MN Tudor Submariner value

[bonaire804163]

I am the proud owner of a very nice full sized Tudor Submariner watch. I purchased it around ten years ago from a seller off Ebay. Its been checked and authenticated by a Rolex authorized service shop. Its marked MN-80 which makes it I believe, a French Navy issue watch. (no decommission Papers) It is professionally ingraved in back in small letters, "Toulon/Colbert/611". I understand that this was an old French Navy Cruiser that was in service in 1980 and stationed in Toulon. The seller said he purchased it in Europe. He told me seller in Europe was a retired French Naval Diver. The watch itself is a model 94110 and has a blue face and dial. The case serial number range is 96xxxx. The dial insert was very faded and I have replaced it. I kept the original one. The face is original and is in almost perfect new condition. Square markers. It has the date feature on the face. The case is in pretty good condition. It's got some scratches from use because I wear it most every day and have used it diving. It's been professionally serviced and keeps great time. I'm somewhat confused about it's value. I see the same watch on EBay and other sites in price ranges of $900.00 to almost $5000.00. I'm not planning on selling it, but it would be nice to know what it's worth. Thanks

[shane0mack]

i'm not an expert on Tudor Subs, but it's certainly worth more than $900. Without the decom papers, you won't get full value for a Marine Nationale, even if it's the real deal. non-marine nationanale 9410/1 should run in the mid to high $2k range. can anyone back me up on that?

[jolimont]

snowflakes about 3k and upwards, could be worth more than 5 if its Mn?

[linesiders]

Bonaire - take some photos, nice crisp & clear photos (love photos ;) ).

96x,xxx would be correct range for a 1980 MN I would think - certainly points to 1980-1981 range.

These are very often faked so one must be carefull

[John in MA]

Not certain it's a genuine military issued marine Nationale sub.

You mention 3 things that make me doubt it.

1. 9411: not issued as an MN watch. Only 9401's were issued
2. Engraved with something other then the issue date which MN's were not. They were govt. issue and would not have been engraved with the cruiser that the diver was on.
3. No decomm papers


Making an assumption here but I'd say the eBay seller bought the engraved sub from the original owner, found out he was a French diver, what the engraving stood for, and added the MN date himself.

Unfortunately, IMO the 9411 is worth less then a stock 9411 due to the MN mark if not legit.

Does it have a bracelet?

[Mickey®]

Pictures. Look forward to seeing.

[Beaumont Miller II]

John I was thinking the same thing as you. I have never seen an MN with a date. That is a huge red flag for me. I bought one last year from a well respected collector and moderator of a watch forum. He is in France as well. Mine did not come with Decom Papers because it was directly purchased from the navy serviceman, and as such was never officially decommissioned. One other thing to consider is whether the watch has end link marks between the lugs. These watches were not issued with bracelets. I can tell you for sure that my MN will never see a metal bracelet. Hope this helps.

[Ross Povey]

As John says, they did't issue date model snowflakes to the French Navy.

I have some info on the site here

I'm certain (from your description) that it wasn't issue. It could, however, have been bought by a navy and been engraved.

Decom papers are not always the 'be all and end all'. Pics would be good. One thing is for sure, we are seeing more and more interesting military Tudors appearing from all over the world.

Ross

[harry in montreal]

i find the tudor subs that have the serial number engraved on the caseback or case sides to be a little more convincing that it was one of these special use Subs. i just find these MNs to be too simple to replicate and copy. i see people asking triple the mkt price for them. i just dont see it, but if i owned one, it would be very well loved. i dont want to sound like Debbie the Downer,but this is the reality with these MNs.

[bonaire804163]

This the MN 80 Tudor Submariner I described in my earler post. I was finely able to take some good photos of it. I almost had a disaster with it last week. I noticed a little fog under the plastic crystal. I took it to a Rolex service center in Portland Maine. A seal had let go.. I had it completely serviced. They put on a new plastic crystal and new seals. Pressure tested out fine after. The Swiss Time Shop Owner told me it is in great shape and keeps perfect time. Please take a look at the photos and let me know what you think about it being a MN Watch.. I may have been wrong as to what model it is. Time to ask the experts. I put the metal band on it as it came with none.

[bonaire804163]

Originally Posted by Mickey®

Pictures. Look forward to seeing.

Originally Posted by linesiders

Bonaire - take some photos, nice crisp & clear photos (love photos ;) ).

96x,xxx would be correct range for a 1980 MN I would think - certainly points to 1980-1981 range.

These are very often faked so one must be carefull

Photos are at end of thread thx

[htinez]

That's a nice looking blue snowflake so congrats on that - atleast IMHO. The MN engraving looks different (ie a bit on the rough or uneven side) when compared to other examples I've seen.

[bonaire804163]

I agree it is a little rough compared to many I have seen. Does anyone know if the engraving in these watches was done at the same location for all MN subs? The ships name on the watch looks a little better. I have not seen another like it on any other subs.

[964RS]

Originally Posted by bonaire804163

I agree it is a little rough compared to many I have seen. Does anyone know if the engraving in these watches was done at the same location for all MN subs? The ships name on the watch looks a little better. I have not seen another like it on any other subs.

Hi,

It's a nice Tudor Submariner but is not a Marine Nationale issued watch I'm afraid.

The MN never had any date watches and the engravings on the back are not as done by the MN - they look like they have been done by a complete amateur I'm afraid.

Here is how it should be:

[1675-David]

Great watch but not so great engraving. The "Toulon/Colbert/611" looks like it was stamped in with the sort of letter stamps you can get at the hardware store and the MN80 scratched on and not very well with some sort of hand engraving tool. Lovely watch but removing the engraving would be my next move.
check out this thread for directions

http://www.rolexforums.com/showthrea...move+engraving

[Vincent65]

that 'MN 80' looks like it was done by hand...

[Passionata]

great looking Sub , I wouldn t remove the engraving , nobody knows who/why engreaved so , you may need to contact with a french naval/diver forum to get more info .Might be it is a part of small batch of MN watches .

[964RS]

If you PM me the full serial number I will tell you if it is within any of my known batches. It may well have had a damaged caseback I suppose and the owner sort of hand engraved a new one....but I'm clutching at straws for you really!