of a 6538 from 1959 with B&P and I can tell you that if and when I sell it the value will be increased in the tens of thousands just for having the complete set. 20% increase on a $3000 watch is only $600 but, 20% increase on a 100k watch is $20,000 and that is not play money.

Whenever you can buy B&P sets, they are rare and valuable.

I agree!! Let's see some pics of that BC you have!!

[HL65]

The market for $150k - $200k watches is quite small and most collectors know each other and who owns what. Again- try finding a pristine 6200, 4 line 6538, 5510, 6541 or perfect screw down PN. Not an easy task - trust me on that. For me- I will take the perfect 10 over a 9 with box and papers all day long as I wear the watch. I am not paying an extra amount for hand written papers when I have seen far too many BS ones out there with put together box and tags etc. That is me though and to each his own. I can count on one hand how many mint pristine examples of those references I have seen and many of us know who has them. Again as for 60's and 70's I almost always pay up for complete sets and do agree on those years of importance to collectibility.

[dricig]

Getting back to the OP's original question.

Do you prefer box and papers with your vintage?


All things being equal, the answer has to be YES!

I don't think anyone would prefer to not have box and papers with their vintage.


dave

[HL65]

Originally Posted by dricig

Getting back to the OP's original question.

Do you prefer box and papers with your vintage?


All things being equal, the answer has to be YES!

I don't think anyone would prefer to not have box and papers with their vintage.


dave

Correct!

[roh123]

The main question should be if you feel it's worth paying the premium for b+p on a vintage piece. Right? :)

[GeoGio Greece]

Its good to have b+p. They tell a story. But the watch works also without them.

[dddrees]

For me for my one and only vintage, having box and papers was kinda nice to have.

[Keeperoftime]

I prefer box and papers but will not pay the premium they bring!

[springer]

Originally Posted by Pilot518

Just thought i'd query the forum on this. I have started purchasing vintage Rolex watches. the ones i currently have do NOT have original kit (papers, boxes, warranty cards..etc) This has not been an issue to me. i plan to wear them. your thoughts??

I prefer the warranty paper with accessories.

[springer]

Originally Posted by SteelerFan65

The market for $150k - $200k watches is quite small and most collectors know each other and who owns what. Again- try finding a pristine 6200, 4 line 6538, 5510, 6541 or perfect screw down PN. Not an easy task - trust me on that. For me- I will take the perfect 10 over a 9 with box and papers all day long as I wear the watch. I am not paying an extra amount for hand written papers when I have seen far too many BS ones out there with put together box and tags etc. That is me though and to each his own. I can count on one hand how many mint pristine examples of those references I have seen and many of us know who has them. Again as for 60's and 70's I almost always pay up for complete sets and do agree on those years of importance to collectibility.

The market for $20,000 watches is very small also, let alone watches exceeding $100,000. Once you cross $10,000 you lose a substantial number of buyers, and as the prices increase, the buyers decrease. I call it "Springer's Inverse Law of Watch Economics."

As far as accessories go, whether it is a 1950's or circa 1960's Rolex, the more you have in the way of accessories the greater the price.

In reply to the original post in this thread regarding accessories, many prefer them, but one has to be realistic too. Sometimes, it's just not all there.

[cruvon]

Two watches being in similar condition and the only differentiator between them being one with B&P and one without, then would surely prefer the watch with B&P for collectability reasons. The only real constraint would possibly be financial if had to chose a loose watch over a B&P one. Also, if one were to offload their watches for whatever reason to a wider market of novice collectors using ebay etc., would be easier offloading one with papers than one without.