More on seal integrity

[Tim Wells]

I can think of no other reason for a stainless oyster case to become pitted to this extent under the case back other than failed seals. I've never seen one pitted like this before except on cheap pot metal cases, never on stainless.

This makes me wonder what series of stainless Rolex used when this watch was made. If I still had access to a laser welder this problem would be easily solved. If it were my watch I'd restore it but I doubt the owner will go for it.

[Andad]

Hmmm, not good and this is why when a watch case like this passes its pressure test I would still not swim with it as I would never know when the seal might fail.

[kilyung]

Wouldn't proper service intervals have prevented the seal failure that caused the pitting in the first place?

[padi56]

Originally Posted by kilyung

Wouldn't proper service intervals have prevented the seal failure that caused the pitting in the first place?

Have to agree I would say that sort of extreme pitting is simply down to lack of service and perhaps even owner care.

[Tim Wells]

I hope it will even seal at all. I know some people have really acidic oils in their skin but this is ridiculous.

I don't really like this style watch personally but I almost want to buy it from him just so I can restore it. But, I'd rather spend that money toward a new ultrasonic watch cleaning machine like an old Watchmaster...

[Tools]

Yes, it is the body acids that have been allowed to sit and corrode the seal seat for years..

If it were mine, I would chuck it up in a lathe and take a few cuts to level the seat and remove most of the pitting.. The seals are large enough to take up the extra cuts as long as they're not too deep..

If it had broken through the seat, another fix would be to machine out a large area, press in a new section, then machine a new seal seat...

Both are a little time consuming, but you end up with the original case back to a like-new finish..

[handsfull]

Originally Posted by Tools

If it had broken through the seat, another fix would be to machine out a large area, press in a new section, then machine a new seal seat...

Good idea/good thinking, but at that point your money ahead buying a new case. You would have to machine the area out on the case, add another seal groove with o-ring either on the case or insert (top and bottom), and then install newer ring with caseback o-ring....so you'd be adding another o-ring/point of compromise.


A typical 'service' wouldn't prevent the pitting from occurring in this instance (unless it would be every year or less), as the oring has done it's job by stopping the contaminants from entering the case. The only thing I can say would have helped in this situation would be the owner THOROUGHLY washing the watch after exposure to salt/chemicals. 5 would get you 10 someone either used this for diving (salt water) or never rinsed their watch off in the shower/hand washing.

[Tools]

Originally Posted by handsfull

Good idea/good thinking, but at that point your money ahead buying a new case. You would have to machine the area out on the case, add another seal groove with o-ring either on the case or insert (top and bottom), and then install newer ring with caseback o-ring....so you'd be adding another o-ring/point of compromise.
. . .

I agree, prevention would have been the best medicine..

However, in machine work, you would machine out the old seal area and press-fit a complete new inner ring to machine a proper o-ring groove into. The press-fit would be a permanent fix and not require any seals.

If you're doing it yourself the cost is only your own labor.. If you are paying for labor, it may be true, the labor costs may be more than a new mid-case. But when complete, you would retain the original case, serial, and provenance, and have saved a fine timepiece.. a no-brainer if it is a rare or hard to find reference..

[Tim Wells]

It was made in 1980 so would that be a hard case to find? It did come from Florida I found out but I don't think salt air would do that because of where the pits are located. I'm like you, leaning toward battery acid for skin oils.

I sure wish I could get to that laser welder again for about 30 minutes...:smoking: I have only worked on two Rolex watches, this one and my GMT. I took a laser welder to my GMT case and fixed every 45 year old blemish in it and now it looks new.

I wonder what it would take for a guy like me to be able to officially work on these education/certification wise. That's a question for another thread but I'd rather work on these than all the aircraft clocks, tank cased Elgins and Walthams in the world.

Ironically Larry, the watch bug first bit me when I lived out there in the Mo-Jave desert at George AFB. I used to hang around Mr. Wright who fixed all those old watches I used to find at swap meets in Victorville and asked him lots of questions. He gave me my first set of screwdrivers in about 1986 or so and I still have them.

[handsfull]

Originally Posted by Tools

However, in machine work, you would machine out the old seal area and press-fit a complete new inner ring to machine a proper o-ring groove into. The press-fit would be a permanent fix and not require any seals.

Working in the Elevator biz I get to work on a plethora of metals, including press fit bearings on machines/etc....but I'd be leary using a press fit piece - metal to metal contact - without an additional o-ring for water resistance. I would be skeptical if it would pass a hydro....your thoughts?

Originally Posted by Tim Wells

I sure wish I could get to that laser welder again for about 30 minutes...:smoking: I have only worked on two Rolex watches, this one and my GMT. I took a laser welder to my GMT case and fixed every 45 year old blemish in it and now it looks new.



Ironically Larry, the watch bug first bit me when I lived out there in the Mo-Jave desert at George AFB. I used to hang around Mr. Wright who fixed all those old watches I used to find at swap meets in Victorville and asked him lots of questions. He gave me my first set of screwdrivers in about 1986 or so and I still have them.

Cool story....I've never been able to use a laser welder, but I know a local business is trying to acquire one and I will be the first in line to try it out.

