Narrowing Down My Choices - know the features I want, but not the PAM

[GermanyMatt]

I'm about to go cross-eyed after looking through a dozen or pages of Panerai models for sale on fleabay. I'm about 90% sure what I want as far as features, but Panerai has produced so many different models, that I'm having a terrible time discovering if what I want exists or not - well that's not true, I know it exists but afraid I might miss a model or two..

So here's the features I want -

Leaning towards 1950s case, but not completely opposed to Rad. Are straps generally easier to change on the 1950s vs Rad? Kinda seems that way...

Not a daylight model

44mm case - I prefer brushed aluminum, which may rule out the Rad

No Date, no Chrono, no GMT - only added feature I want is a seconds dial at the 9 o'clock position. A power reserve is acceptable.

Rather have a manual wind as I feel it's more aligned to Panerai's heritage, but not totally opposed to automatic

Rather avoid ETA and Valjoux movements - nothing against them, just looking for something more unique. Doesn't have to be in-house, but I know there are some nice movements installed in some of their designs - JLC, etc..

Budget is probably around 6500-7500USD, although i might pay a bit more for the right watch - absolutely going the gently pre-owned route.

Any help?

[ocwatching]

PAM 190 but its polish Rad case..and that's outside of your price range

nothing else in your ball park with in-house except for the newer 42mm rads..
I was going to suggest 233 but you don't need GMT and date

but if you wait...Panerai will release the model you want...


rest of the gang here will chime in..I probably forgot something

[Watchcraze007]

Think 372, or 422. But smaller. Can't think of a 1950 case that is that sexy and full of Panerai DNA like those two.
P.S.: DON'T rule out 47mm. I've seen them ride beautifully on 6" wrists (like mine!). Many people broke that misconception already.
Good luck. And enjoy, surely.

[GermanyMatt]

That 422 looks great!

Not totally opposed to either date function or GMT, but absolutely don't want a chrono with the busy dial and everything else that goes along with a chronograph.

I've looked at the 190 multiple times and it's a beauty. Just outside my price range - well, it's more than I want to spend anyway.

[Watchcraze007]

I HATE chronos! So had it with watches with three round circles, and it's usually the more contrast between circle and rest of dial the better. Enough! We have similar tastes, I guess. Only complication I like really is power reserve, a small discrete one, that is also well placed on the dial, not dominant. Power reserve on the back of the 422, a VERY classic DNA-super Pam is not a bad idea! I MAY have gone for it had I come across it before I bought the 372 just last week, but still, that dial without even that seconds hand at 9 is just minimal, classic, classy and "historical" (Panerai history).

[Travelller]

Originally Posted by GermanyMatt

... 1950s case [1st] Rad [2nd]
straps generally easier to change on the 1950s vs Rad?
Not a daylight model
44mm case - I prefer brushed aluminum [titanium]
No Date, no Chrono, no GMT / a seconds dial / power reserve is acceptable.
manual [1st] automatic [2nd]
avoid ETA and Valjoux movements / Doesn't have to be in-house
Budget $6500-7500 [€6000K] / gently pre-owned route [very good to excellent condition]

Ok so... all special edition "SE" models are out - they almost always increase in price over time. This essentially means you cannot satisfy your own requirements.
Game over. Unless...
...you lower your standards with one of three options:

1. Accept the date complication. The P.9001 series (305, 312, 320, 321 351, 359, ...) with emphasis on the 351 which is Ti (€6.3K retail)

2. Accept an ETA movement. This opens up all logo / base / Black Seal models, most "Luminors" (Subs, Marinas, GMTs - all those have a date... and the cyclops... )

3. Raise the stakes a little, get in line and try to land a P.3000 model. Yes, 47mm, but I - and everyone else who's tried one on - will tell you that the new case makes the 47mm "look" like a 44mm.
372: 47mm Luminor 1950 new Gen. ~€7.3K
422: 47mm Luminor 1950 new Gen. w/secs subdial ~€7.8K
424: 47mm Radiomir Cali dial ~€6.2K
425: 47mm Radiomir dial (dash-dot) ~€6.2k


If it were me...
...I'd go with a P.3000 372 or 422 first, the 351(Ti) or 305 (all-brushed sub) P.9000 second and a base 176/177 (both Ti) third. Make sure you try a P.9000 model on as they sit a little bit higher (due to the rotor).

Good luck with your quest


EDIT:

Strap change...
Radiomir = four screws to remove the "lug-bars" or whathaveyou...
Luminor (older models, newer 47mm models) - screw-bars
Luminor (newer models) - quick-release system. Easiest, but maybe not the sturdiest...

[Watchcraze007]

Haha.. nice response Travelller!

[GermanyMatt]

Thanks for the travelller - some good recommendations in your comments.

I do like the look of the 422, and it satisfies pretty much all of my requirements.

I've actually looked at the 312, 320, 359 in the past. It's close between the three of these, but I think I like the 422 better than any of these.

[Psmith]

Other than the movement and case finish, you have almost described a PAM 111 (assuming you want a sandwich dial and display caseback) or PAM 005 (painted dial and solid caseback)

I can accept a 'blueprinted' ETA movement in a manual wind PAM. They are simple, relaxed watches, so I think this should also extend to maintenance & repair

Strap change systems? I simply cannot abide the 4 little screws/wire lugs on Rads. I'd rather they brought back welded lugs and sew the straps on!
With Luminors, with practice, screw bars = 2 mins, quick change = 1 min

The PAM 422 also has many of the features you want, but is 47 mm and well over your stated budget (in excess of $10k)

But has been mentioned, Panerai will eventually release every possible combination of every feature, so if you wait then the 'perfect' model may come along...

