Difference between F and Z serial presidential? Was I duped?

[Onyx]

I bought a style style 11823883AB8320 watch (yellow gold president day date, black diamond dial)
I thought it was a 2005 year model. It turns out it is a 2003.
The listing was like this:
Rolex President 118238 Day Date Black Diamond Dial! 2005 "F"
Sure, the papers show it was bought new in 2005 but isn't that misleading if it is actually a 2003 model? I should have looked up the serial number I suppose. Whats the difference and should I care? Seems like the seller was kind of leading me to believe it was a 2005 model. If it sold new in 2008 and sat on the shelf that entire time shouldn't it be more clear? I'm not an expert with the serial numbers obviously and should have looked it up. Should the price be different between an actual 2005 and 2003 production year model?

Thanks!

[superdog]

i think you are all set. but someone that knows more will be along soon.

[DJJon]

Relax and enjoy your new DayDate. Congratulations on the new ownership.

The "date code" relates only to the case stamping. The movement and the dial can be from any year, either before or after.

2003 vs 2005 is insignificant.

Have a glass of celebration and congratulate yourself for a fine pick up. Post pix if you can.

[Tools]

You are falling into the trap of the Internet Chart myth..

The F serials were first seen on the market in ~2003 (which is what charts are based on). It is physically impossible for Rolex to produce all serial numbers in a single year; so, clearly, an F serial is absolutely not an indicator that a watch is a "2003" model..

Rolex produced and released as many as 3 serial prefixes at any given time so the F was produced concurrently with Y and D serials. The F serial was likely produced and sold well into 2006.

If you have paper (provenance) that your watch is a 2005, then you become a data point that demonstrates that fact, not a point of argument with a Dealer because some Internet chart says that they were first seen in 2003..

There is no real difference between an F and a Z serial on this particular model.

[Onyx]

Originally Posted by DJJon

Relax and enjoy your new DayDate. Congratulations on the new ownership.

The "date code" relates only to the case stamping. The movement and the dial can be from any year, either before or after.

2003 vs 2005 is insignificant.

Have a glass of celebration and congratulate yourself for a fine pick up. Post pix if you can.

I love you guys, hope this also helps someone else

I have a pic in another thread about the price if interested

[fliphandywork]

Forget about it. Enjoy your awesome watch.

[fliphandywork]

Originally Posted by Onyx

I love you guys, hope this also helps someone else

Awesome.

[toph]

as Larry said, F were first seen in 2003 but gold or more expensive models will often be in shop windows for 2 or 3 years after with older serial numbers furthermore the case may have been stamped in 2003 but ow arch may not have been completed until later
Cheers

[Onyx]

What about any slight differences between f and z like hologram on back etc.?

[caryyee]

Originally Posted by toph

as Larry said, F were first seen in 2003 but gold or more expensive models will often be in shop windows for 2 or 3 years after with older serial numbers furthermore the case may have been stamped in 2003 but ow arch may not have been completed until later
Cheers

Yup, my Pt DD that I bought a few months ago brand new from an AD is a 'M' serial, so 'dating' back to 2008! Do I care? Nup, just going to enjoy it!

[toph]

Originally Posted by Onyx

What about any slight differences between f and z like hologram on back etc.?

F will not have the engraved Renault but the z might and m onwards definitely will

[mmmk604]

If you walk into your AD, you will likely find G serials still being sold (I know I did for various models of Rolex watches).
This doesn't mean the watches they are selling are a year or 2 old...

Do you understand now?
Enjoy your DD!

[zhiunit]

if u have an F serial that was stamped with date of purchase in 2000, THEN you have a problem =)

[AH0RSEY]

Originally Posted by toph

F will not have the engraved Renault but the z might and m onwards definitely will

Is that why they are so expensive they come with a free car?

(Predictive text don't ya love it )

[zeuloa]

Enjoy that chunk of gold!

[Brushpup]

Yes, all is well. I remember you looking, so how you like it so far? DD, man that is a fine watch!

[toph]

:

Originally Posted by AH0RSEY

Is that why they are so expensive they come with a free car?

