Real Root Beer?

[Andelain]

Hi all!

Can some of you experts take a look at this GMT II and give opinions?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rolex-GMT-Ma...item43ac551015


Thanks

[RRGHOST1]

Bought an identical watch in 1985,because it was a slightly different Sub. Looks ok on the model number,have you checked the serial numbers check out with the year 1989.Mine had a plexi glass,and was 14k and not 18k.

[MoBe]

Pictures look good now you have find out what you can about the seller.

I`m always wary of the the words gift,present.inherited,hand me down,etc.

Make haste slowly.

[imono]

It said 9" band.
It could not have been more than 8 1/2".

[93 Turbo]

Note the case back is from a 16710 not a 16713, there is also no year and quarter stamp below the 16710, may have ben replaced at some stage?

[Andelain]

Originally Posted by MoBe

Pictures look good now you have find out what you can about the seller.

I`m always wary of the the words gift,present.inherited,hand me down,etc.

Make haste slowly.

I see the seller has sold a few expensive things and gotten good feedback, but no Rolexes. He did sell a Tag, though.

I noticed all the pics were taken with a SONY DSC-T77, which is the same camera use to take pics for his other auctions. They were also all taken within 15 minutes of each other.

Originally Posted by imono

It said 9" band.
It could not have been more than 8 1/2".

Added links maybe? My T-Bird came with an extra link.

Originally Posted by 93 Turbo

Note the case back is from a 16710 not a 16713, there is also no year and quarter stamp below the 16710, may have ben replaced at some stage?

Does Rolex always stamp the cases with the exact model number or just the series? My T-Bird is a 16203, but the case is stamped 16200.

What quarter stamp are you referring to?


Any other opinions? They're all greatly appreciated.

[MoBe]

Originally Posted by MoBe

Pictures look good now you have find out what you can about the seller.

I`m always wary of the the words gift,present.inherited,hand me down,etc.

Make haste slowly.

I should have said this before but there is definitely something suspicious about a case,supposedly more than 20 years old,that appears to be in pristine condition,showing no sign of bracelet end link wear,and yet has a bracelet apparently well worn and a case back also apparently well worn.

It would appear that the watch and bracelet have only recently been married and perhaps the caseback as well.

I would be asking this seller for the answers to a lot of very specific questions and if the right answers didn`t materialize I`d walk.

At the very least I would have to conclude from the evidence that this is a watch assembled from parts of other watches,in other words a Frankenwatch.Allthough the case appears to be genuine,it`s too good for it`s age condition is questionable and if so then the seller should have an explanation for this.There is no mention of it in the ad,in other words no full disclosure.

"1 Triangular,2 Baguette Rubies" ,where are they?There are none in the photo of the dial.The seller seems confused.

Too many questions all around and a watch that looks too good to be true.

[liptonnr]

There are some question! But I believe the watch is legit! May be worth a chance! End links appear correct! Serial number is in line with the age as listed!

[MoBe]

Originally Posted by liptonnr

There are some question! But I believe the watch is legit! May be worth a chance! End links appear correct! Serial number is in line with the age as listed!

I agree it looks legit but feels wrong nonetheless.

It looks like what we`re seeing is a watch and bracelet that originally had nothing to do with each other among other things.

[Andelain]

Originally Posted by MoBe

I should have said this before but there is definitely something suspicious about a case,supposedly more than 20 years old,that appears to be in pristine condition,showing no sign of bracelet end link wear,and yet has a bracelet apparently well worn and a case back also apparently well worn.

It would appear that the watch and bracelet have only recently been married and perhaps the caseback as well.

I would be asking this seller for the answers to a lot of very specific questions and if the right answers didn`t materialize I`d walk.

At the very least I would have to conclude from the evidence that this is a watch assembled from parts of other watches,in other words a Frankenwatch.Allthough the case appears to be genuine,it`s too good for it`s age condition is questionable and if so then the seller should have an explanation for this.There is no mention of it in the ad,in other words no full disclosure.

"1 Triangular,2 Baguette Rubies" ,where are they?There are none in the photo of the dial.The seller seems confused.

Too many questions all around and a watch that looks too good to be true.

I'm looking back over the pics and need a bit of help here. I'm trying to see where you're talking about not showing any wear. Guess I don't know watch terminology as well as I thought I did. Can you show me?

I did email the seller and ask if the watch pictured was the actual watch I'd get and he said it is. What else could I ask him?

Thanks very much!

[77T]

Maybe ask where he sees the following from his description...
• 1 Triangular, 2 Baguette Rubies

I think he is out of his depth and has copied text from other auctions. It may be legit but I'm not that type of gambler.

His feedback and track record doesn't reflect a scammer. PLus, IMHO, a scammer wouldn't put a reserve of an auction for a fake - he'd take anything...

[MoBe]

Originally Posted by Andelain

I'm looking back over the pics and need a bit of help here. I'm trying to see where you're talking about not showing any wear. Guess I don't know watch terminology as well as I thought I did. Can you show me?

I did email the seller and ask if the watch pictured was the actual watch I'd get and he said it is. What else could I ask him?

Thanks very much!

In the two pictures that show the watch without the bracelet you see the serial number in one and the model number in the other and in both of those pictures there is absolutely zero evidence of any bracelet wear on the case.This is impossible on a watch that old with that type of bracelet.

Ask the seller to explain this,if he can,I`d love to here that story.

[Andelain]

Originally Posted by 77T

Maybe ask where he sees the following from his description...
• 1 Triangular, 2 Baguette Rubies

I think he is out of his depth and has copied text from other auctions. It may be legit but I'm not that type of gambler.

