Looking for Thoughts on Next Purchase - Cartier vs. IWC

[Cuts33]

I have been going back and forth for awhile on my next purchase and "just get both" unfortunately is not an option.

I have narrowed it down to 2 pretty different watches.

The Calibre De Cartier with white dial on a strap and the new IWC Pilot 3777 on a strap.

For the Cartier, there is something about the white dial that I love but cannot put my finger on it. The detailing is truly remarkable and I am a big proponent of in-house movements. I know the history of Cartier and watches is a bit murky but they seem to be moving in the right direction.

For the IWC, I have always been a sucker for pilot watches and while not a 3717, I still see this as a "classic" pilot watch. The only thing that really gives me some hesitation is the price tag for a Valjoux movement given that IWC no longer puts the pieces together in-house but relies on ETA to build to their specs. Something about this just bothers me for some reason.

I realize these are completely different options but any opinions or thoughts are very much welcome. Also, just to add, the Cartier would be the only white/silver dial watch in my collection. Both will be the only "strap" watches in my collection as the rest are on bracelets. I do already have more of a "dress" watch that is a black dial. I would like to be able to wear my new purchase with a suit to work (typically 3-4 times per week) but as I said, do have another option if the situation requires it.

Thank you in advance for any input.

[JohnnyHathoway]

I have both on my "long list" of watches I hope to own. I have the CDC ranked much higher than the Pilot, but that's because I dont really have a dress watch. I find the CDC to be very elegant with its black roman numerals on that white dial. Their inhouse movement is a great step towards improving the brand, even the watchsnob has changed his opinion of Cartier. Its worth mentioning that I currently don't have any white dial watches... yet.

The pilots are my favorite line of IWC. I love how they're informal and won't attract much attention, but also knowing it's amazing watch that desrves to be respected at the sametime. Like the CDC, the 3777 is at a great price point.

For some reason I thought the new 3777 is now completely inhouse?

Anyways, like you said two very different watches that are almost impossible to compare astecically, but since I have both watches on my list I thought I'd respond with my opinions.

Getting both is always an option! Lol! Just depends on how long you're willing to wait for the other.

[p_mcgee]

Tough choice. The Cartier is close, but the big XII on the dial bugs me. Something about the 3777 dial looks out of balance. Not sure why...maybe because I always loved the 3717.

I'd probably pick the IWC because I'm sure either one would be flipped eventually & I assume the IWC would sell more easily.

[nick c]

I will go

[dannyp]

As to the specific pieces you mentioned, I'd probably go with the IWC just because they are among my favorite watchmakers, even if their chrono is still an outsourced base movement. An alternative is to wait a couple of years until more of their pieces have in-house movements, though that may send prices up.

However I cannot respond to one of these threads without offering a couple of suggestions of my own, so bear with me...

I would also consider the IWC Portuguese hand-wound (if you're OK with a manual wind watch); it's quite stunning. If you wanted to spend a bit more (though it may be too much) the Portuguese 7-day is also a beautiful piece.

Thinking way outside of the box, if IWC would do the swap, and you'd be OK with having the swap done, consider the Ingenieur Vintage in stainless with the silver dial from the platinum version substituted in.

A final suggestion, though again the price is a little bit higher (though discounts usually better) would be the JLC Master Chronograph. Not sure if the styling is to your liking, but it seems a blend of the two pieces you're considering. I would consider it another level of watchmaking to either of the other two, though.

[B. Doggy]

IWC is a great brand!

[kilyung]

[Cuts33]

Originally Posted by dannyp

A final suggestion, though again the price is a little bit higher (though discounts usually better) would be the JLC Master Chronograph. Not sure if the styling is to your liking, but it seems a blend of the two pieces you're considering. I would consider it another level of watchmaking to either of the other two, though.

I have looked at the JLC as well and agree it's a nice compromise of the two watches. However, it's either a very popular or very unpopular model since I cannot find one pre-owned anywhere. So either everyone that has it loves it and won't sell it or nobody has it. Can't figure out which one. Regardless, buying new is out of the question for that one right now.

[dannyp]

Originally Posted by Cuts33

I have looked at the JLC as well and agree it's a nice compromise of the two watches. However, it's either a very popular or very unpopular model since I cannot find one pre-owned anywhere. So either everyone that has it loves it and won't sell it or nobody has it. Can't figure out which one. Regardless, buying new is out of the question for that one right now.

I believe that model came out in 2012 so there may just not be many on the market. Also, what was the Cartier going to run you new? I would have thought the two would be within a grand of each other since JLC can often be found at a MUCH better discount than Cartier through an AD.

[lorsban]

Been choosing between the Calibre (in black) and an Ingenieur 3227-01, myself.

One thing about Cartier though, women seem to love it. My wife absolutely loves the Calibre for me. Most probably it's because Cartier have made a name for themselves in jewelry and women's watches. So, they know which buttons to push when it comes to women.

