Need advice quickly and badly

[Vernal]

I've been presented with an opportunity to buy a fully stickered 16610LV for a great price, but under the rules of "Buy the seller" I'm not sure what to do.

I got a call from a jewelry store employee that I've done a bit of business with, and was told someone who works at a sister store and does some purchasing for them had found an LV, which I had previously expressed an interest in buying. My friend at the store is acting as a middleman, although not for profit and the deal will be between me and the seller. I've only spoken to the seller once, but the conversation was short and he was slightly a jerk.

He said the watch had no papers, it was just the watch and the box, but was in great condition. I said that it had to have the Rolex-engraved rehaut or I wasn't interested (I like them even if some don't) but I didn't care about papers. He was going to check on it. I asked how he would like to be paid and he said "I don't know you, I want cash or you can wire me payment ahead of time." The jerk label I give came from the "I don't know you" and the shortness/tone of the answer. I think this is obvious and I was just asking a question, since I would plan differently if he wanted a cashier's check, or cash, use a credit card machine at a store he works in, etc.

I got a call the next day from my friend saying it had the rehaut. I was excited and told a friend at work about it, and the first thing he said was "How do you know it won't be a 16610 that they put maxi hands, face, LV bezel on?" He said that had been known to happen, and the only way to tell if the watch was legit was by the tags and card it came with. I called my friend at the store and expressed my concerns, and my friend said they would call the seller and get back to me.

I was very clear in this call, saying that if there were no papers I would still be interested if, say, the seller knew the original owner, or had some sort of explanation about the watch that might clear up this question. My friend trusts this seller, but made it clear that this is just a situation of lining up a buyer with a seller and my friend was not involved. I clarified that I believed the watch would be a Rolex, that I didn't think it would be a fake Rolex but instead may be a cobbled together LV and not sold that way originally, and that I trusted the seller if my friend did, the seller may not even know that some modding had occurred, but I was leery about buying it in these conditions. I also gave my phone number and said that the seller was free to call me directly. Here's where it got weird.

My friend calls back and essentially told me the seller said "Take it or leave it, if I don't trust his word I don't have to buy the watch." No additional information, nothing but attitude. This was not what I was expecting. It was longer and worse than this, but this is the gist.

I told my friend this just made me more uncomfortable, and I was leaning towards ditching the deal if this was the attitude of the seller. I asked if he was just protecting his sources or something, was there any explanation for this response, but my friend had none.

Then today, the day I was supposed to meet the seller (but didn't because of the above made me decide to forget about it) I get another call from my friend telling me that the seller had the watch, and it is more than anticipated - it is still stickered and has everything except the warranty card. The seller will also take a check.

At this point we're in a telephone tag mode, each of us leaving messages. I said thanks anyway, but I'm going to pass because I had lost faith in the seller - why didn't he tell me this before? If it has the tags with it, they will show it is an LV, and settles the question. Why didn't he say this earlier?

I just got another message from my friend saying that he may have failed to communicate properly (English being a 2nd language) and that I can still buy the watch tomorrow despite all that has happened.

So what do I do? It sounds almost too good to be true, the price is fair to good for the merchandise, but I don't know the seller at all even though the surface credentials of the seller are good, he works part-time for a reputable jeweler also and ostensibly has a reputation to protect among the jewelers in the area. I don't even know his last name right now. However he has not talked to me directly except for the once, and still is using my friend as a go-between. Do I go take a look tomorrow and try to suss out the situation further? (I used to think I could spot a fake, but after seeing some of the stuff coming across the Watch Out section I'm no longer as confidant). Or do I pass and possibly regret what may be a once-in-a-lifetime deal? Or do I buy it and gamble with the money?

Thanks for any guidance you can provide.

[Lgear080]

How much of a discount? If its really significant don't waste your time.

I'd also want to know if it was stolen.

[chicfarmer1]

Anything that takes that much to describe is just clearly a no go.
Don't try to talk yourself into buying from someone you have no confidence in. The chances of fraud are huge.

At the very least, ask yourself how you would know if this watch was stolen or not, let alone authentic.

[swiss ghost]

Originally Posted by Vernal

I've been presented with an opportunity to buy a fully stickered 16610LV for a great price, but under the rules of "Buy the seller" I'm not sure what to do.

I got a call from a jewelry store employee that I've done a bit of business with, and was told someone who works at a sister store and does some purchasing for them had found an LV, which I had previously expressed an interest in buying. My friend at the store is acting as a middleman, although not for profit and the deal will be between me and the seller. I've only spoken to the seller once, but the conversation was short and he was slightly a jerk.