His feedback and track record doesn't reflect a scammer. PLus, IMHO, a scammer wouldn't put a reserve of an auction for a fake - he'd take anything...

I think you're right about him copying. You can also see the bracelet description repeated in it. At least that part is correct.

No, he doesn't seem like a scammer. I'm more concerned about hom not knowing enough about the watch to be able to answer accurately.

Originally Posted by MoBe

In the two pictures that show the watch without the bracelet you see the serial number in one and the model number in the other and in both of those pictures there is absolutely zero evidence of any bracelet wear on the case.This is impossible on a watch that old with that type of bracelet.

Ask the seller to explain this,if he can,I`d love to here that story.

I just sent him this message "Hi again,
I'm still looking at the watch and something looks a little odd to me. How is it that no wear shows on the sides of the case where the bracelet attaches. That seems impossible in a watch that shows the wear that one does."

Hopefully he'll have a good answer. But I did go look at some pics from sellers I trust and some of the older ones also don't show wear there. Is it possible the lugs on GMT's are far enough away to prevent rubbing?

Thank you.

[Andelain]

I just got this back from the seller "I don't understand what you mean..... If you are worried about authenticity you have my full refund policy".

I'm also wondering if this is really a problem, because even my 1991 T-Bird doesn't show this wear.

[MoBe]

Originally Posted by Andelain

I just got this back from the seller "I don't understand what you mean..... If you are worried about authenticity you have my full refund policy".

I'm also wondering if this is really a problem, because even my 1991 T-Bird doesn't show this wear.

I`ve said what I had to say and don`t forget that I agree the watch looks legit.As long as you reckon the seller is genuine and not fudging his story then go for it,I guess you can always return it if you change your mind.

Good luck!

[HORNBLOWER]

The watch looks fine. TT bracelets wear out quicker than ss so its not unusual for a replacement tt braclet to be fitted. A replacment wouldnt over concern me as long as its a genuine rolex bracelet. Find out what the clasp code is. The bezel looks quite fresh for a vintage watch. Lightly worn vintage watches do appear from time to time but do your homework first. The promise of funds returned if not satisfied ..... you should be sure BEFORE you part with money.

[93 Turbo]

Andelian, in reply to your earlier. The Watch is a L series, putting the case in the very early 1990's.

Being a root beer I, without looking in detail thought the watch would be a earlier model. Similar date to my GMT II, which has faded Pepsi bezel, faded markers and sapphire crystal. Which will start to fall into the vintage category in the coming years.

Vintage pieces have stamped on the inside case back the year of manufacture: 68 = 1968, and the quarter of that year the watch was produced denoted by II = the second quarter of that year. And would look something like this stamped on the case back:

II 68

I do not know when Rolex ceased this practise, I am sure it would have been well before the early 90's.

To confirm that this seller has the watch in their possession have them email you a pic of the watch with a piece of paper with todays date written on it. If they are unwilling to do this, I would jettison from this deal.

Good luck mate. Jules

[Andelain]

Originally Posted by MoBe

I`ve said what I had to say and don`t forget that I agree the watch looks legit.As long as you reckon the seller is genuine and not fudging his story then go for it,I guess you can always return it if you change your mind.

Good luck!

Yep, you did and it's much appreciated. I took a long look and learned a few things during the looking. In the end I feel comfortable with the watch and more educated too. Thank you.

Originally Posted by HORNBLOWER

The watch looks fine. TT bracelets wear out quicker than ss so its not unusual for a replacement tt braclet to be fitted. A replacment wouldnt over concern me as long as its a genuine rolex bracelet. Find out what the clasp code is. The bezel looks quite fresh for a vintage watch. Lightly worn vintage watches do appear from time to time but do your homework first. The promise of funds returned if not satisfied ..... you should be sure BEFORE you part with money.

Thanks for that input. I did get the seller to agree to a three day inspection period, plus I paid with paypal and my credit card to hedge my bets. I looked at a couple of the pics and thought the bezel looked old, and in a couple it looked fresher, but always seems to be the same bezel. Go figure. I'm not overly concerned if the bezel has been replaced, since the watch is a beater and priced accordingly, as long as the replacement is authentic and correct.

Thank you for your input.

Originally Posted by 93 Turbo

Andelian, in reply to your earlier. The Watch is a L series, putting the case in the very early 1990's.

Being a root beer I, without looking in detail thought the watch would be a earlier model. Similar date to my GMT II, which has faded Pepsi bezel, faded markers and sapphire crystal. Which will start to fall into the vintage category in the coming years.

Vintage pieces have stamped on the inside case back the year of manufacture: 68 = 1968, and the quarter of that year the watch was produced denoted by II = the second quarter of that year. And would look something like this stamped on the case back:

II 68

I do not know when Rolex ceased this practise, I am sure it would have been well before the early 90's.

To confirm that this seller has the watch in their possession have them email you a pic of the watch with a piece of paper with todays date written on it. If they are unwilling to do this, I would jettison from this deal.

Good luck mate. Jules

Hi Turbo, is 25 years old the magic number for being called vintage? Rolex did get away from date stamping the cases by 91, here's my T-Bird from that year, and it has no date.



I did talk quite a bit to the seller and decided to take the leap, this'll be my second ebay Rolex. My first GMT.



Thank you for the input, everyone who chimed in! Cross your fingers that all goes well and I add my sixth Rolex to my collection.

Here's a few of the ebay pics for posterity.

[MoBe]

Well Andelain did you win it?

Let us know.

[Andelain]

Originally Posted by MoBe

Well Andelain did you win it?

Let us know.

Click here. , and take a look.