But, between the pilot and the Calibre, I'd go with Cartier since it has the in-house movement. I've kind of stopped even looking at ETA equipped watches that cost more than $1,000. Let's say the movement from ETA costs $200, even $400, how can they charge $4-5,000 for the whole watch? I don't know, it just doesn't compute for me.

Breitling and Omega already make their own movements now and their watches cost less than that.

[Cuts33]

Originally Posted by dannyp

I believe that model came out in 2012 so there may just not be many on the market. Also, what was the Cartier going to run you new? I would have thought the two would be within a grand of each other since JLC can often be found at a MUCH better discount than Cartier through an AD.

The discounts I've found for Cartier and JLC are pretty much the same.

[Cuts33]

Originally Posted by lorsban

But, between the pilot and the Calibre, I'd go with Cartier since it has the in-house movement. I've kind of stopped even looking at ETA equipped watches that cost more than $1,000. Let's say the movement from ETA costs $200, even $400, how can they charge $4-5,000 for the whole watch? I don't know, it just doesn't compute for me.

Breitling and Omega already make their own movements now and their watches cost less than that.

I have the same nagging thought in the back of my mind about the IWC movement in the pilot.

Also, speaking of Omega, I was at the Chicago boutique last week and tried on the new planet ocean on a strap. Loved it. Now I'm torn between 3 watches.

[p_mcgee]

Originally Posted by lorsban

Let's say the movement from ETA costs $200, even $400, how can they charge $4-5,000 for the whole watch? I don't know, it just doesn't compute for me.

This has been covered to death, but there are different grades of ETA movements & not all are the same quality & price. Many manufacturers start with an ETA movement and then modify them to different degrees.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ETA_SA

[Cuts33]

Originally Posted by p_mcgee

This has been covered to death, but there are different grades of ETA movements & not all are the same quality & price. Many manufacturers start with an ETA movement and then modify them to different degrees.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ETA_SA

I don't want to take this thread off topic too much and while I agree with you highlighting that the Valjoux 7750 inside an IWC is not the same as the one inside let's say a Hamilton, I think the larger point is that at around $6,000.00, you expect or at least want the watch to have an in-house movement.

Cartier's in-house starts at $7100, Omega at around $5500 or $8k for a chrono, Breitling is at $7K for a chrono, a datejust II with smooth bezel is 7K and so on.

To tie all of this to my original post, it is the lack of an in-house movement in the IWC that is giving me hesitation about purchasing that particular model. While there is a pilot with an in-house movement, the $10K price tag is not justifiable in my personal opinion and I do not care for the slate dial. It is cool looking in person, but to me personally, is more of a novelty I would likely grow tired of relatively quickly.

[dannyp]

Originally Posted by Cuts33

The discounts I've found for Cartier and JLC are pretty much the same.

So have Cartier discounts gotten better of have JLC discounts gotten worse? Wasn't that long ago that one would find 10-15% on the former, 25-30% on the latter.

[lorsban]

Originally Posted by Cuts33

I don't want to take this thread off topic too much and while I agree with you highlighting that the Valjoux 7750 inside an IWC is not the same as the one inside let's say a Hamilton, I think the larger point is that at around $6,000.00, you expect or at least want the watch to have an in-house movement.

Cartier's in-house starts at $7100, Omega at around $5500 or $8k for a chrono, Breitling is at $7K for a chrono, a datejust II with smooth bezel is 7K and so on.

To tie all of this to my original post, it is the lack of an in-house movement in the IWC that is giving me hesitation about purchasing that particular model. While there is a pilot with an in-house movement, the $10K price tag is not justifiable in my personal opinion and I do not care for the slate dial. It is cool looking in person, but to me personally, is more of a novelty I would likely grow tired of relatively quickly.

Exactly.

Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using Tapatalk 2

[Ticking Away]

They are both beautiful watches, no doubt. If it were my decision I would pass on the IWC but only because multi date windows really bug me. Yes, I understand if it is the first then yesterday was the 31st and tomorrow is the second. But even in that case I'm only wrong 4x a year.

[dannyp]

Originally Posted by Ticking Away

They are both beautiful watches, no doubt. If it were my decision I would pass on the IWC but only because multi date windows really bug me. Yes, I understand if it is the first then yesterday was the 31st and tomorrow is the second. But even in that case I'm only wrong 4x a year.

Yes, that was a big turnoff for all of the new pilot watches. For a chrono, I'd more likely consider the latest Portofino version, since it includes a day as well as a date. However, particularly if one is willing to go grey market, it is almost certainly possible to find one, even two, generations back of pilot chronographs BNIB.

This is the last one (regular and Spitfire):

http://www.authenticwatches.com/iwc-...l#.UG2MzUJgNSU

http://www.authenticwatches.com/iwc-...l#.UG2NA0JgNSU

And two generations ago (but only available on a bracelet from this dealer):

http://www.authenticwatches.com/iwc-...l#.UG2NNkJgNSU

These guys also have the Spitfire UTC from two generations ago; an absolutely beautiful piece (albeit I prefer the regular dial to the Spitfire):

http://www.authenticwatches.com/iwc-...l#.UG2NWkJgNSU

[Cuts33]

Just an update - went back to take some more looks yesterday and I think I have knocked the Cartier out from consideration. It was surprising since I have been looking at this watch in person and online repeatedly for about the last 10 months.