[GermanyMatt]

Any thoughts on the PAM 351? I'm digging the brown dial and gold hands combo, but not sure about that Ti case.

PAM 312 is another option I'm looking at.. Both of these models have crossed my radar previously.

[GermanyMatt]

Worried I won't like the titanium for long, so I'm thinking about the 312. Not a manual wind movement, but still in-house and remains sharp looking and uncluttered.

This will be my first PAM, so perhaps it can be a good starter.

Thoughts?

[DiverAsia]

I really liked the 312 as well, and in fact had put in an order for one before I decided on my 372. Have you tried one on? They feel a lot bigger because of the 1950 case, they seem to sit higher on your wrist.
They are delicious with that OEM croc strap.
As for Titanium cases, I love the color and it was on my short list of watches as well.

[Travelller]

Originally Posted by Travelller

...I'd go with a P.3000 372 or 422 first, the 351(Ti) or 305 (all-brushed sub) P.9000 second and a base 176/177 (both Ti) third. Make sure you try a P.9000 model on as they sit a little bit higher (due to the rotor)...

...I'd go with a P.3000 372 or 422 first, the 312 second

I agree that Ti might not be the right material for your first PAM. Again I think it's important that you "try before you buy" (re size, etc)

//OT
Re. your avatar - I was in MUC last month and I can say that I don't care much for the Maß (beer) but I do so love ladies in their Dirndl...
OT//

[GermanyMatt]

Well, the 372 or 422 is going to cost me $10K, and I'm just not ready to drop that much coin on my first PAM - if I fall in love with the brand, like I have with my 16613 bluesy, then anything is possible. I even looked at the 233, but the dial is rather cluttered and it's close enough in price (pre-owned prices) to the 422 that I'd rather have the 422 anyway.

Hmm. Think I might have just talked myself into a 312.

The beer fests around here are known to get pretty wild in the evening after the kiddies have gone to bed.

[kilyung]

Depending on your wrist size and shape the 312 may wear top heavy. Meaning it could shift around if not worn snugly. I enjoyed mine. However I'd get the 422 instead.

[Watches24seven]

you can get any polished finish changed to have a brushed finish. It is a bit of a hassle.

But you may want to consider a PAM 233.

[DiverAsia]

Originally Posted by Watches24seven

you can get any polished finish changed to have a brushed finish. It is a bit of a hassle.

But you may want to consider a PAM 233.

Is that done at the AD? Or do you mean a shop can do that for you?

Can you change a brushed into a polish as well? I like a few models that are polished bezels and brushed cases, but I wish they were just polished all over.


Cheers!

[kilyung]

Originally Posted by DiverAsia

Is that done at the AD? Or do you mean a shop can do that for you?

Can you change a brushed into a polish as well? I like a few models that are polished bezels and brushed cases, but I wish they were just polished all over.


Cheers!

Any shop should be able to brush -> polish and vice versa. In fact, I've done it myself.

[Cru Jones]

Originally Posted by kilyung

Depending on your wrist size and shape the 312 may wear top heavy. Meaning it could shift around if not worn snugly. I enjoyed mine. However I'd get the 422 instead.

x2

depending on your wrist, the 312 may sit high. i like everything about the 312 except how it looks on me. while i haven't tried the 372/422, i've heard from many people that the case "fits" better. 233 is a good bet, too.

[GermanyMatt]

Decided to go with the 312 - I've tried them on before, and with my flat wrist, that's just short of 7", it's fits fine. I'll see how it goes from there on the more exclusive models. Really not interested in the 233 though - I know it's got the 8 day manual wind movement, but that's about the only part that I find appealing.

thanks for all the advice and recommendations!

[Cru Jones]

Originally Posted by GermanyMatt

Decided to go with the 312 - I've tried them on before, and with my flat wrist, that's just short of 7", it's fits fine. I'll see how it goes from there on the more exclusive models. Really not interested in the 233 though - I know it's got the 8 day manual wind movement, but that's about the only part that I find appealing.

thanks for all the advice and recommendations!

Congrats!! Great choice. I'm jealous becaus I wish it fit me.

[DiverAsia]

Originally Posted by GermanyMatt

Decided to go with the 312 - I've tried them on before, and with my flat wrist, that's just short of 7", it's fits fine. I'll see how it goes from there on the more exclusive models. Really not interested in the 233 though - I know it's got the 8 day manual wind movement, but that's about the only part that I find appealing.

thanks for all the advice and recommendations!

312! Good choice. I had ordered one before I got my 372. They're beautiful!

Originally Posted by kilyung

Any shop should be able to brush -> polish and vice versa. In fact, I've done it myself.

Oh OK, That makes my watch choices that much better for my next one.
Do you have any photos of one of yours that you have taken from brushed to polish?
When I was young, I had a job at a gun shop polishing off the 'blue' from guns and polishing out the scratches. I used some very big polishing wheels to do that. I guess they use the same kind of wheels, but smaller to polish watches.

[Travelller]

Originally Posted by GermanyMatt

Decided to go with the 312 - I've tried them on before, and with my flat wrist, that's just short of 7", it's fits fine...

Congrats / Gratuliere!
The 312 is a GREAT way to start your PAM collection Looking forward to some pics when you get it

[GermanyMatt]

It has arrived! Pics to come soon.

I'm a happy camper.

[Travelller]

Originally Posted by GermanyMatt

It has arrived! ... I'm a happy camper...

Just do yourself a favor; maybe you should avoid wearing it during Oktoberfest lest it comes in contact with someone else's Maß... Please don't wear it after you've had several Maß and try to ride home on your bicycle...



Enjoy the hell out of it (und Oktoberfest auch )