He said the watch had no papers, it was just the watch and the box, but was in great condition. I said that it had to have the Rolex-engraved rehaut or I wasn't interested (I like them even if some don't) but I didn't care about papers. He was going to check on it. I asked how he would like to be paid and he said "I don't know you, I want cash or you can wire me payment ahead of time." The jerk label I give came from the "I don't know you" and the shortness/tone of the answer. I think this is obvious and I was just asking a question, since I would plan differently if he wanted a cashier's check, or cash, use a credit card machine at a store he works in, etc.

I got a call the next day from my friend saying it had the rehaut. I was excited and told a friend at work about it, and the first thing he said was "How do you know it won't be a 16610 that they put maxi hands, face, LV bezel on?" He said that had been known to happen, and the only way to tell if the watch was legit was by the tags and card it came with. I called my friend at the store and expressed my concerns, and my friend said they would call the seller and get back to me.

I was very clear in this call, saying that if there were no papers I would still be interested if, say, the seller knew the original owner, or had some sort of explanation about the watch that might clear up this question. My friend trusts this seller, but made it clear that this is just a situation of lining up a buyer with a seller and my friend was not involved. I clarified that I believed the watch would be a Rolex, that I didn't think it would be a fake Rolex but instead may be a cobbled together LV and not sold that way originally, and that I trusted the seller if my friend did, the seller may not even know that some modding had occurred, but I was leery about buying it in these conditions. I also gave my phone number and said that the seller was free to call me directly. Here's where it got weird.

My friend calls back and essentially told me the seller said "Take it or leave it, if I don't trust his word I don't have to buy the watch." No additional information, nothing but attitude. This was not what I was expecting. It was longer and worse than this, but this is the gist.

I told my friend this just made me more uncomfortable, and I was leaning towards ditching the deal if this was the attitude of the seller. I asked if he was just protecting his sources or something, was there any explanation for this response, but my friend had none.

Then today, the day I was supposed to meet the seller (but didn't because of the above made me decide to forget about it) I get another call from my friend telling me that the seller had the watch, and it is more than anticipated - it is still stickered and has everything except the warranty card. The seller will also take a check.

At this point we're in a telephone tag mode, each of us leaving messages. I said thanks anyway, but I'm going to pass because I had lost faith in the seller - why didn't he tell me this before? If it has the tags with it, they will show it is an LV, and settles the question. Why didn't he say this earlier?

I just got another message from my friend saying that he may have failed to communicate properly (English being a 2nd language) and that I can still buy the watch tomorrow despite all that has happened.

So what do I do? It sounds almost too good to be true, the price is fair to good for the merchandise, but I don't know the seller at all even though the surface credentials of the seller are good, he works part-time for a reputable jeweler also and ostensibly has a reputation to protect among the jewelers in the area. I don't even know his last name right now. However he has not talked to me directly except for the once, and still is using my friend as a go-between. Do I go take a look tomorrow and try to suss out the situation further? (I used to think I could spot a fake, but after seeing some of the stuff coming across the Watch Out section I'm no longer as confidant). Or do I pass and possibly regret what may be a once-in-a-lifetime deal? Or do I buy it and gamble with the money?

Thanks for any guidance you can provide.

been known to happen? why? not even remotely worth the cost on top of a 16610. pretty sure Rolex doesent 'supply' 16610LV parts part and parcel anyways for a 16610 owner

deal sounds shady anyways

bail

[htinez]

All sounds a bit odd - particularly the change in watch description. You didn't happen to get the watch serial from the first description did you? I'd pass.

[Chozn1]

Run.

[collegeparkrolex]

I'd pass

[Vernal]

I guess it doesn't really matter, $6,500. Heck, I didn't even think of stolen. Where would someone steal get a stickered watch? I guess anything is possible.

I'm worried that my middleman friend may have caused trouble where there was none. I would have bought the watch if not for the "take it or leave it" response, which may have been caused by my friend saying I thought the watch was fake and the seller thought I was calling it a Chinatown special instead of a modded watch.

[Hairdude1]

I wouldn't do it

[Vernal]

Originally Posted by htinez

All sounds a bit odd - particularly the change in watch description. You didn't happen to get the watch serial from the first description did you? I'd pass.

Yep, this is also giving me pause. Poor communication or forging details to meet with my requests/concerns? I've not seen any pictures either - would it help if I got pics and posted them here, and tried to get the seller to hold the watch a bit longer? It's an M-serial, but that's all I've got.

[chicfarmer1]

Originally Posted by Vernal

I've not seen any pictures either - would it help if I got pics and posted them here, and tried to get the seller to hold the watch a bit longer? It's an M-serial, but that's all I've got.

