all this talk of vintage GMTs....

[r111]

well. it's making think about buying one!

Long time reader, first time poster. (well first one with anything good to ask.)

I was in Tokyo two weeks ago and had some free time to watch shop. I saw a good number of vintage gmts in the case at Jack Road, and a couple at Quark, but I knew very little about these calibres so I didn't pay much attention.

Could someone recommend a book or article detailing the 1675 and the 16750. I see that these are the most common matte dial/acrylic crystal GMT when I was window shopping.

I am hoping to pick one up when I go back to Tokyo for Christmas. Otherwise, if San Francisco has a good number of vintage gmt dealers, I'll probably take a look locally.

Thanks.

[SPACE-DWELLER]

Welcome to TRF!

Here are some articles to get you started:

GMT Masters. Past and Present! CLICK! , and

Short history of the GMT! CLICK!

I am sure that our resident GMT expert, Mike, will chip in, too, with a lot of interesting details about the 1675 and 16750, plus some gorgeous pics.

Stay tuned!

[frostie]

here is another one http://doubleredseadweller.com/gmt.htm

[Tools]

Any of the GMT's would be a good choice.

Each has it's own "style" with something you might want in a watch, acrylic or sapphire crystals, different inserts, independent/non-independent hour hand.

The GMT is one of the most versatile of all the sport models..

[r111]

Thank you very much for the links!!! I have some reading to do. The tall crystal and darkened patina on matte dial looks very attractive to me.

[mike]

Welcome and congrats on choosing the GMT as your first venture into the wonderfull world of vintage.

Indeed the GMT-MASTER reference 1675 has a storied history being (as Tom states in his article) a favored reference used by the early astronaut corps.
While the Omega Speedmaster is refered to as the moonwatch, a 1675 was on the wrist of Col. John Swigert and now rests in the Rolex museum.

Either the 1675 or the latter 16750 would make an excellent choice for a vintage GMT, however each reference has it's own peculiarities.

The reference 1675 can for all practical purposes in two styles--an early gilt/gloss with a small 24. hr. hand and the latter matt white with large 24 hr. hand.
Certainly, as with all things Rolex, some overlap may occur, but in general these are the two main classifications.

Of the two the gilt/gloss is the more desirable (and of course the harder and more expensive of the two to find.)

The 1675 uses either the 1565 (till about the mid 60s) or the 1575 slow beat movement. There are those that feel this was one of the best movements Rolex ever made.

All 1675s are without a quick-set date feature which depending on your use can be a bit of a pain to set. Early examples were non-hacking with examples in the early 70s acquiring this feature.

Example 1675 gilt/gloss....1.3 mil.



Latter matt white 1675.....1.8 mil. non-hacking,



Circa 1979-80 Rolex "upgraded" the GMT with the reference 16750. Rolex incorporated the fast beat 3075 movement into the reference and gave us the first quic-set date GMT. All 16750s have the hacking feature.
The 16750 is sometimes called the "transitional" in that while it used a then new movement with QC the reference maintained the wonderfull acryllic crystal. (the MASTER did not get sapphire untill the 16700).

What is interesting about the 16750 is that during it's run Rolex made the change from a matt dial with painted markers to one od gloss with WG surrounds.
Most collectors favor the matt version with it's tall coronet.

NOTEWORTHY: For whatever reason the hands on the matt 16750s had a tendency to pitt or corrode more than others and finding one with good hands can be a task (though not impossible).

Early Matt 16750,



NOTE: My everlasting thanks to Tom for using my humble photo in his most excellent article on the transitional years.

Later gloss/WG 16750 (change occuring circa 1985 with crossover)



My sentamental favorite is the 1675 as it was my first Rolex, but from a practical aspect the 16750 is hard to beat.

Either however will have that wonderfull acryllic crystal standing proud!!

[r111]

Wow. thanks for the clinic, Mike. I've seen some of your pictures that show all of the different GMT references on it's side. Are the acrylics used in the 1675 and 16750 of the same height and are they interchangeable?

I think the 16750 maybe what I am looking for. I see 1675s going into the 7-10K range at these Japanese watch dealers. Maybe I should do some local shopping. Can anyone recommend a store or perhaps a watch show?

Lastly, do the service receipts really qualify as "papers." I'm worried about fraudulent sellers. Also an original warranty certificate must add significant resale value. In most cases, these must be lost, as I haven't seen many 1675/16750s include them in listings. Instead they come with boxes and manuals, which can be easier to replace.

[mike]

Originally Posted by r111

Wow. thanks for the clinic, Mike. I've seen some of your pictures that show all of the different GMT references on it's side. Are the acrylics used in the 1675 and 16750 of the same height and are they interchangeable?

I think the 16750 maybe what I am looking for. I see 1675s going into the 7-10K range at these Japanese watch dealers. Maybe I should do some local shopping. Can anyone recommend a store or perhaps a watch show?

Lastly, do the service receipts really qualify as "papers." I'm worried about fraudulent sellers. Also an original warranty certificate must add significant resale value. In most cases, these must be lost, as I haven't seen many 1675/16750s include them in listings. Instead they come with boxes and manuals, which can be easier to replace.

Yes. Crystals and bezel inserts are the same. (NOTE: inserts for a GMT II will not work as there is a difference in the ID and OD.)
Also: DIALS are not interchangeable due to a difference in the dial feet.

For some good dealers go here:

http://www.doubleredseadweller.com/

Note: pricing from a dealer will reflect the price of doing business, but sometimes peace of mind is worth it and most offer a warranty.

Here's another good one that gets some nice pieces,

http://www.pduggan.com/

By service "receipts" do you mean "service papers"? Receipts from a watchmaker generally aren't the same as RSC paperwork--which isn't the same as ORIGINAL paperwork as far as value of the whole package (which can add a lot).

Here's a quick pic of my 5513 with RSC paperwork and warranty (quickest one I could get to LOL!)



And yes paperwork has been known to be faked.

Is this the photo you were refering to?