Pics of the GMT case or it didn't happen :)

[Rikki]

Try a puk welder half the price same results basically a mini tig welder work very well. Rikki

[kilyung]

Originally Posted by Rikki

Try a puk welder half the price same results basically a mini tig welder work very well. Rikki

Oooooo. I want one!

[bobridley]

Originally Posted by Tim Wells

It was made in 1980 so would that be a hard case to find? It did come from Florida I found out but I don't think salt air would do that because of where the pits are located. I'm like you, leaning toward battery acid for skin oils.

I sure wish I could get to that laser welder again for about 30 minutes...:smoking: I have only worked on two Rolex watches, this one and my GMT. I took a laser welder to my GMT case and fixed every 45 year old blemish in it and now it looks new.

I wonder what it would take for a guy like me to be able to officially work on these education/certification wise. That's a question for another thread but I'd rather work on these than all the aircraft clocks, tank cased Elgins and Walthams in the world.

Ironically Larry, the watch bug first bit me when I lived out there in the Mo-Jave desert at George AFB. I used to hang around Mr. Wright who fixed all those old watches I used to find at swap meets in Victorville and asked him lots of questions. He gave me my first set of screwdrivers in about 1986 or so and I still have them.

The type of metal used for these cases was # 304L Chromium-Nickel steel
My understanding is that pitting is more can be found at contact points where the metals natural oxide coating is rubbed off and thus, the elements (acidic electrolyte from our sweat or salt water) are there to affect the vulnerable metal…usually around the gaskets.

Due to natural build up from elements of the environment, period maintenance will remove the damaging elements and provide a longer life expectancy to both the case as well as the contents.

Provided below, are some before & after pictures of a 6538 that came from Italy. Obviously this Sub was greatly enjoyed, but with little periodic maintenance. As mentioned in this thread, the lazer welder can be a big help to address many needs such as with this project.

[Rikki]

Very nicely done indeed. Body skin acids are extremely corrosive I have a customer who's in his 80's and no matter what I put on the threads of his midsize gold tube and crown every 6 months or so his tube and crown is welded together by body acid and sweat. Rikki

[kanikune]

Did you fill those bumps with solder straight, or "hammered" (not native english speaker :) ) first even and then apply solder?
In my caseback there's few nasty scratches. Some "in a way challenged" previous owner have tried to open this beauty with 3-tap tool. So 3 scrathes 60 degrees apart when looking from the center.

[rmfnla]

Originally Posted by Tim Wells

I can think of no other reason for a stainless oyster case to become pitted to this extent under the case back other than failed seals. I've never seen one pitted like this before except on cheap pot metal cases, never on stainless.

This makes me wonder what series of stainless Rolex used when this watch was made. If I still had access to a laser welder this problem would be easily solved. If it were my watch I'd restore it but I doubt the owner will go for it.

I'd say that the fact that there is no corrosion inside the case means the seals did their job perfectly, in spite of going too long without replacement...

[honitel]

This happens to my watch also. I have brought it to the dealer.

[kilyung]

Originally Posted by bobridley

Provided below, are some before & after pictures of a 6538 that came from Italy. Obviously this Sub was greatly enjoyed, but with little periodic maintenance. As mentioned in this thread, the lazer welder can be a big help to address many needs such as with this project.

Very nice work, Bob!!

[mjclark32]

Great work!
Very informative thread, thanks

[mrbill2mrbill2]

Originally Posted by bobridley

The type of metal used for these cases was # 304L Chromium-Nickel steel
My understanding is that pitting is more can be found at contact points where the metals natural oxide coating is rubbed off and thus, the elements (acidic electrolyte from our sweat or salt water) are there to affect the vulnerable metal…usually around the gaskets.

Due to natural build up from elements of the environment, period maintenance will remove the damaging elements and provide a longer life expectancy to both the case as well as the contents.

Provided below, are some before & after pictures of a 6538 that came from Italy. Obviously this Sub was greatly enjoyed, but with little periodic maintenance. As mentioned in this thread, the lazer welder can be a big help to address many needs such as with this project.

All I can say is wow!! Amazing restoration.

[Tim Wells]

I eventually bought this watch as the owner just happened to buy it from a friend and come to find out, he is one of those people that are magnetic somehow and he can't wear mechanical watches. It kept quitting on him even after I had overhauled it twice. It runs fine on me and is the most accurate mechanical I've ever owned. Go figure.

I took the movement out and got access to a laser welder and filled all the pits in the gasket seat and cut them flush with the original surface height in a lathe.

I did this by coloring the seat with a blue sharpie and cut the welds down to meet the surface by having nothing but the welds taken down but with blue ink still visible on the unaffected (non-pitted) surface, then just took about .001" off to make it perfectly level.

Installed all new gaskets and put a refinished blue dial on it and have had two offers to buy the thing right off my arm in the last week. The original dial I kept with the original box and hang tag for posterity…

So, all's well that ends well as they say. There's a photo of it in the vintage forum on a thread I started called Blue Dial DateJust.

[toolr]

Curious, has anyone ever seen similar pitting with 904L cases?