Wait, you were prepared to spend thousands without yourself having seen photos? I don't get this at all.

[Bulldurham08]

as much as I think the deal is decent, you're better off staying away. I think you'll feel better that you took the safe route...Just imagine the worst case scenario and the mess it would be...Good luck either way!

[Vernal]

Originally Posted by chicfarmer1

Wait, you were prepared to spend thousands without yourself having seen photos? I don't get this at all.

I was just going to go and look at it, and decide on the condition that way. This is a face-to-face, local thing, transportation not an issue. It wouldn't even have been a wasted trip, there are other things for me to do in the area.

[bimmerboy]

I've learned in life patience will play in your favour. Keep looking I walked on numerous deals because it just didn't feel right. You will know when the right one is for you $6500 is alot of money not to be 100% sure. When I found mine I new had no remorse.

[Zed Homme]

LVs can be found just check the for sale section here. Do try to force a deal because you're afraid of missing out. Chicfarmer is giving great advice here.

I also agree with the poster who said that an 16610 to 16610LV conversion would cost significantly more than the watch is worth. I for one have never heard of that happening for this simple reason.

[chicfarmer1]

You cannot yourself authenticate, and you also don't have a seller willing to meet with you at an AD to get it checked out. In addition, there is no paper trail of its ownership. The only basis for confidence is that you know a guy who knows a guy.

Risky.

[endwahl]

Buy the seller. If his story changes, it's a red flag.

[Vernal]

Originally Posted by chicfarmer1

You cannot yourself authenticate, and you also don't have a seller willing to meet with you at an AD to get it checked out. In addition, there is no paper trail of its ownership. The only basis for confidence is that you know a guy who knows a guy.

Risky.

This is not out-of-the-question. I'm hoping for a way to salvage the situation. Both of these people have AD connections, but an AD that only sells new.

[chicfarmer1]

Originally Posted by Vernal

I'm hoping for a way to salvage the situation.

Why? If it has a whiff, walk away.

With a "take it or leave it" sort of seller, you expect a good result if you ask to meet up for authentication? Are you basing that on his gracious attitude thus far?

[bimmerboy]

Sounds like your willing to gamble good luck

[Vernal]

Originally Posted by chicfarmer1

Why? If it has a whiff, walk away.

With a "take it or leave it" sort of seller, you expect a good result if you ask to meet up for authentication? Are you basing that on his gracious attitude thus far?

Yep, I know. It's the crux of the problem, that one message that told me to F myself. He did reach out and have my friend contact me again after I passed, and my friend did apologize in case he caused this situation to explode. I can always pass on the deal if he doesn't jump through every hoop I present, but I'm not sure if there are any hoops at all that can ensure a positive outcome. An AD can't tell me if its stolen, right?

[A.Sharp]

Why not ask for the serial number from the rehaut, and call RSC. They should be able to look up the model, as produced, via serial number. Also, I would pay using pay pal, and pay the darn fee's. Make the description very clear, and you can dispute it after the fact if it is not as described.

Also I like the engraving in the rehaut as well, and it is important to me too.

ps. Word the to wise, when it starts bad, it dosnt get much better. Sometimes you are better off just washing your hands with the situation, and calling it a day.

A smooth transaction, for a little more money, with the absolute correct seller/watch, will most likely be worth it in the end.

[Watch Professor]

Walk, no, run away.

[gummy]

not a chance...

no papers...zero documentation on a recent rolex.

All that plus - "Take it or leave it, if I don't trust his word I don't have to buy the watch."

personally the deal would be over right there...

I would hold out for another one

[jedinite]

Forget it

[GradyPhilpott]

Originally Posted by jedinite

Forget it

x2

[joe100]

Buy from a trusted member here and forget about friends of friends acting as middlemen.

[Check]

There are too many inconsistencies and changes in the story for me to be interested.

I'd tell him thanks, but no thanks.

There are plenty of LVs out there. There will be another.

[Zed Homme]

Originally Posted by Vernal

Yep, I know. It's the crux of the problem, that one message that told me to F myself. He did reach out and have my friend contact me again after I passed, and my friend did apologize in case he caused this situation to explode. I can always pass on the deal if he doesn't jump through every hoop I present, but I'm not sure if there are any hoops at all that can ensure a positive outcome. An AD can't tell me if its stolen, right?

This guy told you to F yourself? Why are you still considering this?

[homathetes]

Buying the seller is a first principle of any used watch purchases I make. I'd give this guy a "D" grade at best based on what you've said. Unless you can authenticate, pass.