But yesterday was the first time I actually had them try and fit the watch for me and it just wouldn't work. The watch would not sit in the middle of my wrist and would not sit flat even though I have flat wrists. This has never been a problem with any other watch I own. And unfortunately, I do not care for this watch at all on the metal bracelet.

[gb57]

The Calibre is actually the next piece that I am looking to get, but then again that's what I said before the 312 and then again before my DJII.

Just curious as to what type of discount you were able to find on the Calibre as I was thinking of going the preowned route as my usual AD does not carry Cartier

[Cuts33]

Originally Posted by gb57

The Calibre is actually the next piece that I am looking to get, but then again that's what I said before the 312 and then again before my DJII.

Just curious as to what type of discount you were able to find on the Calibre as I was thinking of going the preowned route as my usual AD does not carry Cartier

20% was typical. Slightly higher at some places but not quite 25%.

I'll shoot you a PM.

[lorsban]

Originally Posted by Cuts33

Just an update - went back to take some more looks yesterday and I think I have knocked the Cartier out from consideration. It was surprising since I have been looking at this watch in person and online repeatedly for about the last 10 months.

But yesterday was the first time I actually had them try and fit the watch for me and it just wouldn't work. The watch would not sit in the middle of my wrist and would not sit flat even though I have flat wrists. This has never been a problem with any other watch I own. And unfortunately, I do not care for this watch at all on the metal bracelet.

Good you did that. With watches, its imperative you try before you buy.

In my case, the fit was actually one of the things that attracted me to it.



Tried on the Ingenieur on strap and it didn't look too good. Hoping to find a steel bracelet version so I can have a proper comparison. But even then, poor fit on strap is a big negative in my book.

Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using Tapatalk 2

[nick c]

Nice Cartier

[lorsban]

Originally Posted by nick c

Nice Cartier

Yup definite winner from Cartier. Top of my list at the moment.

Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using Tapatalk 2

[jolimont]

cartier

[Mat Allston]

I say get the pilot. As a woman, I prefer to see a guy wearing an IWC, it's not that common and IWC makes beautiful watches especially in leather straps. May I suggest the IWC Portuguese Chronograph as well?

[Cuts33]

Originally Posted by Mat Allston

I say get the pilot. As a woman, I prefer to see a guy wearing an IWC, it's not that common and IWC makes beautiful watches especially in leather straps. May I suggest the IWC Portuguese Chronograph as well?

I do like the 2 dial chrono but am not a fan of the dial choices. I think they need to make the sub dials stand out a bit more.

[dannyp]

Originally Posted by Cuts33

I do like the 2 dial chrono but am not a fan of the dial choices. I think they need to make the sub dials stand out a bit more.

And in spite of the price difference, I'd recommend saving up for the 7 day version in lieu of the chrono (or buying pre-owned if you like that route). The case is much cleaner without the chrono buttons (and more polished in general) and the movement is so much more unique.

[JP Chestnut]

Originally Posted by Cuts33

I have been going back and forth for awhile on my next purchase and "just get both" unfortunately is not an option.

I have narrowed it down to 2 pretty different watches.

The Calibre De Cartier with white dial on a strap and the new IWC Pilot 3777 on a strap.

For the Cartier, there is something about the white dial that I love but cannot put my finger on it. The detailing is truly remarkable and I am a big proponent of in-house movements. I know the history of Cartier and watches is a bit murky but they seem to be moving in the right direction.

For the IWC, I have always been a sucker for pilot watches and while not a 3717, I still see this as a "classic" pilot watch. The only thing that really gives me some hesitation is the price tag for a Valjoux movement given that IWC no longer puts the pieces together in-house but relies on ETA to build to their specs. Something about this just bothers me for some reason.

I realize these are completely different options but any opinions or thoughts are very much welcome. Also, just to add, the Cartier would be the only white/silver dial watch in my collection. Both will be the only "strap" watches in my collection as the rest are on bracelets. I do already have more of a "dress" watch that is a black dial. I would like to be able to wear my new purchase with a suit to work (typically 3-4 times per week) but as I said, do have another option if the situation requires it.

Thank you in advance for any input.

Have you considered the Spitfire version? I haven't been a fan of the Spitfires in the past, but the new one really brings something good to the table relative to the classic dial - an in house movement.

[Cuts33]

Originally Posted by JP Chestnut

Have you considered the Spitfire version? I haven't been a fan of the Spitfires in the past, but the new one really brings something good to the table relative to the classic dial - an in house movement.

I have considered it - just don't really care for the slate dial. It's nice and really cool looking but I see myself getting tired of it within a year.