(Predictive text don't ya love it )

that is just ludicrous Renault aka rehaut

[Onyx]

Originally Posted by Brushpup

Yes, all is well. I remember you looking, so how you like it so far? DD, man that is a fine watch!

It's great thanks. I'm not a fan of the Rolex name stamped around the renault anyway. Thats like stamping Mercedes all around the inside of the dashboard of the car.

[Andad]

Originally Posted by toph

:
that is just ludicrous Renault aka rehaut

C'mon Toph, fess up. That IS how youse spellet it.

[SPACE-DWELLER]

Could you please post a picture of the clasp opened?

[Roller07]

Don't worry about it. Just enjoy that fine piece.

I just want to see pics so i can dream a little.

[dannyp]

I would only worry about it under one of the following two circumstances:

1. There were mechanical changes to the model you picked up and you want to be sure to get one version instead of another (I cared about the serial # on my Explorer II because I wanted to make sure it would have a 3186 movement). As far as I know, the DD didn't experience such between 2003 and 2005, and any differences would have been minor cosmetic ones (like engraving, hologram, etc.).

2. I was buying the watch new from a dealer and not receiving a deeper discount on an older model. Under these circumstances, I'd want to make sure I got the newest one available on principle, unless of course the dealer was up front about how long it had been sitting and offered additional discounts as a result.

I would be particularly non-worried about your particular purchase if the watch was serviced at some point since its original purchase (though the difference between 7 and 9 years old is probably minimal for this anyways; you'll want to service within a couple years regardless if it's never gone in).

[Onyx]

Originally Posted by SPACE-DWELLER

Could you please post a picture of the clasp opened?

So you can see the numbers and rolex stamp etc.? I'll be happy to later, I'm curious a to why though

[UW_ike]

Can we see some wrist pics of your new watch.

[Onyx]

I put up a wrist shot and an open clasp shot as you requested!

Whats up with that hologram on the back? The film around it goes kind of far so I thought you are supposed to peel the clear film off. It looks like the hologram is stuck to it and some parts are peeled off and stuck to the watch. Is that normal? I didn't take it all the way off just peeked and put it back so as to not ruin the hologram. I imagine thats why they ended the holograms in 2006-2007.

[Passionata]

My F serial SubLV sold in jan/2005 spent one or two days at the AD,F serial is 2004 /5
No worry at all


Best
George

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[Tools]

Originally Posted by Onyx

I put up a wrist shot and an open clasp shot as you requested!

Whats up with that hologram on the back? The film around it goes kind of far so I thought you are supposed to peel the clear film off. It looks like the hologram is stuck to it and some parts are peeled off and stuck to the watch. Is that normal? I didn't take it all the way off just peeked and put it back so as to not ruin the hologram. I imagine thats why they ended the holograms in 2006-2007.

I think that Spacey was looking for the clasp code for the open clasp shot.. Sometimes the clasp code can give another data point when researching a watch..

As to the hologram, it's not really supposed to be left on the watch, although a lot of people seem to do that.. It would not have originally come with a clear sticker over the top of it.

[Onyx]

Originally Posted by Tools

I think that Spacey was looking for the clasp code for the open clasp shot.. Sometimes the clasp code can give another data point when researching a watch..

As to the hologram, it's not really supposed to be left on the watch, although a lot of people seem to do that.. It would not have originally come with a clear sticker over the top of it.

Thanks for your reply, so when I go to sell it the value is not effected by the hologram removal?

[Onyx]

That clear sticker is a bit far off the hologram. I'm not sure whats going on there, I think the hologram is falling apart and that holds it on or something. When I peel it off it leaves parts of the hologram on the watch so I left it for now.

[SPACE-DWELLER]

Originally Posted by Tools

I think that Spacey was looking for the clasp code for the open clasp shot.. Sometimes the clasp code can give another data point when researching a watch..

As to the hologram, it's not really supposed to be left on the watch, although a lot of people seem to do that.. It would not have originally come with a clear sticker over the top of it.

Good thinking with the clasp code, but actually that wasn't what I was thinking about... rather, I was thinking about the clasp style since around the F-series, the clasp was changed to the new style (as pictured above).

Here's an excellent summary of the Rolex Day-Date updates, written by Steva aka "Triple Black 88" in this other thread